Does anyone else feel massively let down by Kommander?

@futbol_bill, I think it's safe to say almost everyone will stop taking you seriously after you said you don't consider Maradona to be a great. Good one!

As far as the rest of the argument goes, could you describe how exactly Ronaldo dragged Portugal? You say Portugal is pathetic. Mind explaining? They won the most important game without their Kommander

Messi on the other hand played every game (including the final) to the best of his abilities, and dominated. He did not let his team down, at least till he decided to quit. And do not, for once, try to undermine his decision. Yeah he is a quitter, but everyone's acting like they know it all. Wow. Give me a player who lost three finals after 118 minutes on the pitch each time, and then talk.

Agreed that Messi is not a leader. He is, and will remain, a greater inspiration though.

futbol_bill wrote:
Ronaldo dragged this what appeared to be a pathetic team to the the final and although he had to leave the final, he certainly was the inspiration leader. If you can't see that, then you are blind.

lol, more like portugal were on life support and dragged each other. i keep saying when a team wins a tournament, it doesn't exactly mean the best player on the team carried them. from this tournament, cristiano proved a good leader, people may not take it seriously but motivation from your skipper if he's your best player can go a long way to settling nerves of the younger players. good leader, but didn't have nowhere near a great tournament, nor did he carry portugal

i maintain that with the lack of talent in the copa america, messi not winning that, after like three tries is a massive disappointment. especially when you consider suarez and neymar didn't even play in the copa marketing. when people say someone's the best. they want to see it translate in various settings, not just clubs where talent is concentrated. and he didn't have the greatest of world cups neither, no matter how much some people try to lie to us about how valuable scoring against those bad teams in the group stages were

great win for portugal, but unless we're trolling, cristiano did not have the moment in the sun. if he'd have gotten a goal in a win in the final, that might have made things a bit different

https://twitter.com/mikesanz19/status/709793984353312768

^ I thought they were relatively composed and calm. They politely asked for his photo and then went on their way.

This is a rare sight cause usually they go crazy for him.

Might be staged

I would go crazy tbh

RealGunner wrote:Might be staged

I would go crazy tbh

I would kill him just to see how people react.

RealGunner wrote:Might be staged

I would go crazy tbh

I'd gift him my self-made Kommander shirt

Then go crazy

Children and drunkards speak always the truth

titosantill wrote:

futbol_bill wrote:
Ronaldo dragged this what appeared to be a pathetic team to the the final and although he had to leave the final, he certainly was the inspiration leader. If you can't see that, then you are blind.

lol, more like portugal were on life support and dragged each other. i keep saying when a team wins a tournament, it doesn't exactly mean the best player on the team carried them. from this tournament, cristiano proved a good leader, people may not take it seriously but motivation from your skipper if he's your best player can go a long way to settling nerves of the younger players. good leader, but didn't have nowhere near a great tournament, nor did he carry portugal

i maintain that with the lack of talent in the copa america, messi not winning that, after like three tries is a massive disappointment. especially when you consider suarez and neymar didn't even play in the copa marketing. when people say someone's the best. they want to see it translate in various settings, not just clubs where talent is concentrated. and he didn't have the greatest of world cups neither, no matter how much some people try to lie to us about how valuable scoring against those bad teams in the group stages were

great win for portugal, but unless we're trolling, cristiano did not have the moment in the sun. if he'd have gotten a goal in a win in the final, that might have made things a bit different

For me, it is about performances and not winning. I agree that Messi didnt have a great WC knockouts. Thought he was poor by his own high standards.
Disagree on the Copa bit though. He had a legendary Copa knockouts by any standards, including a stellar final performance against a great side.
Before you mention poor teams like USA, no player faces elite teams throughout. Every player faces some scrubs and some elite teams, even at the WC. I really dont agree that Messi not winning Copa is a massive disappointment. Sometimes,it comes down to luck. I am a Messi critic and his standing went up imo after the recent Copa, not down.

Messi is a guy who gave up.

Why are we talking about such a loser in the Kommander thread? Please take this discussion elsewhere. Thank you.

