Re: CL Team Of The Matchday

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:07 am

Kick wrote:No Matic and no Willian, no party.

I haven't seen Porto or Athletic to comment on Matic but Nani and Messi had better performances than Willian IMO.

by Harmonica Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:08 am

izzy wrote:
Harmonica wrote:Actually I'm too buzy being rational.

I don't think that's the correct term to describe what you're doing.........

Irrational people surely would think so, which actually proves my point. :coffee:

by izzy Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:13 am

Harmonica wrote:Irrational people surely would think so, which actually proves my point.

I'm sure they would......... because it's completely rational to use stats from two different games......... to judge a players performance......... ignoring everything else.

Uh huh. Laughing

by Harmonica Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:15 am

izzy wrote:
Harmonica wrote:Irrational people surely would think so, which actually proves my point.

I'm sure they would......... because it's completely rational to use stats from two different games......... to judge a players performance......... ignoring everything else.

Uh huh.

You aren't wrong in just one level, which is the funniest thing.

by izzy Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:18 am

Harmonica wrote: You aren't wrong in just one level, which is the most funny thing.

Uh huh........

You keep doing what you're doing. Laughing

You are the guy who argued that Firmino is a Top 10 player in the world.......

You do what you need to do to keep yourself going..... Laughing

by Harmonica Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:20 am

izzy wrote:
Harmonica wrote: You aren't wrong in just one level, which is the most funny thing.

Uh huh........

You keep doing what you're doing.

You are the guy who argued that Firmino is a Top 10 player in the world.......

You do what you need to do to keep yourself going.....

Oh what now? Laughing

Weren't we talking Matic. What next, I thought 11-12 La Liga was scandal of the ages?

by izzy Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:25 am

Harmonica wrote:Oh what now? Weren't we talking Matic. What next, I thought 11-12 La Liga was scandal of the ages?

It's the within the same context................ Suspect

Unless, you're going to tell me that based on the stats, Firmino is better than Matic?

Using stats and ignoring everything else to judge a players quality............

But, you keep fighting the good fight. Laughing

Like I said, never seen anything like it. Laughing

by Harmonica Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:29 am

izzy wrote:
Harmonica wrote:Oh what now? Weren't we talking Matic. What next, I thought 11-12 La Liga was scandal of the ages?

It's the within the same context................
Unless, you're going to tell me that based on the stats, Firmino is better than Matic?

Using stats and ignoring everything else to judge a players quality............

But, you keep fighting the good fight.

Like I said, never seen anything like it.

So what you are actually telling with most intriguingly bizarre way, that statistics aren't telling the story here, Matic actually was better against Schalke, than Maribor?

Matic individually

Maribor 1:1 - Schalke 0:5 - Stat

1 - 0 - Goals
1 - 0 - Chances Created
100 - 86 - Touches
91 - 93 - Passing %
10 - 6 - Tackles
2 - 2 - Interceptions
2 - 0 - Clearances
1 - 0 - Blocked Shots
9.16 - 7.26 - Rating

I'm putting the corn on the stove waiting the argument for that. Laughing

by izzy Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:39 am

Harmonica wrote:So what you are actually telling with most intriguingly bizarre way, that statistics aren't telling the story here, Matic actually was better against Schalke, than Maribor?

Matic individually

Maribor 1:1 - Schalke 0:5 - Stat

1 - 0 - Goals
1 - 0 - Chances Created
100 - 86 - Touches
91 - 93 - Passing %
10 - 6 - Tackles
2 - 2 - Interceptions
2 - 0 - Clearances
1 - 0 - Blocked Shots
9.16 - 7.26 - Rating

I'm putting the corn on the stove waiting the argument for that.

I didn't know I had to be so basic, I thought my point was clear enough..... seems I wrong.

I never said he was better against Schalke than he was against Maribor statistically.

My point was, they were two very different types of games played. Ignoring everything and just going by the stats is odd.

That's why I suggested you WATCH the games. Laughing

I don't know how much more basic I go here. Laughing

by Hapless_Hans Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:44 am

izzy wrote:
Harmonica wrote:Actually when we compare Matic individually

Maribor 1:1 - Schalke 0:5 - Stat

1 - 0 - Goals
1 - 0 - Chances Created
100 - 86 - Touches
91 - 93 - Passing %
10 - 6 - Tackles
2 - 2 - Interceptions
2 - 0 - Clearances
1 - 0 - Blocked Shots
9.16 - 7.26 - Rating

It's kind of obvious and big difference individually.

