Arsenal Vs Barcelona (CL 1st leg)

still positive about our title chase
losing at this stage of CL shouldn't impact our league run negatively as it didn't previously either

not a bad performance
could have done more offensively but overall game plan was alright ,lost concentration after while and their quality took over

lmao at the poeple blaming flamini? do people actually think there is a difference between losing 1 nil at home or 2nil? once barca scored the first goal away from home the tie was over.

Let's see how we perform against United.

RealGunner wrote:
Has Flamini cost us before this season? Wenger has brought him on so many times before. He started matches when Coquelin was injured and didn't make any mistakes like this before. Wenger had every reason to bring him on. He has the experience. Elneny hasnt even adapted to PL yet. Why send him on against the best team in the world?

Taking coquelin off was a good decision. He was awful in the 2nd half. Wenger tried to save taht 1-0 defeat. Flamini was fresh legs.

Pretty sure I wouldn't be so pissed with Flamini if this is the first time this is happening.

He started matches when Coquelin was injured because we had nobody else left to play in midfield. Also the same reason why Ramsey was shifted back to CM.

Experience counts for nothing if it can't mitigate brainfarts.

This was not a PL game. And Elneny has played in the CL before. Elneny minus experience is still better than Flamini as a liability.

REWB wrote:lmao at the poeple blaming flamini? do people actually think there is a difference between losing 1 nil at home or 2nil? once barca scored the first goal away from home the tie was over.

You can lyao all you want. Here's why I said what I did:

srigooner wrote:

GoonerJay29 wrote:On one level, Wenger must think he can rely on an experienced player like Flamini not to do something stupid in the final 10 minutes of the game when his team is a goal down ...

If he is that naive that he can't see how cancerous Flamini on the pitch is, with all this time managing a club in the top flight, then I have nothing more to say about this.

srigooner wrote:To clear things up:

I am not reacting to Flamini costing us the game tonight. I am reacting to the thought process which led to him being on the pitch in the first place.

Of course it doesn't matter one way or the other over two legs - nobody realistically expected us to win anyway. But that blind trust in some players, and wrong substitutions, will cost us any remote chance of silverware this season. And this is not the first time the old man has messed it up. And obviously, it will not be the last. *That* is why I am pissed off with Wenger.

http://www.goallegacy.net/t38671p234-arsenal-vs-barcelona-cl-2015-16#1570746

srigooner wrote:

RealGunner wrote:
Has Flamini cost us before this season? Wenger has brought him on so many times before. He started matches when Coquelin was injured and didn't make any mistakes like this before. Wenger had every reason to bring him on. He has the experience. Elneny hasnt even adapted to PL yet. Why send him on against the best team in the world?

Taking coquelin off was a good decision. He was awful in the 2nd half. Wenger tried to save taht 1-0 defeat. Flamini was fresh legs.

Pretty sure I wouldn't be so pissed with Flamini if this is the first time this is happening.

He started matches when Coquelin was injured because we had nobody else left to play in midfield. Also the same reason why Ramsey was shifted back to CM.

Experience counts for nothing if it can't mitigate brainfarts.

This was not a PL game. And Elneny has played in the CL before. Elneny minus experience is still better than Flamini as a liability.

5/10 players would have gone for the ball and 3/5 of those would have conceded the penalty. Messi was lightning quick to get to the ball.

Mertesacker miskicking the ball was 90% more costly.

RealGunner wrote:@MJ

Once again, STOP blaming him. What difference does 2-0 make? We were never going to score more than once at camp nou anyways. That's if we get lucky.

Game was lost when coquelin made that awful shitty backpass and when Giroud didn't even attempt to win the header and when Mertesacker thought its a good idea to follow neymar to neverland

I literally could not care less whether it was a pipe dream to win tonight or the next match at the Nou Camp. It was always slim to none and, honestly, it's probably for the best we don't advance in the CL. Not going to repeat these heroics in the QFs, SFs or final at the risk of losing the league at the same time. Our chances tonight do not change a thing about how stupid what Flamini (and Per) did. Difference is that it was Flamini who brought Messi down before Coquelin even sat the hell down. At least Per was solid for 70+ mins.

