so...is this still mourinho's madrid ?

ok haps lets go again, first of all madrid problems are self inflicted, and could've all been fix long before mou, but since mou had the clout, flo just let mou do what needed to be done for a while,don't think axing valdano was part of it(being a douche maybe?), so if you all wanna act like its was genius, to buy the players the manager actually wanted without over spending and shipping out the deadwood(with respect of course), then all power to you.

other than  r16 exits, madrid as always went on long winning streaks, just out talenting the opposition in la liga, until the team face a similar level or higher, same happened with mou beat who we were supposed too based on talent, but lose in footy and tactics, when it came to crunch time, there is no 2 ways about it.

mou was a massive douche, always blaming someone for his shit tactics, who defends after going 1-0 in 2 mins ffs just to lose 1-3 at home, how is that bringing the winning mentality back? again half you jokers posting these nonsense arguments doesn't even have a clue, or watching these games, conceding midfield purposely to hoof is not a winning mentality get a grip ffs

carlo is showing what a winning mentality actually is, going a goal down in 3 mins in a clasico, and the players wasn't even flustered, just continue to FOLLOW THE SYSTEM and eventually won properly and convincingly, sorry if i don't see the FREAKING SIMILARITIES

lastly copa and league wins im thankful, doesn't change the fact copa win under mou was horrible, the league win was a counters feast and awfulness i mean possession play smh, its clear that carlo would have gotten more out mou players, than "hey lets watch cr play for 90 mins and everybody else park it"

also what happened too mou never leave anything to build upon? why did that suddenly changed now that carlo won? this is why this discussion is idiocy, cause if carlo flopped, you would all say "it wasn't mou fault in the first place and the players sucked", im not stupid brah nor i need to play the games with you all, i have eyes and i know BS when i see it, mou left nothing on the pitch, and off the pitch he did what needed to be done i respect him for that flo shield or not

chad4401 wrote:ok haps lets go again, first of all madrid problems are self inflicted, and could've all been fix long before mou, but since mou had the clout, flo just let mou do what needed to be done for a while,don't think axing valdano was part of it(being a douche maybe?), so if you all wanna act like its was genius, to buy the players the manager actually wanted without over spending and shipping out the deadwood(with respect of course), then all power to you.

other than  r16 exits, madrid as always went on long winning streaks, just out talenting the opposition in la liga, until the team face a similar level or higher, same happened with mou beat who we were supposed too based on talent, but lose in footy and tactics, when it came to crunch time, there is no 2 ways about it.

mou was a massive douche, always blaming someone for his shit tactics, who defends after going 1-0 in 2 mins ffs just to lose 1-3 at home, how is that bringing the winning mentality back? again half you jokers posting these nonsense arguments doesn't even have a clue, or watching these games, conceding midfield purposely to hoof is not a winning mentality get a grip ffs

carlo is showing what a winning mentality actually is, going a goal down in 3 mins in a clasico, and the players wasn't even flustered, just continue to FOLLOW THE SYSTEM and eventually won properly and convincingly, sorry if i don't see the FREAKING SIMILARITIES

lastly copa and league wins im thankful, doesn't change the fact copa win under mou was horrible, the league win was a counters feast and awfulness i mean possession play smh, its clear that carlo would have gotten more out mou players, than "hey lets watch cr play for 90 mins and everybody else park it"

also what happened too mou never leave anything to build upon? why did that suddenly changed now that carlo won? this is why this discussion is idiocy, cause if carlo flopped, you would all say "it wasn't mou fault in the first place and the players sucked", im not stupid brah nor i need to play the games with you all, i have eyes and i know BS when i see it, mou left nothing on the pitch, and off the pitch he did what needed to be done i respect him for that shield or not

You're mostly right, but you have to give Mourinho credit for the good he did, because in his first 2 season he did more good than harm. Like I said b4, if we hadn't had the Barca match between the ones vs Bayern, we would have won La Decima that year, a year which we played good football.

im not discrediting what mou did, im just saying a lot of the thing he is being praised for, as been well documented long before he took over, and could've been fixed if the board had just backed away, instead of secretly dick measuring and forcing managers to deal with player power bs, from past it players who were the core of a lot of problem for a long time.