I'm surprised alex thinks Messi's performance in this Copa was "legendary". I thought he was predictable.

Take ball around the center circle => make YOLO dribbles into hordes of defenders until inevitably stopped by the 2nd or 3rd man. Rinse repeat. No variation to his game. Now his fanbois pretend Messi is a playmaker and not a goalscorer anymore (a man who once scored 91 goals in a calendar year can't be expected to score goals on the intl. stage ). Then what did he create? He created about 2 chances in 120 minutes which is poor for a supposed GOAT playmaker: 1 from an indirect freekick and one where he passed the ball sideways to Higuain.

Messi has played 3 finals. 3 times 120 minutes. Which is 6 (!) hours of football. No goal, no assist and maximum one handful of half-chances created. A lot of dribbling into dead alleys. Then he buckled under the pressure and missed the penalty against his teammate goalkeeper before rage-quitting.

I have already expanded on his playing style in the Barca section and the Copa thread. I was even ridiculed by the Barca fans and neutrals for calling Messi one dimensiona. You can read the Messi thread on our section for proof.
However, irrespective of whether his play was one dimensional or not, I maintain he had a legendary tournament by any standard.
What did you expect against Chile? Did you expect tons of chances? It was a game of few chances and Messi created most of them. You missed the chance he set up for Aguero after dribbling through Chile.
NT tournament finals are inherently cagey affairs with very few chances.

How many chances did Maradona create against Germany in 90? Hell how many did he create against Germany in 86(there was the assist but outside of that)? He created squat.
How many chances did the great Zizou create against Italy in 2006? How many chances did Xavi and Iniesta create against Holland in 2010?
All 4 are considered GOAT playmakers (in the case of Zidane, he is nowhere close to the others as a playmaker) and yet couldnt create jack.
That is just the nature of tournament finals.

I can agree with your criticism of the 2014 final. Even there it has to be remembered that he had a very good first half(much better FINAL performance than Maradona in 90 and arguably on par with Maradona's final performance in 86).But dont agree on the 15 and 16 finals. He played very well in the 15 final but was brutally hacked down. He was outstanding in the 2016 final but was unlucky. Not his fault that Bravo pulled off one of the GOAT saves.
Was he one dimensional? probably but he played brilliantly regardless. Lets not kid ourselves. If a Zidane or an Iniesta pulled off that performance, they would be praised to the high heavens.
Just consider Zidane's performance against Brazil in 2006. Frankly that Brazilian team was the most unprofessional big team in recent memory. A bunch of overweight has beens. Roberto Carlos on his haunches allowing a free header in a WC knockout match.
Zidane had a couple of nice youtube moments but created jack in the game. Yet it gets labelled as some sort of legendary performance. I ask you the same question. What did Zidane, the legendary playmaker create against Brazil?
Or take Iniesta in the recent Copa Del Rey final. A great performance and he rightfully gets lauded for it. But again didnt create much.

Point being, standards are different for Messi than other GOATS. The same standards need to be applied to all GOATS.

Standards are different for Messi than other GOATS? I constantly see people undermine the achievements of past legends, in order to promote Messi. Hell, as brilliant as Messi was in Copa this year, you're comparing his performance in that tournament to performances by past GOATS in world cups Oh, yeah.. and it's all Higuaín's fault

Could not agree more with alex. Great posts!

Thimmy wrote:Standards are different for Messi than other GOATS? I constantly see people undermine the achievements of past legends, in order to promote Messi. Hell, as brilliant as Messi was in Copa this year, you're comparing his performance in that tournament to performances by past GOATS in world cups Oh, yeah.. and it's all Higuaín's fault

I did not. I mentioned in another thread that post this Copa, Messi had a very good NT career. And while other GOATS might have had better NT careers, it wouldnt be by much.I also didnt compare Copa to WC. If you see the other thread, I compared WC performance to WC performances and continental tournament performances to continental tournament performances.
And yes, different standards are applied to Messi. I just pointed out one such example. futbol mentioned assists and took a swipe at Messi's playmaking ability. If thats the case, then it entirely fair game to ask what Zidane created against Brazil or Italy?