You're going waaaay overboard. The bottom line is he did what he did, headless chicken style and I don't need to look back at his track record to go over how many times he cost us. Simply not in the mood to watch him play football. He was done in October 2013. Inexcusable that he was brought on.

But, no, let's point at our wasteful finishing for why Flamini hacked Messi down.

With all that experience you talked about in your previous posts, 10/10 times I would have expected the player to not have been among the 5/10 who went for the ball knowing that they could well be 3/5 to concede a penalty given that it was a lightening quick player getting to the ball.

That is when experience counts - the ability to make the right decisions instead of being impulsive.

Thanks for helping me prove my point.

MJ wrote: Difference is that it was Flamini who brought Messi down before Coquelin even sat the hell down. At least Per was solid for 70+ mins.

You're going waaaay overboard. The bottom line is he did what he did, headless chicken style and I don't need to look back at his track record to go over how many times he cost us. Simply not in the mood to watch him play football. He was done in October 2013. Inexcusable that he was brought on.

But, no, let's point at our wasteful finishing for why Flamini hacked Messi down.

Good lord, at least somebody gets what I have been trying to say all this while! Thank you so much, habibi!

Now I can sleep in peace.

srigooner wrote:With all that experience you talked about in your previous posts, 10/10 times I would have expected the player to not have been among the 5/10 who went for the ball knowing that they could well be 3/5 to concede a penalty given that it was a lightening quick player getting to the ball.

That is when experience counts - the ability to make the right decisions instead of being impulsive.

Thanks for helping me prove my point.

But same experienced Mertesacker decided to make a schoolboy error

RealGunner wrote:

srigooner wrote:With all that experience you talked about in your previous posts, 10/10 times I would have expected the player to not have been among the 5/10 who went for the ball knowing that they could well be 3/5 to concede a penalty given that it was a lightening quick player getting to the ball.

That is when experience counts - the ability to make the right decisions instead of being impulsive.

Thanks for helping me prove my point.

But same experienced Mertesacker decided to make a schoolboy error

After 70' defending against MSN. Yeah. Completely the same thing.

Can't believe we're discussing why Flamini (who conceded a penalty literally a minute from coming on with the game nearly over) shouldn't be blamed for anything because "we were never gonna win m8".

Like being pissed at that is equivalent to pardoning Mertesacker, Giroud and whoever else you're all upset with for underperforming.

And for the record I would gladly take a 5 game Giroud scoring streak against bottom feeders right now

Also, why are you so intent on comparing Mertesacker and pinning the fault for the second goal?

Again. Flamini should not be anywhere near the pitch. That's the point. Not who is at fault for a goal tonight in a tie we were going to lose at some point anyway.

MJ wrote:Can't believe we're discussing why Flamini (who conceded a penalty literally a minute from coming on with the game nearly over) shouldn't be blamed for anything because "we were never gonna win m8".

Like being pissed at that is equivalent to pardoning Mertesacker, Giroud and whoever else you're all upset with for underperforming.

And for the record I would gladly take a 5 game Giroud scoring streak against bottom feeders right now

We are not discussing why Flamini shouldn't be blamed. But why does the whole team get a free pass and Flamini is the ONLY one being blamed. Not just here, but everywhere. It's Like the first goal didn't happen. Or that the 2nd goal wasn't an indirect consequence of the 1st. Or that Suarez should have scored a 3rd because of what a liability Sanchez is. Or that Coquelin is severely limited.

srigooner wrote:Also, why are you so intent on comparing Mertesacker and pinning the fault for the second goal?

Again. Flamini should not be anywhere near the pitch. That's the point. Not who is at fault for a goal tonight in a tie we were going to lose at some point anyway.

Bot pinning, but sharing the blame. Are you saying mertesacker did nothing wrong? Koscielny defended amazingly well till the final whistle and so did Monreal. They were facing the same defence. For a record I am a fan of Mertesacker and thought he did great most of the game. But that penalty was half his fault.

Thought Oxlade did really really well bar that miss and that shit touch which caused his injury. Him and bellerin were doing quite good at the RW.

Walcott didn't have the same impact at all. Or any.


