QF: Germany vs Italy (July 2nd)

I lived in both Mannheim and Heidelberg as a kid, and I remember the locals were always convinced they would win any football match against any other national team. Maybe things have changed, but I doubt it.

breva wrote:I lived in both Mannheim and Heidelberg as a kid, and I remember the locals were always convinced they would win any football match against any other national team.  Maybe things have changed, but I doubt it.

That's not specific to Germans, though. You'll always have overly confident people in every single nation, always convinced they'll win no matter how weak they are, no matter how strong the opposition is.

If a midfield of Parolo-Sturaro-Giaccherini beats Germany than all their players above ~23 years old should retire from the national team

Trapattoni being the GOAT he is:

"Germany like Merkel, wants to dominate and we suffer"

"They feel really strong, then we arrive, with so many sins but brilliant. And we put them in crisis."

"For me it ends in extra time again and we win."

breva wrote:I lived in both Mannheim and Heidelberg as a kid, and I remember the locals were always convinced they would win any football match against any other national team. Maybe things have changed, but I doubt it.

That's just fair weather fans anywhere. Go into a sports bar in Heidelberg right now and people will be proper respectful of Italy. Go into a random pub and it's "zomg Germany beats everythings!".

The Demon of Carthage wrote:

breva wrote:I lived in both Mannheim and Heidelberg as a kid, and I remember the locals were always convinced they would win any football match against any other national team.  Maybe things have changed, but I doubt it.

That's not specific to Germans, though. You'll always have overly confident people in every single nation, always convinced they'll win no matter how weak they are, no matter how strong the opposition is.

The great majority of Italians in Italy are always pessimistic as to the chances of the National team. Italian-Americans tend to be more optimistic.

The broad German consensus is always that we'll go out in the group stages. Has been since the '90s. It's just the hoo-rah crowd of semi supporters in it for the party that assume we'll beat everyone. I don't think it's really any form of arrogance, it's just people hoping for the awesome party you get when winning a tournament.

The WC win celebrations were awesome, and terrifying, and netted me a new watch. You kind of get overexcited after that.

It was nice to reach the quarter finals...

No Verratti
No Marchisio
No Motta
No DDR

Need a frecking miracle. If Germany lose they should hand their World Cup trophy back ffs.

Crimson lol

Welcome back

Crimson wrote:No Verratti
No Marchisio
No Motta
No DDR

Need a frecking miracle. If Germany lose they should hand their World Cup trophy back ffs.

It's already miracle they beat Belgium and Spain when you consider the attacking trio of Giaccherini, Eder and Graziano Pelle...  now add that the entire midfield is either injured or suspended, I agree with you.

Spain and Belgium were very stupid tactically. You know Italy can only beat you playing one way. Why would you just ignore that?

1:35-1:55

Yeah saw a documentary about the Italian community in Germany made in 2006 for that semifinal ( I believe our community is one of mostly numerous  there, as I said I has a sister to live in Nurnberg too   ) and ppl were terrified if they lost the match
Anyway , "about " the German ppl are convinced to destroy us "  , popular leit motiv whenever there is Germany-Italy in Italy  , probably it' also a matter of Italian attitude TBH, I don't deny it , because we need to feel the adversity, feeling to have anyone against us, so as to make better . Platness is not for us. And so we search just what we want , so suddenly the Der Spiegel (  blamed often of anti-Italianism in Italy, this is its consideration in Italy  ) becomes the most important German newspaper .. and noone look at those Germany factions worried and respectful about that NT (as Viva said)  that it represents a curse.
Anyway German GL users are all great
Still I remind when Hans translated me German pieces ( and pronunciations ) for university, I was finished otherwise

No DDR! Italy might actually have a shot now!

Robespierre wrote:
Anyway German GL users are all great
Still I remind when Hans translated me German pieces ( and pronunciations ) for university, I was finished otherwise

I'm not the only one .
Hans, and other GL German users, how close are you to Passau? We can watch Italy - Wales together in the final.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:No DDR! Italy might actually have a shot now!

DDR is an ambiguous acronym for this match tbh

Anyway , for how much I agree about De Rossi being a weakness for AS Roma, he always plays very well with Italy ( the Anti-Messi ) and besides Thiago Motta was banned

Getting back him would be vital

Robespierre wrote:
1:35-1:55

Yeah saw a documentary about the Italian community in Germany made in 2006 for that semifinal ( I believe our community is one of mostly numerous  there, as I said I has a sister to live in Nurnberg too   ) and ppl were terrified if they lost the match
Anyway , "about " the German ppl are convinced to destroy us "  , popular leit motiv whenever there is Germany-Italy in Italy  , probably it' also a matter of Italian attitude TBH, I don't deny it , because we need to feel the adversity, feeling to have anyone against us, so as to make better . Platness is not for us. And so we search just what we want , so suddenly the Der Spiegel (  blamed often of anti-Italianism in Italy, this is its consideration in Italy  ) becomes the most important German newspaper .. and noone look at those Germany factions worried and respectful about that NT (as Viva said)  that it represents a curse.
Anyway German GL users are all great
Still I remind when Hans translated me German pieces ( and pronunciations ) for university, I was finished otherwise

The anti-Italian songs were extremely helpful in 2006. I was in Italy at the time and even in Tuscany, where people are relatively less colorful than the southern Italians, the people were very offended. I am sure the Italian players were also affected, they don't live in a vacuum.

Ion Creanga wrote:

Robespierre wrote:
Anyway German GL users are all great
Still I remind when Hans translated me German pieces ( and pronunciations ) for university, I was finished otherwise

I'm not the only one .
Hans, and other GL German users, how close are you to Passau? We can watch Italy - Wales together in the final.

