Does anyone else feel massively let down by Kommander?

rincon wrote:

guest_07 wrote:

rincon wrote:No, I mean Riquelme is supposed to do more against a midfield entirely composed of scrubs instead of losing 3-0 while surrounded with Cambiasso, Mascherano, Veron, Messi and Tevez if he is to be hyped.

No one in Argentina deserves any praise for that final. Most embarrassing loss for them in my lifetime. Strange to pick that game to hype Riquelme.

did you see the video i shown to you

please describe the performance whether it was good or bad




tell me that above video was worse performance compare with any portugal players did in the 2016 euro final vs france

Who is talking about Portugal? This is Argentina, have some perspective.

Abbondanzieri; Zanetti, Heinze, Ayala, Milito; Riquelme, Cambiasso, Mascherano, Veron, Messi, Tevez

They were favorites by so, so much in that game. And they got embarrassed.

alexjanosik wrote:

Thimmy wrote:Standards are different for Messi than other GOATS? I constantly see people undermine the achievements of past legends, in order to promote Messi. Hell, as brilliant as Messi was in Copa this year, you're comparing his performance in that tournament to performances by past GOATS in world cups Oh, yeah.. and it's all Higuaín's fault

I did not. I mentioned in another thread that post this Copa, Messi had a very good NT career. And while other GOATS might have had better NT careers, it wouldnt be by much.I also didnt compare Copa to WC. If you see the other thread, I compared WC performance to WC performances and continental tournament performances to continental tournament performances.
And yes, different standards are applied to Messi. I just pointed out one such example. futbol mentioned assists and took a swipe at Messi's playmaking ability. If thats the case, then it entirely fair game to ask what Zidane created against Brazil or Italy?

If you want a like to like comparison, what did Zidane(the supposed NT GOAT) create in the 2000 Euro final?He was poor and couldnt create much. In fact, dont think Zidane has a single open play assist in WC or Euro knockouts. Viera has more than him. Messi has quite a few open play assists in Copa and WC knockouts.
I can extend the same for Maradona and others.

I agree that there are people who hype Messi and play down the achievements of past legends. But one shouldnt go to the other extreme. Before the Copa knockouts, I said he needed a legendary knockouts to cement his legacy. IMO he delivered and his standing has gone up imo.

rincon wrote:Run away you asked me to watch the video, it takes 8 minutes

I watched the game live, I was even in Venezuela for the Copa and watched Argentina play in the stadium. Battling Josue and Mineiro (whoever they were) in a world class team and losing 3-0 without being able to help your team score as the main playmaker is not a performance for the ages. Sure individually he was fine, at most, but clearly worse than Messi in 2016.

Thats like complimenting Xavi in a 3-0 loss to Espanyol. It just doesnt work.

guest_07 wrote:

rincon wrote:Run away you asked me to watch the video, it takes 8 minutes

I watched the game live, I was even in Venezuela for the Copa and watched Argentina play in the stadium. Battling Josue and Mineiro (whoever they were) in a world class team and losing 3-0 without being able to help your team score as the main playmaker is not a performance for the ages. Sure individually he was fine, at most, but clearly worse than Messi in 2016.

Thats like complimenting Xavi in a 3-0 loss to Espanyol. It just doesnt work.

why worse? tell me........

rincon wrote:Nothing like a back pass in your own half while your team gets destroyed by scrubs, thats like praising Cristiano's random stepovers from a few years back. Again, have perspective on who the opposition was, and what was the outcome.

rincon wrote:and no one is praising Zidane or France when they lost to mighty Greece. Whats the point of these comments, football is not a highlight reel. For someone like Riquelme, Messi or Zidane, football is about turning the tide of the game in your teams favor. Teams are setup to close these players and try to minimize their impact while setting up their own game. Brazil 07 very easily did that. Against the runaway favorites of the tournament, they convincingly won 3-0 using their scrubs. The disparity in talent was amazing and still Riquelme and co. couldn't do anything. That Argentina team relied heavily on Riquelme, if he played well, the team won. The they got to the final, closed him down, played it tight, and won 3-0. No glory there for him.

rincon wrote:The individual performance of the team talisman reflects on the teams performance. He was their focal point, the player they relied on, and didn't do enough, clearly. He couldn't assist, he couldn't score, he couldn't choke Brazil out of the ball, he couldn't prevent them from stomping.

