Jürgen Klopp - New Liverpool Manager

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Post by iftikhar on Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:06 pm

Then (2015)

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and Now (2019)

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It's been four years since Klopp joined Liverpool. Long may it continue.

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Post by VivaStPauli on Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:36 pm

If I was you I would still care more about the banter than about the wins.

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Post by Thimmy on Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:33 pm

Klopp managed 47 points in 29 matches during his first season at Anfield. Solskjaer has so far managed 49 points in the same amount of matches. A journalist tells Klopp that he used to be in a similar situation and asks him what Ole needs to do to get Man United back on track:

Klopp wrote:Hahaha! You really think you can fly over from Norway and ask me that question? Wow...

– «He doesn’t need it, he doesn’t need it. He is in that club altogether for.. eh.. like, 10-15 years.. I don’t know. He was there as a player, he knows everything there. He’s experienced in.. in.. in.. as a manager of football. I wish all of the managers in the world had been given as much time as possible to promote their ideas and such things, but you can never compare our situations. Manchester United is an enormous club. Nobody is prepared to wait for success, says Klopp, who points out that he himself had many critics after the week start in the Premier League».


The journalist sounds french Laughing I’ve seen quite a few discussions and comparisons between Ole and Klopp on the internet, and a common argument seems to be that only history revisionists would claim that he wasn’t relatively successful from the moment he landed in Liverpool. At least, he himself remembers it differently hmm

I didn’t watch Liverpool a lot during Klopp’s first season. I mostly remember the criticism from journalists and fans on the internet. How do you guys remember the start of his career at Anfield? It feels like whatever poor start he had was forgotten in the blink of an eye, following the signing of Van Dijk and no less importantly, the emergence of Salah.

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Post by Nishankly on Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:39 pm

@Thimmy wrote:Klopp managed 47 points in 29 matches during his first season at Anfield. Solskjaer has so far managed 49 points in the same amount of matches. A journalist tells Klopp that he used to be in a similar situation and asks him what Ole needs to do to get Man United back on track:

Klopp wrote:Hahaha! You really think you can fly over from Norway and ask me that question?

– «I wish all of the managers in the world had been given as much time as possible to promote their ideas and such things, but you can never compare our situations. Manchester United is an enormous club. Nobody is prepared to wait for success, says Klopp, who points out that he himself had many critics after the week start in the Premier League».


The journalist sounds french Laughing I’ve seen quite a few discussions and comparisons between Ole and Klopp on the internet, and a common argument seems to be that only history revisionists would claim that he wasn’t relatively successful from the moment he landed in Liverpool. At least, he himself remembers it differently hmm

I didn’t watch Liverpool a lot during Klopp’s first season. I mostly remember the criticism from journalists and fans on the internet. How do you guys remember the start of his career at Anfield? It feels like whatever poor start he had was forgotten in the blink of an eye, following the signing of Van Dijk and no less importantly, the emergence of Salah.


The main reason why we love him so much and disregard his first year because he did something a new manager that this level would never do. Klopp made 0 signings in his first season. He said he wants to give a year to each of those turds that kept us down for so long, with that we reached two finals. I both hated and respected that decision, we are in world where we want glory overnight.

Days passed now we have only Firmino, Henderson, Milner, Lallana and Lovren (Was to be sold but no buyers) from the original bunch.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:42 pm

@Thimmy wrote:Klopp managed 47 points in 29 matches during his first season at Anfield. Solskjaer has so far managed 49 points in the same amount of matches. A journalist tells Klopp that he used to be in a similar situation and asks him what Ole needs to do to get Man United back on track:

Klopp wrote:Hahaha! You really think you can fly over from Norway and ask me that question? Wow...

– «He doesn’t need it, he doesn’t need it. He is in that club altogether for.. eh.. like, 10-15 years.. I don’t know. He was there as a player, he knows everything there. He’s experienced in.. in.. in.. as a manager of football. I wish all of the managers in the world had been given as much time as possible to promote their ideas and such things, but you can never compare our situations. Manchester United is an enormous club. Nobody is prepared to wait for success, says Klopp, who points out that he himself had many critics after the week start in the Premier League».


The journalist sounds french Laughing I’ve seen quite a few discussions and comparisons between Ole and Klopp on the internet, and a common argument seems to be that only history revisionists would claim that he wasn’t relatively successful from the moment he landed in Liverpool. At least, he himself remembers it differently hmm

I didn’t watch Liverpool a lot during Klopp’s first season. I mostly remember the criticism from journalists and fans on the internet. How do you guys remember the start of his career at Anfield? It feels like whatever poor start he had was forgotten in the blink of an eye, following the signing of Van Dijk and no less importantly, the emergence of Salah.


Absolutely nonsensical and laughable comparison.

Nothing Ole has ever done points to him being a competent coach at top level, let alone a generational coaching talent like Klopp.

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Post by Thimmy on Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:53 pm

@Nishankly wrote:


The main reason why we love him so much and disregard his first year because he did something a new manager that this level would never do. Klopp made 0 signings in his first season. He said he wants to give a year to each of those turds that kept us down for so long, with that we reached two finals. I both hated and respected that decision, we are in world where we want glory overnight.

