Zidane Sack Watch

Fifa is too involved with their presidential election plus trying to overcome corruption allegations to set a timeframe for the appeals. earliest would be April or May. And even if they do hold their appeal hearings before summer market, there still is a secondary appeal process (CAS) that will also stretch out the time. Bottom line is the Madrid teams will have this summer market to stock up, much like Barca was able to use one last summer market before the ban came into place.

Valkyrja wrote:

Onyx wrote:I'd give him a free pass this season provided he implements a concrete philosophy.

We might as well hire Louis Van Gaal

Not sure why Perez went for Zidane either. As far as I know, he was pretty awful with Castilla. Awful is perhaps too strong of a word, but I don't think they were doing too well.

@marcus, it was a political move on perez' part; well, not as straightforward- he's a fan of zidane (the player); the goal in glasgow for example had perez beyond and above the clouds as a president and administrator, so zidane had various positions before ultimately wanting to coach and end up in castilla

it was a political move because, the appointment of rafa (also political), wasn't working and nobody at the club, fans and players alike warmed up to benitez as ancelotti's replacement. After the clasico embarrassment....no; after the embarrassment regarding how iker left, the de gea debacle, the el clasico ass whooping/mauling/beatdown (whatever you want to call it), the cheryshev-copa del rey stunt, perez  was once again feeling the heat. chants of florentino resign were making the rounds;

with the players not liking rafa, as well as his poor tactics on the pitch, perez threw himself a life line and brought in zidane. there was no other coach available (rumors say ancelotti waited for a call), and with the fans liking zidane- not as a coach but an ex-player, the move was sure to buy perez time.....and it has. how?

one more lapse after the zidane hiring was the fifa ban, but people were too focused on the team and what the new manager can bring than the ban. the boos and perez resign chants have also slowly disappeared. fans realize zidane's inexperienced, what people want is for him to get the squad ticking. some feel the squad isn't motivated enough; i feel the squad isn't good, its terribly imbalanced

but with respect to florentino, it has given him time to address other things without worrying about whistles- there wasn't any manager available, and this was a move he felt  would pacify the bernabeu if only temporarily. he also tried to get an inexperienced raul in a sporting role over christmas i believe, and raul said no, he wanted to remain in the states....now he's brought roberto carlos back playing some sort of role  an ambassador or something....this is just my opinion btw, ample time for him to plot what the summer's going to be like without worrying about socios and florentino resign movements

Marcus Aurelius wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:

Onyx wrote:I'd give him a free pass this season provided he implements a concrete philosophy.

We might as well hire Louis Van Gaal

Not sure why Perez went for Zidane either. As far as I know, he was pretty awful with Castilla. Awful is perhaps too strong of a word, but I don't think they were doing too well.

They were 2nd in the table when he got promoted and on a hot streak.  Since he left, they've continued to be hot and are top of the table.  They were 5th last season... would have been higher but Flo signed Odegaard and forced Zizou to play him over a good Medran. Eventually Zizou had to bench Odegaard. Before Odegaard fiasco, Castilla was top of the table. Done quite well at Castilla despite 75% squad turnover in both his seasons there.

System and shape looks good.

Lacks personnel though

futbol wrote:System and shape looks good.

Lucifer wrote:Lacks personnel though

Agreed.
Also what you have to keep in mind is how delicate Zizou has to proceed here.
As a newbie coach dealing with Uncle Flo's power it doesn't suffice to just try to fix the way Real play.
First, in order to convince Perez where the problem lies, he needs to expose and amplify the flaws and imbalances of the squad, before he can improve it with Unle Flo's backing.
He's doing a great job in that regard IMO

Sports can back me up on this
http://www.goallegacy.net/t38970p36-we-need#1571083

i really don't think florentino tells coaches who should play. i think that whole thing is highly exaggerated. has he asked a manager "why is player x not playing well or why is player y not playing"? probably; he did ask camacho that once, according to camacho. but coaches have their agendas, and its easy for a coach to do what they feel flo wants or allude to him selecting the team; Than it is for the same managers to play his own system, see it flop or not meet up to barcelona in the league and take the brunt of it.

i don't think zidane is going that route....i also don't think he knows what system, what strategy, or who to play just yet. i bet sometimes he looks at the side and wishes he was like 15 years younger so he could just go out and play attacking midfield

I didn't say he wants or has to do anything of the sort... I'm saying that he likely cannot influence major change with Flo's galactico players unless it's proven somehow to Flo that it doesn't work.  How does that happen?  You play the best available 11 based on the squad, show good activity and good shape, yet cannot execute in certain areas against the better sides because of player weaknesses/limitations.  You also want to experiment putting players in different roles and see how that works if plan A fails so there's isn't the "what if" argument hanging out there.

So far, we've play the top 11 and, due to injury or otherwise, we've done the following:
-  Isco play both as a CM and on the forward line
-  James play both as a CM and on the forward line
-  Bales play both on the left and right
-  Ronaldo in his usual spot or central striker
-  Kovacic over James and Isco as the CM
etc.

The shape allows us to keep possession... that's at least something.  Under Rafa, we were actually getting starved of the ball.

But the experiments have shown that the combos aren't working no matter what.  We lack speed without Bale and he's always injured.  We don't have proper CF play or linkup in the final 1/3 without Benz and he's battled injuries for the last 3 weeks (hip and hamstring).  Marcelo got injured.  Pepe is injured too and we had a few problems the game Varane missed due to suspension.  AND our midfielders all carry a purse on the pitch...