Did you really just compare a 1-1 game to a 0-5?

Wow.......

No he didn't, he compared two columns with 10 numerical values each, and that gave him all the knowledge he needs about a player's performance Laughing

by Harmonica Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:48 am

izzy wrote:
Harmonica wrote:So what you are actually telling with most intriguingly bizarre way, that statistics aren't telling the story here, Matic actually was better against Schalke, than Maribor?

Matic individually

Maribor 1:1 - Schalke 0:5 - Stat

1 - 0 - Goals
1 - 0 - Chances Created
100 - 86 - Touches
91 - 93 - Passing %
10 - 6 - Tackles
2 - 2 - Interceptions
2 - 0 - Clearances
1 - 0 - Blocked Shots
9.16 - 7.26 - Rating

I'm putting the corn on the stove waiting the argument for that.

I didn't know I had to be so basic, I thought my point was clear enough..... seems I wrong.

I never said he was better against Schalke than he was against Maribor statistically.

My point was, they were two very different types of games played. Ignoring everything and just going by the stats is odd.

That's why I suggested you WATCH the games.

I don't know how much more basic I go here.

So wait, you actually didn't think Matic was better against Schalke than Maribor? How bizarre twist. Laughing

So what we now have to assume your point being, example, at any level, scoring your teams only goal and getting a point, aren't better than not scoring in a 5-0 rout?

by izzy Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:58 am

Harmonica wrote:So wait, you actually didn't think Matic was better against Schalke than Maribor? How bizarre twist.

So what we now have to assume your point being, example, at any level, scoring your teams only goal and getting a point, aren't better than not scoring in a 5-0 rout?

Well, seems I was wrong again...... I have to take it down a level again. Laughing

I never said he was better or worse against either of the teams (seriously, read it helps).

I merely questioned your logic for saying that he performed better against Maribor than Schalke based simply based on the stats.

You talk about being rational.......... yet you ignore every other facet and context of the game except for the stats.

You didn't even watch games, yet you're going to tell me he performed better in one of the game solely based on his stats? Laughing

You didn't even watch the games, yet you are evaluating a players performance...... rofl

Really? Scoring a goal and earning a point? By that logic, Van Persie had an amazing game against Chelsea this season...... Laughing

Keep doing what you're doing dude. It's funny.

by Harmonica Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:03 pm

izzy wrote:
Harmonica wrote:So wait, you actually didn't think Matic was better against Schalke than Maribor? How bizarre twist.

So what we now have to assume your point being, example, at any level, scoring your teams only goal and getting a point, aren't better than not scoring in a 5-0 rout?

Well, seems I was wrong again...... I have to take it down a level again.

I never said he was better or worse against either of the teams (seriously, read it helps).

I merely questioned your logic for saying that he performed better against Maribor than Schalke based simply based on the stats.

You talk about being rational.......... yet you ignore every other facet and context of the game except for the stats.

You didn't even watch games, yet you're going to tell me he performed better in one of the game solely based on his stats?

You didn't even watch the games, yet you are evaluating a players performance......

Really? Scoring a goal and earning a point? By that logic, Van Persie had an amazing game against Chelsea this season......

Keep doing what you're doing dude. It's funny.

So you confirm that scoring a goal in 1-1 game isn't better, at any level, even numerical, than not scoring in a 5-0 rout? Laughing

See my point about irrational people saying that I'm not rational? Well logically you don't see it. Razz

by izzy Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:09 pm

Harmonica wrote:So you confirm that scoring a goal in 1-1 game isn't better, at any level, even numerical, than not scoring in a 5-0 rout?

See my point about irrational people saying that I'm not rational? Well rationally you don't see it.

See, now look who's being irrational.....? Laughing

So, scoring a goal in the 1-1 game and his stats, means he played better? That's what you're going with? You're sticking with this type of logic? Laughing

Wow....... My God. Laughing

Ok then..... Whatever you say...

by Harmonica Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:14 pm

izzy wrote:
Harmonica wrote:So you confirm that scoring a goal in 1-1 game isn't better, at any level, even numerical, than not scoring in a 5-0 rout?

