so...is this still mourinho's madrid ?

Gil wrote:. The man finished 3rd behind Atleti and Tata ffs.

mourinho finished 15 points behind roura and trophyless  .

...........but he gets credit for a champions league win the year after ?

shtaap it bru .

this forum and hype i swear idk why i even bother, no matter how you jokers spin it, mou plays shit footy that it, he would've sold benzema if the club let him, so he could buy ade or similar for his shit tactics

mou always tries to single out a player or ref for loses, cause his bus parking losses was so embarrassing for the club and the players, so much they turned on him and now they are extremely happy under carlo, he is humble and actually looks like he trying to develop a system that doesn't revolve around out talenting you opponents.

carlo wasn't getting fired gil, stop being stupid for half day and think, why fire the first manager to finally get us to a final, after MOU FLOPPED 3 TIMES IN A ROW? regardless of the league, which was lost on 4 pts and tied barca on points, nth is wrong with that this forum smh

mou's team = bus parking, zero organization,pass to cr every chance you get and bash your players when things get tough, carlo should be grateful to mou cause? fanboys can't admit he flopped on the biggest stage for the biggest club?

chad4401 wrote:this forum and hype i swear idk why i even bother,
[...]
fanboys can't admit he flopped on the biggest stage for the biggest club?

Yeah it's really not like you're any better

First of all, whether you like Mourinho or not, he surely doesn't have anything to prove, least of all how he can do in the CL.

Secondly. Your circus of a club before Mourinho went out 6 TIMES IN A ROW in the last 16 round. Mourinho came and brought you to three semis in a row. Or as you call it, "flopped three times in a row"
In his second year he won the league, breaking the run of arguably one of the strongest teams there ever was.

Now of course he doesn't deserve 'credit' for the CL win, he wasn't manager anymore, but to claim he has no part in the development of Real Madrid, what he did has had no influence on what you are now is pretty ignorant and, yes, ungrateful as well.

But then, it's not a surprise you can't give him any credit for anything, as apparently

chad4401 wrote: he would've sold benzema if the club let him,

Mourinho should get credit for burning the old house down. The club needed that from him and he was able to lift up the club on the European level and he had to do it while competing against Pepcelona which wasn't an easy thing to do. Mou deserves some credit from Madrid fans for his contributions.

Having said that the current team is Carlo's. The way we play is different and if there are similarities it's because the core players have stayed the same.

In short Carlo built the shiny mansion that is Madrid atm but Mou had to tear down the derelict crackhouse that was standing in it's place a few years before.

Carlo wouldn't have won the CL this early if it wasn't for Mou's work. At the same time, Mou wouldn't have won the CL if he had stayed for a million years.

In other words, if it weren't for Mou, Carlo would've needed a few more years until he wins the CL, if he wins at all.

i dont think there is much of the difference tactically apart from Alonso that replaced by kroos. The main difference is their approach mouriho is programmatic but sometimes over analyzing is his undoing. Carlo gives their team much needed confidence by him relax attitude. at the end carlo is a magician, mou isnt

haps i said mou is an elite manager and a winner, but he still flopped, and im pretty sure pelle could've gotten us past r16, if higs didn't pull the greatest choke job in cl history , lets not forget calderon rubbish signings, and past it players, but nope great mou saved us, after spending some more money and getting proper players, oh and benzema the cats saved his ass away from lyon , in the r16 funny dat and copa semi too, and he left benzema out of the cl semi and copa finals cause he is a douche who scapegoated him in the first place, put a twist on that

anyway lets play dumb, and applaud mou for consistently conceding the midfield to even the bottom la liga sides, im not saying anything new here, i have seen rm winning 5-0 and the game always felt close that a fact, week in and week out, goals can't hide the truth, any rm fan says otherwise is lying, and lets not forget when teams park the bus on us , most dreadful possession play ever ffs.

mou was clearly wasting the team cause he is limited to hoofball, even THE PLAYERS THEMSELVES got sick of it and his blame games, what more proof do you want smfh, he flopped get over it

carlo madrid in his first season is much better and it has nothing to do with mou, because carlo know how to adapt to his players and try things, until he got what he wanted, a flexible 4-3-3 and 4-4-2 transition, dangerous in possession and counters, mainly the team doesn't have to rely on cr and can play without him, the intent is clear and little to no confusion, any games lost now is on the players, unless they get over played and tired, that on carlo, but not the system, you know a system the team never had under mou ever!!!

