What's next for Pep Guardiola?

titosantill wrote:

Cruijf wrote:Tbh I think the ideal outcome for neutrals would be him staying one more year and then going to Milan Arsenal.

Would love to see him make them a powerhouse again after winning the CL with Bayern. Would end this bs stacked argument too.

i think you're overestimating pep's "powers". 1. arsenal actually have to battle with other clubs in the country, for talent as well as for titles...city, utd, chelsea, aren't selling clubs, and will definitely not sell their top stars to their rivals, especially not to arsenal who, though financially stable don't have the same clout.

2. arsenal aren't littered with a messi, eto'o, henry, puyol, xavi et al. they have some good players, but their good players are also on similar levels with the good players at utd, city, chelsea; not to mention all those teams will probably restock in the summer.

i think even pep knows arsenal won't be a cake walk, he'll steer clear. with the competition and the cut throat way some clubs are run, he could be exposed in a hurry. i see him staying at munich. if per chance blanc leaves psg, he could move there at some point in the future, or to juventus....

that's if juve are still dominating serie a, if not, the guy might even retire from football altogether, make sure his reputation isn't stained, allow his myth to grow, and people will start saying ridiculous things like "he could have coached 'insert midtable team name here' to a treble"....when a manager signs only 1 year deals, an exit from the game is extremely plausible

I think you're overestimating how much Pep cares about his reputation. If he was so afraid of being 'exposed' I don't think he would even consider going to England, because I think we can all agree it's a much more competitive league than the BL.

And I still don't understand where this BS comes from that Pep will only accept a job if he has a 'stacked team'. Barcelona was a mess when he was offered the job, half the squad was considered 'finished', Xavi was on his way out, Messi was injury prone, and no one was expecting even a single title that year. Hardly a dream job where he could expect to be carried to success.

Same thing with Bayern. When he accepted the job in January, they were hardly 'stacked', they were just a bunch of underachieving chokers (*cough* Arsenal *cough*). Let's not forget one of Pep's best players has been Robben, and he wasn't even getting into the team when Pep said yes.

To be clear, I'm not saying Pep will win the treble in his first year. But if he stays for his typical 3-4 years, I'm very confident he will take them back to challenging for the PL and possibly even CL by the time he leaves. He made Barca the best team in the world when everyone was sure they would be finished, and he gave Bayern consistent success the likes of which they hadn't seen in the modern era. Not sure why you think it's impossible he could take Arsenal to the top again, especially when they're not that far away right now.

After all the rebuilding and debt-fighting that Arsene has done, getting all core players tied down to long term contracts and stuff, of course Pep can waltz in and claim all the accolades.

First it was Pep isn't a miracle worker he can't do it, now it's Arsenal will succeed with or without him he'd just take the credit.

You couldn't make it up

Cruijf wrote:

First it was Pep isn't a miracle worker he can't do it, now it's Arsenal will succeed with or without him he'd just take the credit.

You couldn't make it up

Don't get me wrong. I am not discrediting Pep in any way here. I am just stating the highly probable situation that all fame and glory will be heaped on the wonder-manager that is Pep and all the years that Wenger put into bringing the club to its current status would conveniently be swept under the carpet by a vast majority of the media and football following population.

There would be, at best, a handful of people, who would have been supporting the club for at least a decade or more, who would not forget the contributions of Wenger. And when history is written by PEP'S ARSENAL, that would also gradually be forgotten.

I dislike Pep and make no secret of it. But my previous post had nothing to do with that. It was a more general lament of the short-lived memories of us football fans.

PSG could also be a tangible destination for Pep, Blanc's contract finishes up next year and Pep has great ties with Qatar and is on good terms (he was an ambassador for 2022 bid). Ibra maybe heading out after this season as well, so that might help.

But he'll probably extend with Bayern imo

Fair enough Sri, and I'm not discrediting Wenger.

Just responding to this whole "you're overestimating Pep" rhetoric.