See my point about irrational people saying that I'm not rational? Well rationally you don't see it.

See, now look who's being irrational.....?

So, scoring a goal in the 1-1 game and his stats, means he played better? That's what you're going with? You're sticking with this type of logic?

Wow....... My God.

Ok then..... Whatever you say...

You said I can't use statistics in different games to rationally evaluate performance. I gave an example, that you now agree (read between the lines), of comparing rationally and statistically player in different game? That is now in contradiction of your original argument, which proves my point about rationality of statistical comparison and accepts it

Well done.

Laughing

by Hapless_Hans Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:17 pm

Izzy, for Harmonica there is no difference between 'statistically better' and 'better'.

He thinks 'comparing players individually' is congruent with comparing a rather small selection of statistical markers without any other sort of knowledge, context or observation.

He thinks a few numbers gathered and produced according to a certain method describe the whole of reality.

He's the kind of guy who would run screaming from a movie theater if he saw a train approaching on the screen.

by Harmonica Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:18 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:Izzy, for Harmonica there is no difference between 'statistically better' and 'better'.

I've never said, or thought that, so don't but words in my mouth, or my mind. Thanks.

by Hapless_Hans Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:22 pm

Harmonica wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:Izzy, for Harmonica there is no difference between 'statistically better' and 'better'.
I've never said, or thought that, so don't but words in my mouth, or my mind. Thanks.

Harmonica wrote:
izzy wrote:I never said he was better against Schalke than he was against Maribor statistically.

My point was, they were two very different types of games played. Ignoring everything and just going by the stats is odd.
So wait, you actually didn't think Matic was better against Schalke than Maribor?

by Forza Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:32 pm

Harmonica wrote:

I'd like to highlight something severely wrong with whatever process is used to arrive at this result.

The CBs, Mbeba & Berezoutski, are clearly only included because they scored goals. They'll do wonders for your fantasy team, but does that make them good CBs? Absolutely not. How about including some defenders who are good at defending. :coffee:

by Harmonica Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:32 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
Harmonica wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:Izzy, for Harmonica there is no difference between 'statistically better' and 'better'.
I've never said, or thought that, so don't but words in my mouth, or my mind. Thanks.

Harmonica wrote:
izzy wrote:I never said he was better against Schalke than he was against Maribor statistically.

My point was, they were two very different types of games played. Ignoring everything and just going by the stats is odd.
So wait, you actually didn't think Matic was better against Schalke than Maribor?

How on earth are you associating those to that? Laughing

by Hapless_Hans Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:44 pm

Harmonica wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:
Harmonica wrote:
I've never said, or thought that, so don't but words in my mouth, or my mind. Thanks.

Harmonica wrote:
So wait, you actually didn't think Matic was better against Schalke than Maribor?
How on earth are you associating those to that?

The sad truth is that quite obviously I have a better grasp at what you say AND think than you yourself, and it's not like I can read your mind or anything, obviously.
It's quite simply that you can't seem to read with your mind Sad

by Harmonica Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:03 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
Harmonica wrote:

How on earth are you associating those to that?

The sad truth is that quite obviously I have a better grasp at what you say AND think than you yourself, and it's not like I can read your mind or anything, obviously.
It's quite simply that you can't seem to read with your mind

Then maybe I can use you to type messages my here? Too bad you aren't really a rational, or clear minded person, so thoughts will always be different. But nice try definitely. Laughing

by Hapless_Hans Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:30 pm

I can type your messages for you no problem, if you pay me, say 10 cent a word.
I'll promise to keep you the rationalest of the rationalest posters there is, I'm bookmarking whoscored as we speak Molenation

by Harmonica Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:36 pm

Still haven't heard a single viable reason, why player performance in two different games can't be compared statistically. And we are currently clocking two pages of sand in vagina since. Laughing

by Hapless_Hans Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:47 pm

well obviously player performances in two different games can be compared statistically. I don't see how that can be argued.

It's not that hard either, the way you do it only requires to know whether 1 > 0 etc

by Tomwin Lannister Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:49 pm

Just fell asleep after accidentally reading this thread.

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