West Ham vs Arsenal

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West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by Jay29 on Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:31 pm

We kick off early tomorrow against a West Ham team looking to squeak into the top four. Dmitri Payet is doing his best to keep West Ham in the race and we'll certainly have to be concerned about him, especially if he has a free-kick within 25 yards of goal. I'd say this game is probably the second hardest we have remaining; apart from City they're the only team we have left who are in the top half of the table currently.

I'm feeling more confident about this one now than I was a month ago, though. It looks like we've rediscovered the balance of the team and players are starting to perform again. If we keep up our current level of performance I'm sure we'll get a good result.

Team news is that Ramsey and Flamini could return to the squad, but Wenger said it'd be difficult for him to change the team right now. So I'm expecting the same team that played against Watford, but with Cech coming back in for Ospina.
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Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by RealGunner on Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:43 pm

Damn, forgot about this. Working tomorrow so will miss this Sad


Should stay with the same team. Iwobi will get a bit better treatment so he might have a difficult time. But that might just make things easier for Ozil.

Sanchez also looking better.

Hope we dont start with Giroud.


Wilshere played today in U21 cheers cheers

ramsey on bench pls

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Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by CBarca on Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:59 am

Would be happy with a tie for this one tbh

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Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by El Gunner on Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:00 am

Will probably miss the first half, hoping I make it in time for the second though.

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Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by silver on Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:43 am

Staying up for this. Please don't disappoint me...

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Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by Jay29 on Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:46 am



Ospina starts over Cech. I'm confused.
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Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by Jay29 on Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:55 am

West Ham:

Adrian; Tomkins, Reid, Ogbanna, Cresswell; Noble, Kouyate; Antonio, Lanzini, Payet; Carroll
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Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by EL Patron on Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:32 pm

I would have started Cech and Mertesacker for this one, Ospina and Gabriel are not convincing when the ball is in the air

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Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by EL Patron on Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:50 pm

How is that not a red for Carrol ? thats a tackle from behind

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Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by EL Patron on Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:36 pm

Sight

Gabriel is struggling in the air, he doesn't man mark. He barely gets up in the air. Ospina being tiny also doesn't help, he doesn't dominate the box in set pieces.


Last edited by EL Patron on Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by Chumlum on Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:37 pm

WTF with allowing the comeback, this is pure Arsenal Laughing Neutral Crying or Very sad
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Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by EL Patron on Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:56 pm

Our defending is ridiculously poor, why do Iwobi and Sanchez refuse to track back ffs. time and time again the fullbacks are left exposed in one on one position.

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Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by MJ on Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:45 pm

Andy Carroll of all players.

Stunned that Ramsey was picked ahead of Joel. What did he offer today? Dropping Cech for Ospina was an awful decision, not that it was 100% his fault but it was a bad call nonetheless.


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Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by MJ on Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:48 pm

@StanCollymore 10m10 minutes ago
Arsenal

Scored 3 at West Ham and Liverpool

Scored 2 at United and Spurs

Won none.

Damning.

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Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by El Gunner on Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:59 pm

Yeah even if we've been complaining about our attack in 2016, our defense should also take part of the blame for the fallout these past few months.

Poor

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Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by Jay29 on Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:05 pm

One thing all those games have in common: we conceded goals in short periods of time.

Liverpool 2-0 up in the first 10 mins. United scored twice in a minute. Spurs scored twice in a minute. West Ham scored twice today in three minutes.

This team has a tendency to panic and lose their concentration, and that's when the individual deficiencies of our defenders come out. And I don't know why this happens. All we know is that is that it's a huge problem - one amongst many.

I mean, we were doing pretty well up until the first goal we conceded. 2-0 up in control, a couple of scares but generally looking good. Then the goal goes in and we just capitulate likes it's 2011 all over again.

The defending is shocking. Maybe Everton and Watford just didn't offer enough to expose it, but West Ham did today in a very simple way. A big donkey up front scores a hat-trick, not because we can't beat him in the air - nobody is beating Carroll in the air - but because we cannot defend crosses. Alexis and Iwobi were terrible defensively.

First goal - Cresswell with so much time and space. Alexis standing there watching him go past him.

Second goal - Poor organisation from the corner.

Third goal - Monreal completely isolated against Antonio, does poorly against him, Antonio doesn't get the cross in if we double up.

This season really has been a case of either creating chances and not scoring, or scoring but conceding sloppy goals. We've not been able to find a balance between the two.

How I'll feel about this result will depend on how Spurs do tomorrow, but I hope we take advantage of our easier fixtures and don't get dragged into top four *bleep*.
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Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by EL Patron on Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:06 pm

Arsene didn''t learn from the Yanited game, Koscielny and Gabriel as a partnership is a no no no especially against teams who put plenty of crosses in the box. Mert and Cech should have started although, Ospina was not at fault for the goals. Cech just dominates the box and organises the back four better. Mert also helps in that aspect and he is more comfortable dealing with crosses than Gabriel. Gabriel is all over the place when the ball is in the air, his positioning and marking is very poor. Even Chambers is better in the air, he has a lot of improvement to do if he wants to be a starter here. At the moment even Djourou was better.