haps i watch rm every week for years brah, you can't tell me anything about the team or its problems, and im not a sheep I watch games clearly  

ps out talenting team with madrid is nothing special

Mourinho didn't flop in the first 2 years. In his first season he won the CDR against one of the greatest teams in history, and in his second we won the league, beat Barca in the Nou Camp and were unlucky to not win the CL. In 11-12 we played very good football too. Then we started the 12-13 season great, won the SuperCopa against Barca while at the Bernabeu we should have won by 4-5 goals, but then I don't know what happened. He flopped in his last season, I agree, mainly because he lost the dressing room.

firstly im thankful for copa and the league, but facts are facts, the team played like shit most games only looked good on the counter and struggled massively against any team that at a similar level or deployed the proper tactics out park us , only thing anybody can point at is goals, tell me about our big games performances, matter fact when was the last time the team dominated a team like bayern under mou? mou goes up 1 goal defending for the remainder of the game, until the game is lost wow magic, wtf am i reading

said it once and i will say it again, you guys praise anything as great if the person is hyped enough, funny how carlo won the 10th(destroying super bayern) and half you jokers were ready to pounce on him(cause he backed a certain player clowns   ), but mou ultra shit footy is worth defending , keep proving me right

oh and mou did the same against atleti, try to defend until he eventually lost the game........

1 last thing to destroy this thread, when carlo tried 4-2-3-1(start of the season and after khedira injurey) the team played the worst, guess which formation the team played under mou the most? , and how often did mou use the 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 for a extended period ever? what? bringing winning mentality back? by defending to death at the slightest glimmer of hope..... just to lose in the end

chad4401 wrote:

mou's team = bus parking, zero organization,pass to cr every chance you get and bash your players when things get tough, carlo should be grateful to mou cause? fanboys can't admit he flopped on the biggest stage for the biggest club?

Why is it hard to understand, RM made three straight semi final appearance under Mou. That is undoubted experience and achievement. As they say you learn a lot from defeats, you can't seriously say that had no effects on the players. Don't underestimate experience, because it had a lot to do with your CL victory.

Carlo is a much better fit for Madrid, even before Mou took over Madrid i didn't think it was a good fit from the beginning.

Anyway here is hoping for Chelsea to meet Madrid.

mou flopped 3 semi is a row, every team madrid beat leading up to was expected wins with a 300mill squad, and everytime madrid faced a proper team, gets out played with 10 men behind the ball, dat experience , that is reality twist it anyway you like.

opinions on this forum from mou fanboys

madrid fails, "teams always fail when mou leaves, cause he never creates a foundation to build upon, they will have to rebuild " remember that common fact that used to be thrown as gospel.....yeah

madrid wins, " they won cause mou laid the foundation of experience, after making them play negative and losing the locker room, in his time there.... " do you all read what your posting?

no matter the scenario it works out to make mou look like some master mind, he had absolutely nothing to do with the team success, the moment he was fired the club and most of the players distance themselves anything related to him, again he flopped when it matters

ps i also wish to meet chelsea....... a lot, bring on the bus and thugging

And i don't see how we can remotely be considered as "Mou's Madrid" since we've never played a 4231 with Carlo (433 or 442) and Mou only plays the 4231.

Carlo is much more refined and adaptable tactically. His philosophy is about executing in a way that most fits the squad. Mou is about making the squad play his way only.

chad4401 wrote:haps i said mou is an elite manager and a winner, but he still flopped, and im pretty sure pelle could've gotten us past r16, if higs didn't pull the greatest choke job in cl history , lets not forget calderon rubbish signings, and past it players, but nope great mou saved us, after spending some more money and getting proper players, oh and benzema the cats saved his ass away from lyon , in the r16 funny dat and copa semi too, and he left benzema out of the cl semi and copa finals cause he is a douche who scapegoated him in the first place, put a twist on that

anyway lets play dumb, and applaud mou for consistently conceding the midfield to even the bottom la liga sides, im not saying anything new here, i have seen rm winning 5-0 and the game always felt close that a fact, week in and week out, goals can't hide the truth, any rm fan says otherwise is lying, and lets not forget when teams park the bus on us , most dreadful possession play ever ffs.