Would like to see him take on a new team in a more competitive setting. The EPL or even Italy (lawl) would be ideal. Although going straight to City or say Juventus or something like that would still be top to top. I want to see him take on a challenge as opposed to being handed the reigns of the best teams in each league.

We weren't reigning champions when he took us over, 2 years without a title.

I would really like to know how Bayern were underachievers before Pep appointment. Shocking to call a side that played in 2 CL finals in 3 seasons as underachievers and a choke artists.

What does that make current Bayern under Pep tho?

Cruijf wrote:

titosantill wrote:

Cruijf wrote:Tbh I think the ideal outcome for neutrals would be him staying one more year and then going to Milan Arsenal.

Would love to see him make them a powerhouse again after winning the CL with Bayern. Would end this bs stacked argument too.

i think you're overestimating pep's "powers". 1. arsenal actually have to battle with other clubs in the country, for talent as well as for titles...city, utd, chelsea, aren't selling clubs, and will definitely not sell their top stars to their rivals, especially not to arsenal who, though financially stable don't have the same clout.

2. arsenal aren't littered with a messi, eto'o, henry, puyol, xavi et al. they have some good players, but their good players are also on similar levels with the good players at utd, city, chelsea; not to mention all those teams will probably restock in the summer.

i think even pep knows arsenal won't be a cake walk, he'll steer clear. with the competition and the cut throat way some clubs are run, he could be exposed in a hurry. i see him staying at munich. if per chance blanc leaves psg, he could move there at some point in the future, or to juventus....

that's if juve are still dominating serie a, if not, the guy might even retire from football altogether, make sure his reputation isn't stained, allow his myth to grow, and people will start saying ridiculous things like "he could have coached 'insert midtable team name here' to a treble"....when a manager signs only 1 year deals, an exit from the game is extremely plausible

I think you're overestimating how much Pep cares about his reputation. If he was so afraid of being 'exposed' I don't think he would even consider going to England, because I think we can all agree it's a much more competitive league than the BL.

And I still don't understand where this BS comes from that Pep will only accept a job if he has a 'stacked team'. Barcelona was a mess when he was offered the job, half the squad was considered 'finished', Xavi was on his way out, Messi was injury prone, and no one was expecting even a single title that year. Hardly a dream job where he could expect to be carried to success.

Same thing with Bayern. When he accepted the job in January, they were hardly 'stacked', they were just a bunch of underachieving chokers (*cough* Arsenal *cough*). Let's not forget one of Pep's best players has been Robben, and he wasn't even getting into the team when Pep said yes.

To be clear, I'm not saying Pep will win the treble in his first year. But if he stays for his typical 3-4 years, I'm very confident he will take them back to challenging for the PL and possibly even CL by the time he leaves. He made Barca the best team in the world when everyone was sure they would be finished, and he gave Bayern consistent success the likes of which they hadn't seen in the modern era. Not sure why you think it's impossible he could take Arsenal to the top again, especially when they're not that far away right now.

SPOT on. Except for the part of Bayern being "underachieving chokers" before Pep took over lol.


Anyhow.
HOW can anyone dislilke Pep?
What's the reason behind that? What has he done besides being a f'ing successful coach that experiments and promotes hard work?
@srigooner

El Gunner wrote:

Cruijf wrote:

titosantill wrote:


i think you're overestimating pep's "powers". 1. arsenal actually have to battle with other clubs in the country, for talent as well as for titles...city, utd, chelsea, aren't selling clubs, and will definitely not sell their top stars to their rivals, especially not to arsenal who, though financially stable don't have the same clout.

2. arsenal aren't littered with a messi, eto'o, henry, puyol, xavi et al. they have some good players, but their good players are also on similar levels with the good players at utd, city, chelsea; not to mention all those teams will probably restock in the summer.

i think even pep knows arsenal won't be a cake walk, he'll steer clear. with the competition and the cut throat way some clubs are run, he could be exposed in a hurry. i see him staying at munich. if per chance blanc leaves psg, he could move there at some point in the future, or to juventus....

that's if juve are still dominating serie a, if not, the guy might even retire from football altogether, make sure his reputation isn't stained, allow his myth to grow, and people will start saying ridiculous things like "he could have coached 'insert midtable team name here' to a treble"....when a manager signs only 1 year deals, an exit from the game is extremely plausible

I think you're overestimating how much Pep cares about his reputation. If he was so afraid of being 'exposed' I don't think he would even consider going to England, because I think we can all agree it's a much more competitive league than the BL.

