Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread

by Sri Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:47 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
srigooner wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

Mainly because Stones can be that good and besides it's Chelsea

Meh. Hayden > Stones.

Not sure who this Hayden fellow is but i'm going to say he's worse than Justin Hoyte

Can't compare when you aren't sure m8. :coffee:

He's been with the youth/reserves and also as captain at that level. He has been injured a good while recently though. He should be 5th choice right now though.

by Sri Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:48 pm

Before Gabriel, we thought him and Chambers would be our future at CB.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:50 pm

Hoyte was with Arsenal from the age of nine years old. Making his way up through the academy, youth and reserve teams, he signed professional terms with Arsenal in May 2003.

Seems similar to me hmm

by Jay29 Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:10 pm

srigooner wrote:I think it is a big call about who we keep - you're underplaying it a bit here.

Either will benefit from all that Cech can teach them. Szczesny, for example, only really had Lolmunia and later Flappy to learn from. I think that played a role in him not being all that we thought he would be. His recent off-field antics aside, I still believe he's got it in him.

We had some good shoutouts in the youth setup, last I remember. Illiev, etc.

I agree, Szczesny can and should learn a lot from Cech, not least on how to be a better professional and whatnot. But I don't expect him or Ospina to hang around and be the number two keeper long enough for us to benefit from any improvement they make. Long-term it just doesn't seem a realistic prospect, especially if clubs like Roma are going to be interested.

I think we can agree that there's not an awful lot of difference between the quality of Szczesny and Ospina. Differences in style aside, we can be fairly confident we can play either for 10-15 games in a season and not suffer from doing so. So in the short-term it shouldn't matter which one goes.

by Twoism Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:53 pm

Learning from world class player/ rotation is probably not a good idea for goalie position where one needs to play consistently to really gain anything. Courtois was like that, he did really well because he moved away. Oblak was bad until Moya got injured and he got run of game. Mats was also bad w/o any confidence prior Xmas.

If Cech is to play until 38-39 like VDS, Chesny will be nearly 30, Ospina will be over 30, yeap no way they stay that long to be 2nd goalie and play game here and there. They're both NT goalie.

by RealGunner Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:25 pm

It's a loan move apparently

I guess that suits everyone?

by MJ Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:27 pm

RealGunner wrote:It's a loan move apparently

I guess that suits everyone?

feel like that only solves the issue temporarily. but maybe (if it happens) by the time it's over Ospina will have decided whether he wants to continue to be a number 2 or Szczesny might want to make the move permanent.

Twoism wrote:Learning from world class player/ rotation is probably not a good idea for goalie position where one needs to play consistently to really gain anything. Courtois was like that, he did really well because he moved away. Oblak was bad until Moya got injured and he got run of game. Mats was also bad w/o any confidence prior Xmas.

If Cech is to play until 38-39 like VDS, Chesny will be nearly 30, Ospina will be over 30, yeap no way they stay that long to be 2nd goalie and play game here and there. They're both NT goalie.

Well, one of them is going to be sticking around for the upcoming season and with their national team interests in mind, that would make Ospina more likely to bolt as he's the unquestioned no. 1 for Colombia whereas Szczesny's spot with Poland is nowhere near as stable.

by El Gunner Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:35 pm

Ospina pissed me off with that goal he conceded against Swansea.
Will probably never get over that, and while I'm a short guy myself (and often find myself supporting the shorties because I know dem feels) I'd prefer Szczesny to stay over Ospina.

by RealGunner Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:41 pm

Ospina's performance against Monaco pisses me off even more

I rather have Szczesny tbh but Ospina is probably easier to keep as a 2nd choice

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:46 pm

What about the many different times Chesney has *bleep* up lol.

Not saying Ospina is better, i have no idea tbh but Chesney lost his place in the team because of all the mistakes he's made.

by Sri Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:50 pm

I still see it a bit differently, despite your valid, rational and just arguments.

The point is not for Szcz/Ospina to stay back and be ok with being second fiddle. The point for them is to learn what they're currently missing and push Cech and eventually take over from him in the next 1-2 seasons; that is also what I mean by long term - not Cech playing undisputedly as #1 for 5-6 years.

VDS was special in his own ways, afterall - not least that he was playing under SAF who knew exactly how to make ageing stars perform well past their 'peak age'. If Cech does achieve something similar, it will no doubt be spectacular for us and would not matter who stays/goes. However, I see it as a more likely scenario that he is challenged and replaced in the next 1-2 seasons, when he will also consider more of a mentor/backup role. This is how I read into AW's comments on Cech.