mou was clearly wasting the team cause he is limited to hoofball, even THE PLAYERS THEMSELVES got sick of it and his blame games, what more proof do you want smfh, he flopped get over it

carlo madrid in his first season is much better and it has nothing to do with mou, because carlo know how to adapt to his players and try things, until he got what he wanted, a flexible 4-3-3 and 4-4-2 transition, dangerous in possession and counters, mainly the team doesn't have to rely on cr and can play without him, the intent is clear and little to no confusion, any games lost now is on the players, unless they get over played and tired, that on carlo, but not the system, you know a system the team never had under mou ever!!!

haps i watch rm every week for years brah, you can't tell me anything about the team or its problems, and im not a sheep I watch games clearly  

ps out talenting team with madrid is nothing special

Chad, first of all my point would be that you don't get to complain about "hype" by "fanboys" when all you do yourself is answering via counter-hype, -hyperboly, and -fanboyism.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not interested in bigging up Gil's trademark move of consciously attempting to troll and simultaneously spin something towards his end in sometimes outlandish manouvers.
I think it's sometimes amusing and clever, but I'm not interested in participating in this kind of argument.

However you're simply answering 'black' with 'white'.
Case in point, when I point out that under Mourinho you performed vastly better in the CL than in years before, your answer is to say Pelle before WOULD have performed better IF ONLY [player you have an agenda against] had not messed up, while Mourinho only did perform better because [player you are obsessed with which informs your agenda against above mentioned player] SAVED him.
That's stupid. It's just stupid, and it reveals a lack of ability to reflect.
Players play, and coaches coach. That together is how the team works. You can't just separate that at will to serve your resentment
Also I fear that you might be picked up by the police/medics and sent to a mental hospital if you 'roll around the floor laughing' all the time like that in real life.
Why the constant need to make things you disagree with seem absolutely hilariously crazily wrong?
Things are not black and white like that.

That would be my second point, on topic.
I think the analogy to van Gaal at Bayern, that was made above, has some merits, even if of course also limits.

Because while van Gaal did certain things for our team that contributed and conditioned later success, he also did not achieve that success himself because of the things he simultaneously did wrong.
He too clashed with our club, and the clashes were ultimately unacceptable and destructive, while they did nudge and impact some important things in the balance of the club.

I'd say Mourinho performed something similar at Real. Zealous said this with 'burning the house down', and I think he gets to the point with it.
I'd say you'd be very ignorant and had a flawed understanding of how history works if you'd just dismiss the fact of the prolonged and noticable failure of Real in the CL before Mourinho, and the achievement that 3 semis constitute.
In no way you get to call that 'flopping'. I can't let you get away with that. That's an ahistorical, willfully ignorant argument.

It has been said that Mourinho 'wasn't a fit' all along at Real and that's probably true. But that is also the very reason why he did something that maybe only a misfit could perform:

In clashing with the 'culture' of the club in my opinion he managed to deflect, steer away the direction of the club that was heading towards an extreme of that culture.

And by that culture I mean mainly one basic theme of Real: the players are the stars, not the manager, and.. to a certain degree therefore also not the 'team'.
That was the galacticos principle, and it still is Perez main modus. Buy the newest, biggest stars, no matter what.

Mourinho is a star manager with a massive comsumption of authority, attention and limelight, and by that alone he was a misfit with how Real works.
However that's also why I think he was capable of introducing a certain team drive overriding the indivual trajectories which I suspect wasn't there before to that extent.

He did this through buying un-Real Madrid like CHEAP players like di Maria, Khedira and Özil, who were no superstars at all, while employing his trademark shitty football which however is reliably successful up to a point, while intensifying his mind-game and public bullshit, etc

So he had to go, Carlo is a better fit, but Carlo could reap from Mourinho, both from his successes and *bleep* ups.

Di Maria wasn't very cheap tbh...  we paid 36,5 mil + bonuses (another 4 apparently) to get him.  That's a lot of money for a winger back in 2010.  Khedira at 15 wasn't much of a bargain either in 2010.  We would probably not get much more than that if Khedira would have been sold this past summer.

Ozil was the only real bargain that was overshadowed by paying 30 mil for Coentrao.

Varane was a Zidane transfer... so you can't count him.

We didn't grossly overpay for anyone like we usually do while Mou was here other than Coentrao... that's why our transfers may have looked "cheap" relatively speaking.

Yes, I was relatively speaking lol. And mind you, you benefitted already quite much financially from selling two of those for a vastly higher price.