as far as footy any pub team can park it and counter, what the team needed to do win was stop searching for excuses and play a proper game win or lose

as far as im concerned if mou sent the team out to win, and the team got destroyed, i wouldn't have no problems, but your sending the to draw or grab a 1-0, the team always and i mean always loses when mou does that, the fact is his cowardly tactics cost us those games, more than anything, if he wins its a master class but lose its indeed negative garbage that team worth 300 mil shouldn't be doing, this is Madrid not chelsea or inter, we weren't some shit club ffs( with respect to inter)

oh and one more thing, pelle games vs barca>>>>>>>>>>>>>mou with lesser players, pelle could've easily gotten us past lyon as well, but in that season the players themselves failed pelle, cause flo didn't give a shit about pelle and that translated to the players, what if pelle got us past r16 and won a game against barca, you guys would've nothing to back up any of these claims, matter a fact what if flo listened to pelle and kept robben and sneijder, for 1 more season you know the season they both went to the cl finals , then what?

Hope we smash you *bleep* in the CL. Tired of the history revisionism in this thread. Only Valk is talking sense the rest of you need to be brought down a peg.

chad4401 wrote:

mou was a massive douche, always blaming someone for his shit tactics, who defends after going 1-0 in 2 mins ffs just to lose 1-3 at home, how is that bringing the winning mentality back? again half you jokers posting these nonsense arguments doesn't even have a clue, or watching these games, conceding midfield purposely to hoof is not a winning mentality get a grip ffs

First part I agree with. Second part is just sour grapes. Simply stating that Mou's style/mentality is not a winning mentality contradicts the reality of things. I get it if you don't like Mou's style but to discredit him after winning what he's won is just contradictory.

If you want an example of a non winning mentality you should talk more about Casillas during Mou's last season. It's reflected even today.

madrid vs chelsea is a win win for mourinho .

if he wins he wins .
and if he losses , he'll get credit for ancelotti's work at madrid

farfan wrote:madrid vs chelsea is a win win for mourinho .

if he wins he wins .
and if he losses , he'll get credit for ancelotti's work at madrid

Depends. If Ancelotti proves his "winning mentality" to Mou than I'd say otherwise. And if Ancelotti loses than I guess Ancelotti must somehow have more winning mentality, anyway.

But that's none of my business.

Lord Awesome wrote:

chad4401 wrote:

mou was a massive douche, always blaming someone for his shit tactics, who defends after going 1-0 in 2 mins ffs just to lose 1-3 at home, how is that bringing the winning mentality back? again half you jokers posting these nonsense arguments doesn't even have a clue, or watching these games, conceding midfield purposely to hoof is not a winning mentality get a grip ffs

First part I agree with. Second part is just sour grapes. Simply stating that Mou's style/mentality is not a winning mentality contradicts the reality of things. I get it if you don't like Mou's style but to discredit him after winning what he's won is just contradictory.

If you want an example of a non winning mentality you should talk more about Casillas during Mou's last season. It's reflected even today.

this argument was about mou madrid in relations to carlo madrid, and its clear has day the teams are no where near close at anything

the team is far more disciplined and organised under carlo, rm defends better with 8 and 1 of the top 2 pressuring each side, than throwing everybody behind the ball and countering for 20 times or more a game, failing 90% of them and can barely string 2 passes together in possession really?

mou is a winner and i actually liked him a lot before he managed rm and actually had no problem with him being appointed, after watching these games especially the second season which is supposed to be his best, the team still had all the same problems from the first season and still showed again in the 3rd

im sorry if im sour about getting out played every week by shit la liga sides, just out talent them thanks to our lord cr7 smh, look at how carlo got the team playing properly it doesn't even matter if cr plays or not, dont debate me on this you won't win cause a team costing near half billion doesn't need 1 player to carry it, no bleep ego footy too, thanks carlo

Lord Awesome wrote:

farfan wrote:madrid vs chelsea is a win win for mourinho .

if he wins he wins .
and if he losses , he'll  get credit for ancelotti's work at madrid

Depends. If Ancelotti proves his "winning mentality" to Mou than I'd say otherwise. And if Ancelotti loses than I guess Ancelotti must somehow have more winning mentality, anyway.