If you want a like to like comparison, what did Zidane(the supposed NT GOAT) create in the 2000 Euro final?He was poor and couldnt create much. In fact, dont think Zidane has a single open play assist in WC or Euro knockouts. Viera has more than him. Messi has quite a few open play assists in Copa and WC knockouts.
I can extend the same for Maradona and others.

I agree that there are people who hype Messi and play down the achievements of past legends. But one shouldnt go to the other extreme. Before the Copa knockouts, I said he needed a legendary knockouts to cement his legacy. IMO he delivered and his standing has gone up imo.

but riquelme 2007 copa final's performance > messi 2014 copa final

do you agree, alex?

Argentina got destroyed 3-0 in that final against Brazil's B team. If anyone shined in that final it was Robinho

I agree on the standards thing mind you, constantly see how group stages don't matter and suddenly when Payet does it then it's suddenly ok.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I agree on the standards thing mind you, constantly see how group stages don't matter and suddenly when Payet does it  then it's suddenly ok.

I'm surprised you dint call Payet dogshite in the KO's....

(:

rincon wrote:Argentina got destroyed 3-0 in that final against Brazil's B team. If anyone shined in that final it was Robinho

you mean riquelme suppose to save those 3 goals?

No, I mean Riquelme is supposed to do more against a midfield entirely composed of scrubs instead of losing 3-0 while surrounded with Cambiasso, Mascherano, Veron, Messi and Tevez if he is to be hyped.

No one in Argentina deserves any praise for that final. Most embarrassing loss for them in my lifetime. Strange to pick that game to hype Riquelme.

rincon wrote:Argentina got destroyed 3-0 in that final against Brazil's B team. If anyone shined in that final it was Robinho

what was robinho did in that match?

rincon wrote:No, I mean Riquelme is supposed to do more against a midfield entirely composed of scrubs instead of losing 3-0 while surrounded with Cambiasso, Mascherano, Veron, Messi and Tevez if he is to be hyped.

No one in Argentina deserves any praise for that final. Most embarrassing loss for them in my lifetime. Strange to pick that game to hype Riquelme.

tell me that above video was worse performance compare with any portugal players did in the 2016 euro final vs france

Robinho lit up the Copa becoming the top goalscorer and best player. At the final, particularly, he lifted the trophy. Mineiro, Josue, Elano, Wagner Love, Baptista that was literally the worst squad Brazil has sent to a tournament in a long time. And they trumped all-star argentina 3-0 in a final.

guest_07 wrote:

rincon wrote:No, I mean Riquelme is supposed to do more against a midfield entirely composed of scrubs instead of losing 3-0 while surrounded with Cambiasso, Mascherano, Veron, Messi and Tevez if he is to be hyped.

No one in Argentina deserves any praise for that final. Most embarrassing loss for them in my lifetime. Strange to pick that game to hype Riquelme.

tell me that above video was worse performance compare with any portugal players did in the 2016 euro final vs france

Who is talking about Portugal? This is Argentina, have some perspective.

Abbondanzieri; Zanetti, Heinze, Ayala, Milito; Riquelme, Cambiasso, Mascherano, Veron, Messi, Tevez

They were favorites by so, so much in that game. And they got embarrassed.

rincon wrote:

guest_07 wrote:

rincon wrote:No, I mean Riquelme is supposed to do more against a midfield entirely composed of scrubs instead of losing 3-0 while surrounded with Cambiasso, Mascherano, Veron, Messi and Tevez if he is to be hyped.

No one in Argentina deserves any praise for that final. Most embarrassing loss for them in my lifetime. Strange to pick that game to hype Riquelme.

did you see the video i shown to you

please describe the performance whether it was good or bad




tell me that above video was worse performance compare with any portugal players did in the 2016 euro final vs france

Who is talking about Portugal? This is Argentina, have some perspective.

Abbondanzieri; Zanetti, Heinze, Ayala, Milito; Riquelme, Cambiasso, Mascherano, Veron, Messi, Tevez

They were favorites by so, so much in that game. And they got embarrassed.