Re: The Bundesliga Thread

by RealGunner Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:30 pm

Get in there 1-1 :bow:

Pls win freiburg :bow:

by rwo power Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:30 pm

Yeah, nice match, although both goalies had their weird moments. But Roman Bürki's save from Harnik was great.

by urbaNRoots Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:58 pm

Mitrovic had a stinker smh

by rwo power Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:04 pm

Ouch. 1:4 now

by RealGunner Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:10 pm

what the actual f

by rwo power Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:33 pm

Well, Freiburg were simply not clever today. And after Mitrovic got sent off, they totally fell apart.

by Hapless_Hans Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:19 pm

I forgot to say the main thing - fantastic post dost.

And I'll add another mega post lol, just to make things clear and address some things which maybe aren't adequately covered.
And to beat the horse to death hoping that people will refrain from braindead zombie horse posts in the future.

First, I should probably have said 'transfers have little to do with honour etc' instead of 'nothing'. As there is no doubt issues of pride, no-go, rivalries at play in other leagues maybe more so than in the Bundesliga. The only remotely comparable fierce rivalry in the Bundesliga is Schalke-Dortmund, maybe Werder-HSV.
However this only has an effect on attainability if the rivalry is accompanied by an relatively equal footing in the strength of the clubs.
So Chelsea might find it hard to get players from Arsenal, probably not so much so from QPR or Leeds lol.
Real and Barca are both equally huge and prestigious clubs, in addition to a longstanding political rivalry, so while players can claim they would never join the other club for honour, this is easy to follow through as they have little to gain, as well as both clubs have enough power to make the players unattainable.

It isn't like that in the Bundesliga; that's why it's so pathetic that the Bayern-Dortmund games are now trying to be billed as the German Clasico, of course only due to Dortmund's recent relative strength.

So what is underlying all this talk is of course true, in terms of overall strength, financial power and pull Bayern is unrivalled in the Bundesliga.
So in that sense it is indeed an 'one horse league' - the league is basically always ours to lose.
That this can be critizised as a weakness or flaw, ok, but it's the historic reality of the league and has nothing to do with foul play or lack of competitive mentality.

And what I cannot accept is followers of other leagues critisizing this from a position of assumed superiority or a high horse, dismissing the league, claiming this across the board affects qualities like competitiveness, suspense, or quality of games.
These argument are counterfactual or hypocritical again.

Because while it's Bayerns league to lose, doesn't mean we win it all the time.
The money advantage is quickly eclipsed in the actual competition if we're not functioning and other teams are clicking.
In all leagues there is a gap between big clubs and the rest, only in La Liga there are 2 big clubs, in PL 3-4.

As for the PL, Manchester United won the Premier League more times (13) since its existence than Bayern won the Bundesliga in the same timeframe (12).
6 different clubs have been Bundesliga winners during that time, while only 5 different clubs have benn PL winners.
While before it was between Arsenal and United, through the oil money now there are City and Chelsea, so there might be more density at the top, but still 8 different clubs have played CL since 2000, same as in the Bundesliga (9 each including lost qualis), and the top 3-4 is more consolidated than in the BuLi.
So there's no basis for calling the PL more competitive or unpredictable.

As for La Liga, there's even more reason why supporters can't claim it's more competitive as a whole.
It's basically always Real or Barca, 5 different clubs have managed in the last 20 years, but 15 times it was Barca or Real.
So while the Bundesliga might be Bayern's to lose, at least it only requires us to falter for another team to win it, while in La Liga both Real AND Barca have to falter, which is a much higher threshold. So Atletico winning it was the only time in the last 10 years another team managed.
And due to the financial structure, the gap between the big two and the rest is arguably bigger than between Bayern and the rest of Bundesliga.
So I'd say it's more likely the teams in line, Leverkusen, Dortmund, Wolfsburg, Gladbach, meaningfully close in on Bayern's monopoly in the future than la Liga teams on Barca and Real's duopoly.

Anyway all this is so people can pause and think about the qualities and idiosyncracies of different leagues without the dismissive nonsense thrown around.
Because these dismissive judgements do not really withstand factual scrutiny.

by Helmer Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:54 pm

talking about football in this thread,

today Leverkusen vs FC Köln will be a good game...Köln are not in bad form, they just need to start scoring

by urbaNRoots Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:47 pm

Bayer lucky to escape a blatant penalty and red card...

by Helmer Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:55 pm

Leverkusssen Laughing

Köln

by Helmer Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:55 pm

the amount of long balls is pissing me off

by VivaStPauli Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:56 pm

So for Neverkusen Bellarabi isn't as useless as for the NT... Nice...

by VivaStPauli Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:56 pm

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:the amount of long balls is pissing me off

Go Bundesliga, das Deutschenhoofen!

by urbaNRoots Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:59 pm

What the hell was Horn doing there...

Feeling sorry for Köln, they could be leading 2-0 with a man advantage if not for a useless referee.

by Hapless_Hans Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:08 pm

Jesus Christ. Pep is so *bleep* good, it's unreal.

by urbaNRoots Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:17 pm

Looks like Schalke are doing another "Wolfsburg"!!! Laughing

Calhanoglu with another freekick 2-1

by rwo power Sat Nov 29, 2014 4:21 pm

By the way, RWO won in the Regionalliga West today. We're 4th now, only 4 points behind the leader. Maybe we can manage to win the RL after all to get into the promotion round! cheers

by Hapless_Hans Sat Nov 29, 2014 4:29 pm

Bad 2nd half.
Again, we forgot to make the 2:0 in the first, but we were so dominant and created chances at will that apparently the players forgot that we hadn't made it and stopped playing.
Could've been a draw now. So many wasted opportunities, Lewa missed 3-4 sitters all on his own. Chancentod Proud