But that's none of my business.

as long as carlo sends the team out to win and got out smarted all fair tbh, not like pep turned shit after losing to carlo (very badly btw),  he went out to win the game and lost, but when you go for a draw and lose that not winning mentality smh

Gil wrote:Hope we smash you *bleep* in the CL. Tired of the history revisionism in this thread. Only Valk is talking sense the rest of you need to be brought down a peg.

say the guys who is clearly relying on hoofball and hazard running around in circles ghosting, needs the 10 times european champs who actually SMASHED super bayern and the team that SMASHED YOU, "needs to be brought down a peg" stfu gil

valk praises anything that cool, but that him, and i have learned to except that

Just for the record, for me winning mentally is not limited to just going on the attack. Every tactic has it's purpose to influence the game. Pretty sure every manager wants to win, and Mou is no exception.

I never rated Pep, tbh, and I still don't. Too predictable. Just a Wenger who happened to win CL's based on ref decisions. Not a bad manager, mind you. Just not on par with Mou, Simione, or Ancelotti.

LA i agreed with what you said, whole heartedly and if it was any other team, i wouldn't really have a problem with mou style obviously

but when i see a game open for the taking he has to adapt and just seal the win, than good old defend the 1-0 and hit em on the counter, rm simply just didn't have the players for seize footy tactics, the players can put in a shift but not every week against weak opponents they know they should be dominating, this was the root of all the problems

mou is excellent and im sure if his ego wasn't so big, he could've won more with rm, instead of forcing everything and blocking off all opinions, valdano anyone?

Just out of interest, how many people are there that actually claim the CL win under Ancelotti should be credited to a large part to Mourinho?
Seems to me a bit like this thread is fighting straw men, or did I miss some heated discussions there.

There were no problems for the first 2 years really...  i just didn't like Mou and i hated how we played crap football against the better teams just to win.  We had enough talent to win without resorting to underdog football.

Mou's 3rd year... he just lost the plot.  He likes to put everyone under pressure and you can't do that long term when everyone on the team is an established star.  They'll just have enough.  And then when we started losing... he blamed everyone but himself and threw players under the bus.  That was crap.

Mou likes to take all the credit and defer all the criticism on his players.  He's the most selfish and egomaniac manager i have ever seen.

Mou getting rid of Valdano was a positive in my book. The only real negative's I saw in Mou while at RM was the eye poking of Villanova and how he said Adan was more than Casillas.

Hapless_Hans wrote:Just out of interest, how many people are there that actually claim the CL win under Ancelotti should be credited to a large part to Mourinho?
Seems to me a bit like this thread is fighting straw men, or did I miss some heated discussions there.

I believe only some credit. Same with Pep & Rikjaard. Team already jelled and all.

sportsczy wrote:There were no problems for the first 2 years really...  i just didn't like Mou and i hated how we played crap football against the better teams just to win.  We had enough talent to win without resorting to underdog football.

Mou's 3rd year... he just lost the plot.  He likes to put everyone under pressure and you can't do that long term when everyone on the team is an established star.  They'll just have enough.  And then when we started losing... he blamed everyone but himself and threw players under the bus.  That was crap.

Mou likes to take all the credit and defer all the criticism on his players.  He's the most selfish and egomaniac manager i have ever seen.

At least that's the image he likes give. Selfish is the correct word, actually. Though he did expose his players to spur them to do better. Didn't work. Split grew larger. The dressing room already split, fans split. It was a fiasco in the end. And even then he got them to a 3rd Semi with all the commotion going on and such. Managed to give Dortmund a big gulp towards the end.

haps i have seen it before this thread, just felt like joining the debate this time, as i said its not like hate the guy or discrediting in him, just can't see his influence on the team at all

@sports winning is nice and all but its how we won was the problem, always as been about that tbh, before mou and after him, and the moment the team stopped winning shit hit the fans hard cause of his ego, if he tried to work with the player more, no doubt he would've left in a better light, its not like flo wanted to fire him, he got forced into it or chaos

I have to say though, at all his other teams players have a sometimes very close and admiring relation to Mourinho.
Think about Chelsea. Think Ibrahimovic.