Also, I don't think it is just enough to keep playing to improve - game time is crucial, but so is mentorship. Szcz has played oh so many games for us, even displacing Flappy as #1 along the way, and yet we have signed 2 GKs in 2 consecutive seasons of his being benched halfway. He clearly needs help sorting his stuff out. Not everyone has the same self-critical/self-developmental attitude; some just need to be prodded along every once in a while.

I am very curious to know what our resident GK expert, rwo, thinks of this whole situation; even if her knowledge of non-cute-looking and non-Swiss/German GKs is limited. Any way to draw her attention here?

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:59 pm

Typing Sommer is the bestest in your own blood.

by Sri Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:59 pm

Also, to touch upon Szcz over the years:

His best performances came when he was challenging Flappy. Once he became #1, over time, he became complacent. This was followed by him being snubbed in favour of Flappy. Fortunately for Szcz, it was Flappy's last year and Flappy was decent but never great. So AW went on to sign Ospina to create a more competitive situation in goal.

Again, fortunately for Szcz, David came back injured and stayed out for quite a while, lulling Szcz back into his complacence after starting the season on his toes. Then the mistakes came again and then there was the disciplinary action - an opportune moment and reason for AW to put Ospina in goal. David went on to do a good enough job to keep Szcz limited to cup games, although not stellar. With his physique, it is indeed difficult to see him really nail down a GK berth in the PL.

This summer, finally, things seem to have taken a more drastic turn. With a GK in the calibre of Cech available, AW imho has seen an opportunity to push Szcz in a more concrete way than Flappy or David were able to. And that's what leads me to a conclusion that it seems more likely that he will give Szcz one more chance to learn and reach the potential we all saw in him once upon a time - to be in the same league as De Gea or Courtouis.

by Sri Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:03 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Typing Sommer is the bestest in your own blood.

The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread - Page 39 7023d810

by Jay29 Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:08 pm

With the Euros next summer, a loan move makes a lot sense for Szczesny. With Fabianski playing every week at Swansea and Boruc and Tyton hovering around he's not assured of his spot in the Poland team, and a year on the bench won't help his cause at all.

For Arsenal, it wouldn't solve the dilemna we have about who's backup to Cech (this is such a first world problem Laughing

) but would allow us to defer things for a year and give us a chance to evaluate their positions for longer. Szczesny could improve a lot at Roma, or Ospina could improve a lot as he's more settled at the club now. A lot can happen in a season.

Having said that, I don't think Roma would want to take Szczesny on loan without having the option to buy him.

by Sri Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:14 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:With the Euros next summer, a loan move makes a lot sense for Szczesny. With Fabianski playing every week at Swansea and Boruc and Tyton hovering around he's not assured of his spot in the Poland team, and a year on the bench won't help his cause at all.

For Arsenal, it wouldn't solve the dilemna we have about who's backup to Cech (this is such a first world problem ) but would allow us to defer things for a year and give us a chance to evaluate their positions for longer. Szczesny could improve a lot at Roma, or Ospina could improve a lot as he's more settled at the club now. A lot can happen in a season.

Having said that, I don't think Roma would want to take Szczesny on loan without having the option to buy him.

When you factor Euro 2016 into the equation, yes, it makes a lot of sense. +1!

by MJ Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:19 pm

Eurosport say we've accepted £4million for Flamini.

I bet that was their first and only offer.

by Jay29 Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:23 pm

£4mil almost seems too good to be true.

Evening Standard are speculating it'll be £2.8mil. Still about three times what I expected.

Incidentally, I like how Flamini's BFF Ozil is convniently in Istanbul:

https://twitter.com/MesutOzil1088/status/623571472494252032

inb4 Ozil is joining Fenerbahce

by RealGunner Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:25 pm

4m lmfao no way

2.8 sounds a lot more realistic.

Give that 2.8m in charity ffs

by RealGunner Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:52 pm

Kike Fraudrin on twitter

"Arsenal Slowly, but surely. Wenger will try to sign to Benzema. If can not, Arsène has a second option"

"The second option is top secret"

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:55 pm

RealGunner wrote:Kike Fraudrin on twitter

"Arsenal Slowly, but surely. Wenger will try to sign to Benzema. If can not, Arsène has a second option"

"The second option is Charlie Austin"

by RealGunner Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:56 pm

Can just see Arsene pulling a mask off Dzeko or Asamoah Gyan

by Jay29 Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:57 pm

I actually think Charlie Austin is decent. Good enough for Newcastle :coffee:

by Sri Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:00 pm

The first time ever in his life that he is being 'sold', if that ever comes to pass. I'd even take the famed 1 pound and run with it.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:13 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:I actually think Charlie Austin is decent. Good enough for Newcastle

I don't want him Laughing

which is why i said it lol.

by halamadrid2 Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:27 pm

The Reus to Madrid rumours are starting to heat up which means Benz to Arsenal because Reus will be a replacement for Benzema

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