Days passed now we have only Firmino, Henderson, Milner, Lallana and Lovren (Was to be sold but no buyers) from the original bunch.


Good answer.

Hans: I expected you to be the first one to answer, as well as take the opportunity to boast about Klopp, but I didn’t ask for your assessment of how they compare to each other Rolling Eyes

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Post by Unique on Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:28 pm

klopp was rubbish for 2 years at liverpool tbh. our defending was a joke.

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Post by Thimmy on Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:47 pm

Who was your starting CBs at that time? Was it Lovren and Sakho?

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Post by Unique on Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:18 pm

@Thimmy wrote:Who was your starting CBs at that time? Was it Lovren and Sakho?
yeah i think so. Laughing Laughing

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Post by Nishankly on Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:29 pm

@Unique wrote:klopp was rubbish for 2 years at liverpool tbh. our defending was a joke.


Klopp got us from 8th to 4th in an year.

The first year was Moreno-Sakho-Lovren/Skrtel-Clyne

He then ostracized the best player of that lot Sakho for constant unprofessionalism.

Second year when we finished 4th was Milner at RB for the entire year.

Man found solutions without signing. I have so much respect for him.

But then again, It will be the same love-hate relationship again when we have 8 games in December with 13 players and this man not choosing to sign anyone when he knows we have so many competitions to fight in (regardless of his disregard for everything English)

I don't understand you Jurgen.
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Post by Unique on Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:35 pm

klopp has to be the first manager to incorparate VAR into his tactical plans from what ive seen. got to hand it to him for being brave and original tbh.

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Post by iftikhar on Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:28 am

@Thimmy

Klopp struggled a lot (in the first two years) simply because he refused to throw someone under the bus. Instead he took it upon himself to get the best out of what he had. Lovren and Lallana were hugely improved under him.

What we hated him for still remains though. His notion of

#1. 15-16 players are good enough for 50-60 game season.
#2. You can't substitute before the 85th minute.

While Klopp will take/deserve the major honor, there's a phenomenon chemistry between him and the players, supporter & owners; and he has been able to ride on that.
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Post by futbol on Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:29 pm

Are "journalists" seriously drawing comparisons between managers just because they might have similar point tallies in a randomly picked timeframe? Laughing

Klopp had built a machine at Dortmund and reaching CL finals and would have also won if not for refs gifting it to Bayern. Bayern themselves copied Dortmund's tactics. What has Ole shown, like ever?

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Post by Thimmy on Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:00 pm

You’re comparing them as well, to be fair. Comparisons are fun, I suppose. I think I’ve read a more nuanced view on here regarding Klopp’s tenure with Liverpool to date (bar Hans, who’s usual, hyperbolic rhetoric is more reminiscent of Youtube comment sections).

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Post by Don't call me James on Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:10 pm

Alright, there's some weird revisionism going on here or people simply don't remember it well, let me jog your memory.

Klopp came into the Liverpool job 8 games into the 15-16 season. We were 10th in the table with negative goal difference. This is following one of our absolute worst seasons ever in 2014-15 which culminated in a 6-1 last day defeat to Stoke. Rodgers started the 15-16 in awful form and got the sack.

There was no transfer window for Klopp to sign anyone. It wasn't the fact that Klopp decided out of the goodness of his heart to keep these garbage players and give them a shot it was because summer transfer window was already over and Rodgers had wasted 60m on Benteke, Ings, Clyne. And funnily enough Rodgers was adamantly against signing Firmino that summer, thank goodness the ill fated transfer committed that forced the singing of Bobby to go through.

Klopp inherited this squad from Rodgers and everyone was in absolute terrible form:

Mignolet
Clyne - Lovren - Sakho - Moreno
Can - Henderson
Lallana - Firmino - Coutinho
Benteke/Sturridge

Bench: Origi, Milner, Skrtel, Lucas, Gomez, Ibe, Joe Allen, Ings

Within 4 weeks of Klopp's appointment we went up to 6th in the table and the team had properly started playing high intensity football. We beat Chelsea and City away from home 1-3 and 1-4 playing Firmino as a false 9. This was the very first time we tried Bobby as a false 9.

Anyways, majority of the players were way below standard so the good patch didn't last for too long. The biggest reason being by the spring it was evident we wouldn't get Champions League football through the league. However, we were still in Europa League and this was the first season where the winner would get into CL next year. So Klopp rotated heavily to have our best players be ready for the EL and we played some absolutely awful lineups in the league lol. We had an incredible EL run that ended unfortunately with a loss to Sevilla and we also had a good cup run in the Carling Cup losing in the final to City on pens.

As bad as finishing 8th was we were only 6 points away from top 4. Pretty much every single top team struggled that season. Leicester ended up winning the league. Chelsea were 10th lol.

So within context Klopp did not struggle in his first season with us. He took an awful team that was ill-fitted to his style of play and actually gave us a decent season with some fun memories and clear progression of how he wanted to play.