Monreal really is a beast.

The entire team doesn't get a free pass but they're not Flamini. Flamini has been a liability for 70% of his second spell at Arsenal and should have been moved on last summer. The fact that he can still come on and be, not only ineffective but hugely damaging (See Spurs/Hull/City/Swansea at home to name a few in the past 1-2 years).

I genuinely think Coquelin hadn't even sat down before Flamini ended the tie.

Tie was honestly ended after 1-0. 2-0 just makes it easier for us to concentrate on the league.

You still aren't getting it. Nobody is giving the team a free pass. Saying Flamini should not be playing doesn't imply by default that everyone else is faultless.

Also, we have known for ages that Mertesacker has his limitations. That's why we bought Gabriel, who happens to be injured after a string of games in the starting XI. And if you hadn't brought Mertesacker up as a straw man to respond to my question on what Flamini was doing on the pitch in the first place, we wouldn't even be discussing this.

And like I already said before, Flamini was on the pitch because of his experience. It's not like i wanted him there. I would have preferred Arteta and Chambers ahead of him. But i do understand why Wenger brought him on. It made sense at that time. Wenger wasn't to know Flamini would immediately concede a penalty.

And I don't think I have yet to read a single post which is criticising anyone else apart from Flamini in here. Other than rewb's post. Seems like a free pass to me?

And like I already said before, if Wenger still hasn't realized what a liability Flamini is, despite his decades of managing players in the top flight, he is blind, stubborn, and should probably retire.

I would have preferred Elneny ahead of him. But apparently an injured captain or a kid who has played less than a handful of times in midfield sound like better options to you than the one we had on the bench.

I do not understand why Wenger brought him on. It still makes no sense to me.

---

If we're done repeating our arguments, I am now off to bed. Good night lads.

What really hurt me today was Flamini coming on. Its sad a club as big as Arsenal with resources we have and still have to play Flamini against Barcelona.

We could have been down 10-0 and bringing Flamini is still worse  than score line. We never had a chance against Barcelona and why did Falmini come on? no freaking reason. We are just not good enough, Oxlade is brain-dead, Theo is lost cause. Giroud is waste, playing against Barcelona where he hasn't scored in 8 games.

Other than Cech and back 4 the rest were shit, yes even Ramsey.

I have already said it, I would have preferred Elneny, Chambers, Arteta and even Joel on before Flamini. But I am not going to say that i dont understand why he brought flamini on. Flamini is one of the most used subs late on in the matches. It's not about me and you disagreeing with it. Wenger is stubborn and probably should retire but i can understand from his point of view why he decided to bring him on.

even if it was a shit decision

RealGunner wrote:
And I don't think I have yet to read a single post which is criticising anyone else apart from Flamini in here. Other than rewb's post. Seems like a free pass to me?

Yeah, because unlike Flamini, I focus on specifics. And my specific point was that he should not have been on the pitch. My point was not to dissect the performance, find out who all played well, who all didn't, etc. I can wait to read that on Arseblog, or if/when Jay does a post-match.

If it helps you sleep any better: Mertesacker and Coquelin were not at their best, but still part of why we were not 4 down at 70'. I was pissed off at Ox for missing his chance and then fluffing the counter, even though he put a massive defensive shift. We are still missing Cazorla, as we have been since November - something I end up pointing out once a week. If you bother scrolling through the posts here and in the GS at around half time and full time, you would find some of my quotes along those lines.

Raptorgunner wrote:What really hurt me today was Flamini coming on. Its sad a club as big as Arsenal with resources we have and still have to play Flamini against Barcelona.

We could have been down 10-0 and bringing Flamini is still worse than score line. We never had a chance against Barcelona and why did Falmini come on? no freaking reason.

Well we did play Yaya Sanogo against Bayern not too long back. Take heart Raptor, Wenger has set precedent earlier.

We are down 1-0 at home and need a goal why bring on Flamini? the player who gets destroyed by below average players to stop best players in the world?

Even if we had tied the game the tie is over, just give the fans something to cheer about. Bringing on Flamini is dumbest decision by Wenger.

Oxlade should leave in the summer, his time is up.