Overall we played well but its the defending that let us down, I think we would have dealt with the crosses better with Mert and Cech in the team. Iwobi was very good agan, altough he could have done more defensively. He left Monreal exposed all game. Welbeck was very poor as well, lost the ball away too much. I appreciate the movement and the mobility but needs to look after the ball better.

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Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by Sina on Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:06 pm

Crystal Palace H
West Brom H
Sunderland A
Norwich H
Manchester City A
Aston Villa H

2nd place is the target!

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Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by RealGunner on Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:43 pm

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Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by CBarca on Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:08 am

@CBarca wrote:Would be happy with a tie for this one tbh

Huh, this rarely works for me
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Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by Jay29 on Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:46 pm

Re-watching some parts of the game and good lord was our defensive shape bad. Actually it'd be more appropriate to say it was non-existent.

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This is very early on and a sign that Arsenal weren't switched on from the beginning. On West Ham's right flank, Antonio, the RWB, is already bursting forward with the ball. You can see Iwobi in West Ham's half no where near him. On this near side, you can see Cresswell, the LWB, making a run forward. Alexis doesn't even know where he is and is watching the play instead.



Cresswell ends up in a lot of space in our penalty area and is free to pick up the cross from Antonio. Bellerin can't cover because Carroll has pulled onto him; if he leaves Carroll, Cresswell has an easy pass into the striker. Cresswell's mishit volley ends up finding Lanzini, pulling off Coquelin, and he narrowly misses from an offside position.

So a minute into the game it's clear that a) Arsenal probably weren't anticipating West Ham to use a back three with two wing backs and b) hadn't briefed Iwobi and Alexis about the threat of West Ham's full backs pushing forward.

Now, watching the game live, Wenger did get out his seat early on to issue some instructions. If he was telling Alexis to watch Cresswell, Alexis either didn't hear him, ignored him, or heard him but was simply incapable of following instructions.



12 minutes in, so still early in the game. Arsenal's back four and two holding players are set-up fairly well here, but alarmingly Iwobi, Alexis and Ozil aren't in the picture. There's such a large disconnect between our defence/midfield and attack that Noble, West Ham's deepest lying midfield player, can do what he likes; he can hang back and pick up easy passes, or he can overload one side. He does the latter.



Payet and Lanzini work the ball between each other, which moves Coquelin and Elneny out of position. Neither of our holding players can now follow the run of Noble down our right hand side. By the time Lanzini makes the pass, Alexis is seen WALKING back into shot before making a half-hearted effort to close Lanzini down.

So having neglected to get back in the first place, he trots back to help his team, and ends up doing nothing. The resulting play has Noble cross to Carroll at the back post. Carroll manages to volley it down for Lanzini to score. Fortunately he was incorrectly ruled offside.



This is a great shot, because it shows just how far Alexis is from Cresswell, and how much room the LWB actually has to do anything he wants.



This is just before Carroll's first goal. I've been panning Alexis' poor defensive play so far, but here I also have to point out Coquelin's poor play too.

Coquelin takes up this very annoying position that many players do where he is neither affecting the player on the ball or any runners behind him. It bugs the crap out of me because most of the time the player ends up doing nothing except being taken out of play.

He doesn't close Cresswell down because he's worried about the run in behind him. But he doesn't have to be worried about the run in behind him, because Elneny can cover it. Gabriel can also cover it. Bellerin could probably cover it. Ultimately, Coquelin can safely pressure the ball here and delay the cross, if not outright prevent it.

This is very similar to Harry Kane's winner against us for Spurs last season. We can blame the defenders for not picking up runners in the box, but they're not helped in any way by the midfielders allowing them to put the ball in to begin with.
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Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by Lex on Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:48 pm

I honestly don't think I can add anything that hasn't been thought or said already. All I'll say is for the entire 90 minutes, my stream froze thrice and every time it came back, West Ham had added another goal to the score.

Dud

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Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by silver on Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:46 am

To be fair West Ham were playing 5 at the back. So do you ask Iwobi and Alexis to occupy the CBs leaving the WBs to gallop up field or to occupy the WBs leaving the CBs with space to pick a pass.

In fact, thinking about it, what is the best way to beaet a 5-4-1? Whatever it is, our team formation was not set up for it...

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Re: West Ham vs Arsenal

Post by Jay29 on Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:11 am

It depends what you want to do.

If the aim is to pressure and force turnovers high up the pitch then you need to press the centre backs and block off passes so the wing backs end up stranded up the pitch.

If not, then you have to defend the obvious threat. You can't leave full backs vs wing backs because the opposition forwards will drag the defenders out of position and will create overloads. And you can't have the DMs shift across all the time because that opens up space in the centre for attacking midfielders.

What Arsenal did was neither. What I think should have happened - and I think Wenger did try to get this across during the game - was that, with Carroll up front, crosses from the wing backs was the obvious danger, therefore we should have adapted accordingly. It would have meant leaving their three CBs alone, but none of them were good passers of the ball so I don't think it would have hurt us.

From an offensive point of view, the obvious way to beat the 5-4-1 is to exploit the space down the side of the outside centre backs, which we did. Our first two goals came from identical situations, where their RWB was caught out of position and we were able to work ball down the side of their RCB. We actually had more trouble breaking them down when they switched to a conventional back four.
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