When you look at it, we just have a lot of issues.  Not sure what you expect a manager to do coming in 4 weeks ago without preseason or a mercato.  He's supposed to magically fix all the issues we have since last season under Carlo and under Rafa and make us beat teams like Barca and Atleti no problem, something we haven't done since 2014

@tito... i wouldn't pay attention to Hans or Futbol. They are notorious trolls and are trying to get a reaction from fans for kicks.

Kroos

I can see why a lot of Madrid fan says he doesn't fit in well, pathetically jogging back

What are you talking about? Just because a simple throw-in and 1 pass cause the space of the Titanic to open up behind Modric and Kroos, with everyone casually jogging back, doesn't mean you should post this in the Zidane Sack Watch Thread. If Bale had played, this situation would have been prevented. Shape looks good.

That midfield needs a serious overhaul .
They need a Kanté in front of the defense, the likes of Pogba and Gundogan on the sides etc...
Tired of watching that lazy ass Kroos jogging like what's happening in the field is non of his business, and Isco & Modric getting outmuscled by relegation teams .

You know what team shape is, right?  Seems like it's a foreign word

The shape can be fine and it won't work if players stand their like traffic cones or jog around without doing anything within the shape.  Maybe English is the problem... in French it's called "quadrillage du terrain".

How quickly things change in football. Only half a year ago that famous Isco-Kroos-Modric-James midfield was producing football better than Sacchi's Milan, Kroos was the best mid in the world and Bale's injuries were celebrated by Madrid fans because it meant that unstoppable 4 man midfield would be used. Fast forward to the Z-Dorf era and the entire midfield is useless, Kanté is the solution and Bale can't come back soon enough.

sportsczy wrote:You know what team shape is, right?  Seems like it's a foreign word

The shape can be fine and it won't work if players stand their like traffic cones or jog around without doing anything within the shape.  Maybe English is the problem... in French it's called "quadrillage du terrain".

I think I get what you mean. In German we call it: "Wenn ein Clown eine Mannschaft trainiert."

Posts like that makes one want to call you a troll and what Aurier calls a fiotte...  sad really.

I remember what you guys were calling Enrique in his first few months when Barca were horrible and Madrid built a 9 point lead... Carlo had Madrid playing putrid football his first 4 months too. Basically unwatchable. But that's convenient memory for you.

How quickly things change in football. Only half a year ago that famous Isco-Kroos-Modric-James midfield was producing football better than Sacchi's Milan, Kroos was the best mid in the world and Bale's injuries were celebrated by Madrid fans because it meant that unstoppable 4 man midfield would be used. Fast forward to the Z-Dorf era and the entire midfield is useless, Kanté is the solution and Bale can't come back soon enough.

That lasted  4 months ... and that was over a year ago .
Also  not everybody is   well versed at  making chicken salad out of chicken shit as good  as   Ancelotti .

sportsczy wrote:Posts like that makes one want to call you a troll and what Aurier calls a fiotte...  sad really.

I remember what you guys were calling Enrique in his first few months when Barca were horrible and Madrid built a 9 point lead...  Carlo had Madrid playing putrid football his first 4 months too.  Basically unwatchable.  But that's convenient memory for you.  

In that parallel universe of yours where you live, there might have been a 9 point lead. In the real world this is how the table looked after the first Clasico in Enrique's "first few months" without having a striker available.



And who is Aurier? Is that a famous French writer and poet that French folks like to cite?

farfan wrote:

How quickly things change in football. Only half a year ago that famous Isco-Kroos-Modric-James midfield was producing football better than Sacchi's Milan, Kroos was the best mid in the world and Bale's injuries were celebrated by Madrid fans because it meant that unstoppable 4 man midfield would be used. Fast forward to the Z-Dorf era and the entire midfield is useless, Kanté is the solution and Bale can't come back soon enough.

That lasted  4 months ... and that was over a year ago .
Also  not everybody is   well versed at  making chicken salad out of chicken shit as good  as   Ancelotti .

Maybe not chicken salad, but Z-Dorf's "quadrillage du terrain" sounds as tasty. And most importantly: it looks good.

for the record not everyone was sold on that 4 man midfield combo. we've had long rants and healthy debates on that arrangement for a while now, and for the sake of this team, i've been hoping that i will be proven wrong, like i was with di maria playing central midfield (i was extremely disgusted when ancelotti first put that out)
http://www.goallegacy.net/t38648p18-james-should-not-play-as-a-center-midfielder-it-should-be-isco#1537516

Carlo had no choice. Khedira was injured (of course), Illaramendi had folded like cheap lawn chair and Isco was really poor at CM. He tried Di Maria there because we had nobody else Sometimes, you're better lucky than good.

Maradona is the one who intentionally played Di Maria in central midfield at NT and everyone called him crazy.

He was playing mid at Benfica, so Maradona didn't exactly innovate anything .

I remember him as a winger at Benfica

Not gonna pretend that i watched Benfica regularly , but this is their 2009-2010 formation according to Footballdatabese.eu and zonalmarking.

looks like an old school 4 4 2 (4 1 2 1 2) i never watched benfica either, but my guess is di maria's role there is as a left winger, than it is a midfield three. what may prove my argument wrong though is ramires isn't (and i don't think ever was) a right winger. when we signed di maria though, the feeling was we're getting a left winger cos it was him or david silva i believe...good find; aimar n saviola, la liga boys, how time flies