@hapless, i like your post, a lot of things, not just in football but in sports in general are looked at as black or white which is a tad foolish e.g. person 1: "magic johnson is the best player ever", rebuttal : "so you think michael jordan is garbage", which is just ridiculous. back to my point, while i feel carlo may have learned from mou's mistakes, i'm not sure how....carlo has always maintained the same demeanor throughout his career (same with mourinho); from a tactical standpoint, he didn't come in and say "this 4 2 3 1 didn't work so i'll change it", the formation change just morphed overtime especially with the arrival of bale, ozil exit, and his desire to play di maria....so while i'm sure he may have approached some things differently from mourinho, i'm not sure whether that was done on purpose or it was just out of character. to take nothing away from mou he did have two good years, especially his second.....but more than half the squad loathed him at the end, and when a coach loses a large chunk of the squad, its over

I don't mean Ancelotti 'learned' from Mou's mistakes, Ancelotti is a caliber of himself, he doesn't need that.
That's why also my point would NOT be Ancelotti owes anything to Mourinho, or the CL win is not clearly his doing ow anything.

If I say reap from Mou's *bleep* ups, that can for example also just mean that players will love a coach like Ancelotti after they had to go through the intensity, and maybe even bad blood, of Mourinho.

Mou being at Madrid got rid of the bad management org chart...  you had Perez and Valdano making decisions with no managerial input.  Now at least, it's only Perez and he at least asks Carlo's opinion although he doesn't always listen

Mou also broke our losing streak against Barca and actually had the upper hand in classicos by the time he left.  

You can't deny he did some good....  the bad is well documented so i won't go into it.  But in the end, it was mostly good.  If he wasn't such a prick and his football wasn't so ugly, i wouldn't dislike him like i do.

It's something I've seen Mourinho fanboys do before. They conviently ignore how the backbone of Mourinho's first Chelsea team was Ranieri's & his Inter team Mancini's.

1991 wrote:It's something I've seen Mourinho fanboys do before. They conviently ignore how the backbone of Mourinho's first Chelsea team was Ranieri's & his Inter team Mancini's.

yeah

i remember how appalled mourinbots were when mancini  ( the guy who left mourinho a 3 time serie A  winning team ) took some credit for the CL win

but hey , mourinho leaves madrid 15 points behind the worst barça in recent memory , losses the cup final in the bernabeu to a rival, and gets destroyed in the semis vs germany's second best team .. but somehow it's all thanks to him that madrid won the CL

did i just see a Gil post few minutes ago ?

y'all need to stop posting ffs, been here waiting for chad's reply for a couple of hours now. come on lad

Doc you should be aware that I have no moral problem writing a lengthy post claiming all kind of holier-than-thou stuff plus some alleged deep insights, without actually having seen much of Mourinhos Madrid, not to mention pre-Mourinho Madrid lol.
I just pulled most of that right out of my arse

Pretty sure I'm right though

ok haps lets go again, first of all madrid problems are self inflicted, and could've all been fix long before mou, but since mou had the clout, flo just let mou do what needed to be done for a while,don't think axing valdano was part of it(being a douche maybe?), so if you all wanna act like its was genius, to buy the players the manager actually wanted without over spending and shipping out the deadwood(with respect of course), then all power to you.

other than  r16 exits, madrid as always went on long winning streaks, just out talenting the opposition in la liga, until the team face a similar level or higher, same happened with mou beat who we were supposed too based on talent, but lose in footy and tactics, when it came to crunch time, there is no 2 ways about it.

mou was a massive douche, always blaming someone for his shit tactics, who defends after going 1-0 in 2 mins ffs just to lose 1-3 at home, how is that bringing the winning mentality back? again half you jokers posting these nonsense arguments doesn't even have a clue, or watching these games, conceding midfield purposely to hoof is not a winning mentality get a grip ffs

carlo is showing what a winning mentality actually is, going a goal down in 3 mins in a clasico, and the players wasn't even flustered, just continue to FOLLOW THE SYSTEM and eventually won properly and convincingly, sorry if i don't see the FREAKING SIMILARITIES

lastly copa and league wins im thankful, doesn't change the fact copa win under mou was horrible, the league win was a counters feast and awfulness i mean possession play smh, its clear that carlo would have gotten more out mou players, than "hey lets watch cr play for 90 mins and everybody else park it"

also what happened too mou never leave anything to build upon? why did that suddenly changed now that carlo won? this is why this discussion is idiocy, cause if carlo flopped, you would all say "it wasn't mou fault in the first place and the players sucked", im not stupid brah nor i need to play the games with you all, i have eyes and i know BS when i see it, mou left nothing on the pitch, and off the pitch he did what needed to be done i respect him for that flo shield or not