-He saw Moreno and Mignolet were absolutely garbage.
-He saw Benteke was a terrible fit.
-He saw Firmino was a gem and could be played false 9.
-He saw how badly we needed pace in the team.
-He saw how bad Skrtel was and how average Joe Allen was.
-He saw how terrible Ibe was lol. Regardless of how much hype fans and Rodgers had for him.
-He saw how unreliable Sturridge was (Rodgers used to pretty much wait every week and pray that he was fit lol)
-He actually got the best out of Lallana, who was really good at pressing and technically something our midfield lacked.

2016-17, he made some signings to fix the glaring problems and could finally transition from 4-2-3-1 to his favorite 4-3-3. We signed Mane, Wijnaldum, Matip, Karius, and Klavan.

This was our starting team in 2016-17:

Karius
Clyne - Matip - Lovren - Milner
Henderson
Wijnaldum - Lallana
Mane - Firmino - Coutinho

- Matip was straight away our best CB. Klavan and Lucas rotated with Lovren every time he made an error.
- Milner displaced Moreno at LB.
-Karius broke his arm sometime during the season so Mignolet unfortunately still got to play a lot.
-Firmino played false 9 all season.
-Mane was our best player. His pace rejuvinated the attack.
-Our offense finally started clicking. Defensively there were still some issues.
-We finally got to see proper geggenpressing Klopp team this season.
-Most importantly we finished 4th and got CL. And there was clear progression in our style of play.

At no point in these first two season was Klopp truly struggling. He had taken an absolutely average midtable team to top 4 with clear ideas, progression, and super entertaining football.

Ole and his situation don't compare at all. At no point in his first 2 seasons was Klopp ever this clueless playing this terrible brand of football without any ideas how to fix it.



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Post by RealGunner on Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:18 pm

Fantastic post. You deserve a name change if you wish after that.

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Post by Nishankly on Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:24 pm

@Don't call me James wrote:
There was no transfer window for Klopp to sign anyone. It wasn't the fact that Klopp decided out of the goodness of his heart to keep these garbage players and give them a shot it was because summer transfer window was already over and Rodgers had wasted 60m on Benteke, Ings, Clyne.



I felt this as well but the money Rodgers spent on all these players was recouped by August before the window was over by Rodgers himself. We sold Sterling for 50m alone the same very window. Not to mention Klopp did spend 5m on Grujic who joined the next year.

This year again he hasn't signed anyone which can lead me to believe the club isn't that well off financially still.
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Post by Don't call me James on Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:50 pm

@Nishankly wrote:
@Don't call me James wrote:
There was no transfer window for Klopp to sign anyone. It wasn't the fact that Klopp decided out of the goodness of his heart to keep these garbage players and give them a shot it was because summer transfer window was already over and Rodgers had wasted 60m on Benteke, Ings, Clyne.



I felt this as well but the money Rodgers spent on all these players was recouped by August before the window was over by Rodgers himself. We sold Sterling for 50m alone the same very window. Not to mention Klopp did spend 5m on Grujic who joined the next year.

This year again he hasn't signed anyone which can lead me to believe the club isn't that well off financially still.


Iirc, we only signed Grujic that winter (JAN'16) because Buvac was having orgasms about him as he was having an incredible year in the Serbian league for such a young player and he was gonna get snapped up by someone else if we didn't go in. It was also for chump change. Outside of that, players that would truly improve us weren't for sale in January so Klopp didn't sign anyone else. I think partially because we had spent some decent amounts already in 2014 and 2015 summer windows and majority of these players were struggling, injured, or did not fit Klopp's style. If money was available, it was gonna be for the right players only. At the time we didn't have CL money so were definitely tighter with out purse strings. Which is why we wainted until summer of '16 for the right players that fit Klopp's style like Mane, Gini, Matip.

I don't think money is an issue at all right now. We're in a very good spot now. I don't know if you're following the Nike-NB court case at the moment but looks like we're gonna get a rich ass deal from Nike if our contract is annulled with NB by the court. Being in CL 3 years in a row now (and probably 4 next year) and the PL money for finishing top 1/2 means we have deep pockets for proper heavyweight spending.

I think we didn't sign anyone this summer for a few reasons. First, our starting XI cannot possibly be improved unless we're spending 60m+ on a single player and even then it's not a guarantee that those players will do better than what we have starting currently (look at Naby, still not able to displace Hendo-Gini), and our depth requires just as much money to get improvements on the likes of Shaqiri and Origi who were both instrumental last season.

Second, we spent a significant amount of money raising our player's wages and extending their contracts and rightfully so as they are being incredibly successful atm. You see Arsenal losing players like Ramsey, Gnabry, Malen for free because of contract issues. We also felt this first hand with Emre Can's situation. We could've recouped decent money for him if his contract wasn't up.

Third, we're re-investing heavily into improving our infrastructure. The new training ground in Kirkby, the ideas to renovate Annie-Road end and increase stadium capacity to well over 60k.

Lastly, we have some big ideas on the horizon for next summer. I'm expecting a truly blockbuster signing i.e. Sancho or someone like that.

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