I'm sure even Riquelme himself forgot about his performance there. He even played great that tournament, why you would chose the game where he didn't, is just weird.

My last post here.

titosantill wrote:i agree with rincon. its one thing to talk about a player playing well in a close loss, but a 3 nil loss, to eternal rivals? please quit it. as said, even riquelme would have been extremely disappointed losing to brazil in that fashion. and mind you, the teams were pretty even. it wasn't his best game by any stretch of the imagination regardless of how we try to re-write history with a couple of clips. if i can remember correctly, that may have actually been his worst game in the whole tournament. which is anticlimactic, considering you save your best performance for last

alexjanosik wrote:I have already expanded on his playing style in the Barca section and the Copa thread. I was even ridiculed by the Barca fans and neutrals for calling Messi one dimensiona. You can read the Messi thread on our section for proof.
However, irrespective of whether his play was one dimensional or not, I maintain he had a legendary tournament by any standard.
What did you expect against Chile? Did you expect tons of chances? It was a game of few chances and Messi created most of them. You missed the chance he set up for Aguero after dribbling through Chile.
NT tournament finals are inherently cagey affairs with very few chances.

How many chances did Maradona create against Germany in 90? Hell how many did he create against Germany in 86(there was the assist but outside of that)? He created squat.
How many chances did the great Zizou create against Italy in 2006? How many chances did Xavi and Iniesta create against Holland in 2010?
All 4 are considered GOAT playmakers (in the case of Zidane, he is nowhere close to the others as a playmaker) and yet couldnt create jack.
That is just the nature of tournament finals.

I can agree with your criticism of the 2014 final. Even there it has to be remembered that he had a very good first half(much better FINAL performance than Maradona in 90 and arguably on par with Maradona's final performance in 86).But dont agree on the 15 and 16 finals. He played very well in the 15 final but was brutally hacked down. He was outstanding in the 2016 final but was unlucky. Not his fault that Bravo pulled off one of the GOAT saves.
Was he one dimensional? probably but he played brilliantly regardless. Lets not kid ourselves. If a Zidane or an Iniesta pulled off that performance, they would be praised to the high heavens.
Just consider Zidane's performance against Brazil in 2006. Frankly that Brazilian team was the most unprofessional big team in recent memory. A bunch of overweight has beens. Roberto Carlos on his haunches allowing a free header in a WC knockout match.
Zidane had a couple of nice youtube moments but created jack in the game. Yet it gets labelled as some sort of legendary performance. I ask you the same question. What did Zidane, the legendary playmaker create against Brazil?
Or take Iniesta in the recent Copa Del Rey final. A great performance and he rightfully gets lauded for it. But again didnt create much.

Point being, standards are different for Messi than other GOATS. The same standards need to be applied to all GOATS.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I agree on the standards thing mind you, constantly see how group stages don't matter and suddenly when Payet does it then it's suddenly ok.

titosantill wrote:@guest_07, when did we start praising people for hitting the bar and forcing the keeper to make saves? by the way, have you taken into account the fact that in the last two clips you put up, his team was 2 nil and 3 nil down respectively and in the second half? a superb backpass skill, when you're already 2 nil down? are you serious right now? that's like being down 20 in the third quarter of an nba game and you do a 360 dunk....so what, you're down 18. in this case, after the skill they were still down 2 nil

then the last clip, u're down 3, and finally he executes a reasonable pass. its the 70th minute ure down 3, and we should praise you for a pass? down 3 at 70 minutes, the opponents barely have any desire to be as aggressive and tough as they were when the game was zero-zero. we are too quick to crown people and then stoop to lower standards when crowning them. that anyone can post clips of their player in a 3 nil final loss is a new low

revert back to what the thread is about and quit trying to riquelme into conversations that don't concern him. he was an above average player, simple. only a staunch fan of boca juniors will give him all this attention that you do...two out of 4 highlights when the team is already down 2, lol. and btw that wasn't the most difficult save to make. don't act like it was pele vs gordon banks. it was an okay shot and an okay save.....now get back on topic

titosantill wrote:his team lost by 3....not 1 nil, not 2-1, not on penalties, not 3-2. they lost 3 zip. and you provided some second half highlights we should watch when they were already down 2 nil and 3 nil respectively. i'm sorry, but we cannot take that seriously, we've let a lot of things slide, and accept that people will lower standards for the sake of crowning their best players....but highlights of an attacking player when you're down 3 zip, you should be fined for even bringing up this topic