And I still don't understand where this BS comes from that Pep will only accept a job if he has a 'stacked team'. Barcelona was a mess when he was offered the job, half the squad was considered 'finished', Xavi was on his way out, Messi was injury prone, and no one was expecting even a single title that year. Hardly a dream job where he could expect to be carried to success.

Same thing with Bayern. When he accepted the job in January, they were hardly 'stacked', they were just a bunch of underachieving chokers (*cough* Arsenal *cough*). Let's not forget one of Pep's best players has been Robben, and he wasn't even getting into the team when Pep said yes.

To be clear, I'm not saying Pep will win the treble in his first year. But if he stays for his typical 3-4 years, I'm very confident he will take them back to challenging for the PL and possibly even CL by the time he leaves. He made Barca the best team in the world when everyone was sure they would be finished, and he gave Bayern consistent success the likes of which they hadn't seen in the modern era. Not sure why you think it's impossible he could take Arsenal to the top again, especially when they're not that far away right now.

SPOT on. Except for the part of Bayern being "underachieving chokers" before Pep took over lol.


Anyhow.
HOW can anyone dislilke Pep?
What's the reason behind that? What has he done besides being a f'ing successful coach that experiments and promotes hard work?
@srigooner

There a very few who actually dislike him, but others I believe just don't like his playing style more so then not liking him as a coach.

Blue wrote:I would really like to know how Bayern were underachievers before Pep appointment. Shocking to call a side that played in 2 CL finals in 3 seasons as underachievers and a choke artists.

What does that make current Bayern under Pep tho?

We have to look at Bayern in JANUARY 2013 I.e when Pep said yes.

In the last three years, they had choked in the CL final twice, lost the title to Dortmund twice, and been hammered in the cup final by Dortmund once. Heynckes in fact seriously considered stepping down at the end of the 11-12 season. They weren't considered this "stacked" super team, just a bunch of talented chokers.

Cruijf wrote:

Blue wrote:I would really like to know how Bayern were underachievers before Pep appointment. Shocking to call a side that played in 2 CL finals in 3 seasons as underachievers and a choke artists.

What does that make current Bayern under Pep tho?

We have to look at Bayern in JANUARY 2013 I.e when Pep said yes.

In the last three years, they had choked in the CL final twice, lost the title to Dortmund twice, and been hammered in the cup final by Dortmund once. Heynckes in fact seriously considered stepping down at the end of the 11-12 season. They weren't considered this "stacked" super team, just a bunch of talented chokers.

Never Munchen

Winter is Coming wrote:We weren't reigning champions when he took us over, 2 years without a title.

You're a Bayern fan? Um...Bayern had just won the Bundesliga by almost 30 points (12-13), they had just won the CL, and won the DFB Pokal Cup.

Then Guardiola took over and they continued to dominate the BuLi but haven't had the same CL success.

But yeah, he definitely went from best to best in La Liga and BuLi. Realistically he took over the team at the perfect time. They had underachieved before, but were dominant in the CL and weer just hitting their stride and clicking together.

BTW if Pep were to extend for a single year, and Paderborn were to do well... Effe abides.

He was talking about Barca Curtinho

When Pep took over Barca, they had been trophy less for 2 years.

The old and recycled arguments from the rest of your post have been refuted numerous times by Hans, Jibers, myself and others.

Yeah that's my bad. I was on the mindset from the rest of the conversation being Bayern centric. Still, I didn't say league champs I said 'best team'. The talent was definitely there at Barcelona regardless of what people were saying -- especially any time Messi is healthy.

I don't really see how you can refute the facts, but ok.