So if he got along and defended/protected his other teams and players, yet didn't get along, decided to publicly call out etc players at Madrid, maybe it's not Mourinho that was the problem

Maybe Real's dressing room was quite simply full of poses

Hapless_Hans wrote:I have to say though, at all his other teams players have a sometimes very close and admiring relation to Mourinho.
Think about Chelsea. Think Ibrahimovic.

So if he got along and defended/protected his other teams and players, yet didn't get along, decided to publicly call out etc players at Madrid, maybe it's not Mourinho that was the problem

Maybe Real's dressing room was quite simply full of poses

That's exactly what I believe. I think certain players wern't giving it all they had due to the split between Casillas & Mou. Mou tried to get rid of that by singling them out. Didn't work either. RM flopped. Mou flopped automatically.

Should've mention Xabi Alonso trying to quell the team back together. Did what he could.

haps you can't compare madrid to chelsea or inter, its not the same even if he had won the 10th, the dressing room issues would appear sooner or later

carlo showed how you manage a team of superstars filled with egos, still get them to work hard and play for each other((glory hunters gets benched or warned, except cr), while improving individually some more than others, they step up as a whole now, cause he acknowledges all of them equally and the players love him for it and they display it publicly, sometimes he is too easy on them, but the players usually shape up sooner or later and get with the program, the players clearly respect and believe what carlo is telling them

also you really think carlo would have said his cat comment? mou loves singling out a player for issues instead on taking it on the chin and working with what he got, look at mata not a work horse? gtfo, yeah sure the players really loves him a lot

Hapless_Hans wrote:I have to say though, at all his other teams players have a sometimes very close and admiring relation to Mourinho.
Think about Chelsea. Think Ibrahimovic.

So if he got along and defended/protected his other teams and players, yet didn't get along, decided to publicly call out etc players at Madrid, maybe it's not Mourinho that was the problem

Maybe Real's dressing room was quite simply full of poses

That's not really true.  Inter and Chelsea are not elite clubs... their fans and management are willing to compromise game quality and behavior in exchange for winning.  True elite clubs like Madrid, Barca, Bayern, Man U, etc. will have none of that...  their club has a culture that players/managers need to adjust to and not the other way around.

In the end, Mou's problem was that he was not bigger than some of the players and definitely not the club at Madrid.  He had to convince and justify his actions...  needed diplomacy.  He completely failed.

That's why i think Mou can never manage at a truly big club.  It's impossible unless he compromises some of his traits.

The underdog mentality and constant defiance are not acceptable at these clubs. They are protecting a brand first.

Except that I would add that Man Utd fans these days would be sobbing with joy if they had Mourinho, I think you have a point there.

sportsczy wrote:
That's not really true.  Inter and Chelsea are not elite clubs... their fans and management are willing to compromise game quality and behavior in exchange for winning.  True elite clubs like Madrid, Barca, Bayern, Man U, etc. will have none of that...  their club has a culture that players/managers need to adjust to and not the other way around.

In the end, Mou's problem was that he was not bigger than some of the players and definitely not the club at Madrid.  He had to convince and justify his actions...  needed diplomacy.  He completely failed.

That's why i think Mou can never manage at a truly big club.  It's impossible unless he compromises some of his traits.

The underdog mentality and constant defiance are not acceptable at these clubs.  They are protecting a brand first.

Porto's a true elite club, considering the above standards mentioned, and Mou won his first CL with Porto. I don't think Mou's problem with RM had to do with RM being elite. He actually changed RM philosophy in that to become an elite a team must always go for the win not matter what. And Mou certainly fits that bill.

Come on. Porto is not an elite club.

sportsczy wrote:Come on.  Porto is not an elite club.

I thought the same as you did when I read Inter & Chelsea weren't elite.

However, I really do treat Porto as an elite club mainly because they've proven they are. They always seem to go toe to toe against everyone no matter who it is. And they even have their own style which they never seem to betray and have been successful. For me at least, they're in the elite category, deservingly.