I'm in Berlin, so geographically I'm almost, and in spirit maximally, as far removed from Passau as possible

I'm about 600km away from Passau. Hey, I'm in Prussian area, and in Passau there are Bavarians who are often somewhat strange ^^

Not just any Bavarians. Niederbayern. Deepest hillbilly territory. It's what the movie 'Deliverance' was based on.

Never will I set foot in Passau.

So basically, what the English feel about the Germans - they will step up in crunch time, they will find ways to win games even if not playing well, a sense of depressed resignation at their ability to deliver when needed, they have a stronger, more cynical and ruthless mentality, 22 players chasing the ball in the end the Germans win, they'll beat us every single time etc - is exactly what the Germans feel about the Italians.

Not me though. Not this time. We'll beat them comprehensively, 2-1.

VivaStPauli wrote:Never will I set foot in Passau.

why is that?

Ion Creanga wrote:

VivaStPauli wrote:Never will I set foot in Passau.

why is that?

Cesspool of Bavarian redneckdom, I just don't want some weird fundamentalist Catholic goat herder to wear my face-skin as a banana hammock before boning his inbred sister-wife. Steering clear of that forsaken wasteland of a Bundesland.

That being said, if Wales can beat Belgium, and Iceland can beat England, we have at least a tiny chance of beating Italy.

Last time, in 2012, I felt certain that this was the moment when Germany would break our record. They were, in my opinion, the best side in Europe at that point in time and had the team to exploit our weaknesses. Loew however came to our rescue, crippling his own side in an attempt to shackle our game rather than assert his own. In that instance, history truly did mean something. The fear of Italy helped to create a disadvantage that had no reason to exist.

This time though, things are slightly different. Whilst only a friendly, Loew has now beaten Italy and comprehensively, only a few months past. For Belgium, this feat was a false dawn. Conte learnt from the game and prepared their demise. Germany however lack their significant weaknesses. A little lack of pace in midfield, untested fullbacks at international level and an attack that's strangely out of form perhaps, but certainly they're a far more organised and cohesive unit than the Belgians. Conte will no doubt have an idea of how to unsettle certain areas of the side, but there will be, I fear, simply too great a talent disparity to overcome.

Giaccherini and Parolo have put in heroic performances thus far. I thought the former was close to being our MOTM against Spain, essentially playing two roles in midfield and attack for well over an hour before slowing out of exhaustion. Against Spain, for the first time, they also put in consistent, effective performances in possession. Whilst I heavily criticised our game with the ball in the group stages, Conte rectified this against Spain. We were composed and thoughtful. We had a clear idea of how we would move the ball up the pitch, how we would create multiple passing options and when we needed to change the tempo. This was in part facilitated though by Spain's disjointed attempts to put pressure on the ball carrier. The German midfield will bring a great deal more physicality to this battle and will also be far better equipped to hurt us on the transition.

Last time around, we boasted Pirlo, De Rossi, Marchisio and Montolivo in the centre of the park, all who put in an exemplary performance on and off the ball that day. Now we've lost even an ageing De Rossi for this encounter, who would have been critical, not only for the protection he gives but his ability as the first pass out from the back. Without him we lose penetration and reliability with the ball. Though Parolo will provide endless stamina and an aerial presence in this position, he's far less adept at intercepting the ball and in tackling. More concerning however is Sturaro's presence beside him. He's an energetic tackler and a true fighter but he's shown this past season that he's very susceptible to panic on the ball when under pressure. We can't afford to give the ball away in our own half against Germany. He'll need to play the game of his life tonight. I would almost have suggested placing Florenzi there instead, with Darmian at RWB, in order to make best use of his pace against a lethargic pivot of Khedira and Kroos, but I'm not certain I trust him to have the necessary discipline off the ball in such a complicated tie. I still have concerns about him even on the wing, but he did well against Spain when he finally kept it simple on the ball. He's still a liability in the box and a worry if any of Germany's attackers or Khedira drift onto him for an aerial challenge but we're not about to do anything differently all of a sudden.

Another glaring concern I have with facing Germany, as opposed to the challenge posed by the Spanish, is their ability from outside the box. We've been excellent at covering long range efforts in general throughout the tournament, though Iniesta and Nainggolan were still able to summon efforts, but this will be even more important tonight.

All in all, despite the history of this fixture, Germany are deservedly favourites. Conte's a potential trump card against Loew but with our only two anchors missing, I feel there's too much against us. Should have brought another one, but too late now. That's Conte's fault but what is more important is that he's helped those he has brought to believe they can get a result. It's up to them now to prove he's right.

Agreed on that analysis, as always Dosto.

Italy must be humble. I think that's the simplest way I can put it regarding this match. Conte knows tactical humbleness better than most coaches so I think he'll get these guys approaching this match in the right mindset.

Most importantly though, Italy must have a perfect match against Germany if they are going to get through this one to the next round. I personally think Germany are still a tad soft out wide with their untested full-backs, but Italy only use wide play when it suits them so not sure how much advantage that gives them, if any at all. Everywhere else, it must be said that the Germans may have even overmatched them.

That said, I won't underestimate the grinta this Italy side has. Conte's side rarely get blown out so if they go down today, they're going to do it in fairly scrappy fashion.

As for Germany, I'm curious whether their misfiring attack can get it together against one of the best back lines in the tournament, on paper. Plenty of quality there, but not a lot of form, not that I think that'll stop guys like Muller burying a chance if he gets one, but this is not the defense they tore apart back in March.

Always a fascinating fixture. Obviously rooting for Italy though.