I'm not even calling Pep a bad manager. He's obviously not. I just said I would prefer to see him take on a challenge where he isn't being given the most talented squad in the league to work with from the onset.

Blue wrote:I would really like to know how Bayern were underachievers before Pep appointment. Shocking to call a side that played in 2 CL finals in 3 seasons as underachievers and a choke artists.

What does that make current Bayern under Pep tho?

I could search back about 150.000 goallegacy posts calling us eternal chokers etc

Curtinho wrote:Yeah that's my bad. I was on the mindset from the rest of the conversation being Bayern centric. Still, I didn't say league champs I said 'best team'. The talent was definitely there at Barcelona regardless of what people were saying -- especially any time Messi is healthy.

I don't really see how you can refute the facts, but ok.

I'm not even calling Pep a bad manager. He's obviously not. I just said I would prefer to see him take on a challenge where he isn't being given the most talented squad in the league to work with from the onset.

If the talent was there why did Ronnie and Deco (central parts of the previous squad) need to be removed? Why did Xavi's role need to be drastically altered? Why did Dani Alves (who let's not forget was a massive part of Pepcelona) need to be brought in?

Pep overhauled the squad and drastically changed their style.

I mean, many people would say the most important parts of Pepcelona were Messi, Xaviesta, Busquets, and Alves

Busquets and Alves were brought in by Pep.
Messi's role was redefined.
Xavi's role was massively altered.
Iniesta was given much larger responsibility and made a regular.

These were not obvious choices (many doubted Pep when he made them), but they were necessary for Barca to succeed. To say that Pep stepped into the ready made "best team in Spain" is just revisionism.

He had the best squad in Spain though.

Do we really have to compare the squad real had until 2009 vs the squad Barca had?

The 2005-2009 squad was by far the worst Madrid squad I have witnessed.

Henry-Eto-Messi themselves were more talented than our entire team bar Casillas and Robben was eternal injured.

Talent don't mean much, player for player Madrid have had more talented side, even last year and we saw how that ended. Even currently right now our joke of a defense is still level on points with Madrid.

talented squads mean fk all with bad coaching.
otherwise why did Tata Martino blow for Barca? most talented squad blahblahblah.
pep could retire tomorrow and still be considered one of the most successful managers in his short career.

Curtinho wrote:

Winter is Coming wrote:We weren't reigning champions when he took us over, 2 years without a title.

You're a Bayern fan? Um...Bayern had just won the Bundesliga by almost 30 points (12-13), they had just won the CL, and won the DFB Pokal Cup.

Then Guardiola took over and they continued to dominate the BuLi but haven't had the same CL success.

But yeah, he definitely went from best to best in La Liga and BuLi. Realistically he took over the team at the perfect time. They had underachieved before, but were dominant in the CL and weer just hitting their stride and clicking together.

No, I was talking about Barcelona 2 years no titles, team was underachieving and we were on the verge of losing one of the key players under Pep era Xavi. We were decent in the CL and that was due to we were in 3rd in La Liga and about 15-18 points off Madrid, so focused more on the CL. The previous season (06-07) we finished 2nd in the group stages and got KO'ed in the first round by Liverpool, all tho in the league lost the title on H2H. On top of that he got rid of players like Dinho/Deco (key players under Rijkaard), revolved the game around Xavi, Iniesta, Messi.

I do understand that some people want to see him go to the likes of Sunderland, Everton, Stoke, Levante, Malaga or whatever and win the CL or something. I also don't feel he's afraid to challenge himself, as long as a club has a plan themselves that align with his, hence his move to Bayern. For example Milan, they really don't have a plan, get players on loan, sell off there best players, etc. I feel he'll look for a club that match his idea's and show some ambition.

Debate is weather he had the best league squads when he took over both teams which is yes. He then successfully destroyed that goat Bayern into a team that can be destroyed by anyone on their day.

how his barca's team when he took over the best team in the league if they weren't winning.
they look the best now because he made them the best...

Yes, the one league squad that finished 3rd and lost the title by 18 points. Best EVER league squad smh