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19:14 - JUVE HAS FINISHED TRAINING OF EVE - has just finished today's workout Juventus. Massimiliano Allegri could test the training that will play tomorrow night. It is foreseeable that against Fiorentina coach Livorno put his men in the field with the 3-5-2 formation: in the door there are no doubts and play Buffon. As well as in defense it will be the turn of reviewing the first minute Barzagli, Bonucci and Chiellini. In midfield, on the right should act Dani Alves, in the middle into two seem to be certain of the place and it's Khedira and Asamoah, and the role of director contend for Pjanic and Lemina. In fact, everything will depend on the physical condition of the Bosnian, if there is no will of course be replaced by the number 18 Juventus. Also for the left left wing there is a little doubt, as they are in run-off Alex Sandro and Evra. In attack, as told by Allegri, certainty is Dybala, at his side should be Mandzukic, but it is not impossible that there may be Higuain.

OFFICIAL: #watfordfc are delighted to confirm the signing of Roberto Pereyra from Juventus on a long-term deal.

Official: Pereyra joins Watford
As expected, Juventus have sold Roberto Pereyra to Walter Mazzarri’s Watford for a reported €13m plus €2m bonuses.

Updating in and out list.

In :
Higuain - €90M
Pjanic - €32M
Alves - €0
Benatia - €3M loan
Pjaca - €23M
Lemina - €9.5M

Total : €157.5M

Out :
Pogba - €105M + €5M bonuses
Morata - €30M
Pereyra  - €13M + €2M add ons
Isla - €4M
Padoin - €0.6M
Caceres - €0
Rubinho - €0
Magnusson - €2.5M
Buchel - €1.2M
Fiorillo - €1M
Gabriel Appelt - €1M

Total - €160.3M

Beppe Marotta confirmed Juventus are “optimistic” over Juan Cuadrado from Chelsea, while there’s still time to sell Simone Zaza.

The director of sport spoke to Mediaset Premium ahead of tonight’s Serie A opener against Fiorentina. You can follow the action on the LIVEBLOG.

“I hope that over the next few days we can conclude the Cuadrado deal,” said Marotta.

The Colombian was not even on the bench for today’s 2-1 win away to Watford, fuelling reports he’ll arrive on loan for €3.5m.

“For now he is a Chelsea player. We presented a proposal to them and are waiting for a response, but we are optimistic.”

The race is still on to find a midfielder to replace Paul Pogba, although it may well be two.

“We are seeking a player who is suitable for our team. We also hope that within two months Claudio Marchisio will be back at our disposal.”

Zaza’s transfer to Wolfsburg collapsed at the last minute, but there is still interest from West Ham United and Milan.

“We spoke to Zaza. The transfer is not a punishment, but he would undoubtedly find more space elsewhere,” continued Marotta.

“There was the Wolfsburg idea, but it all fell apart. Over the final 10 days of the transfer window, we’ve got all the time to find him a new club.”

I have a feeling:

-Cuadrado in
-Lichtsteiner and Zaza out
-A midfielder of quality in (I'm going to guess Matuidi)

I think we'll keep Licht and Alves and Cuadrado. Maybe we aren't convinced of Alves yet?

I think its more Lichtsteiner won't accept this back up role, which is more of a theory of mine more than anything.

Cuadrado gives us great flexibility and depth, his signing makes great sense

If Cuadrado comes then Litch might want out.

Litchsteiner out for Dani Alves is a sad thought. Litch is a symbol of this new successful Juve. All of the titles have been won with him as an undisputed starter. He scored the first goal in the Juventus stadium in a competitive match and kick started our season in Conte's debut. He had a heart operation and came back running just as much. He is extremely reliable.

Alves has great quality, but he is not and will never be Juve like Litch is. Nothing about Dani Alves is Juventus. Its hard to think of a player in our teams that is more opposite to our norm than he is. He brings something else that will help us a lot, but he wont be a symbol of the club, not even in the way Evra is (who also joined the club as an older player).

I'd never sign Alves to replace Litch, as a compliment its great. But if it means that Litch leaves then its a mistake. Alves-Cuadrado doesn't seem better than Litch-Cuadrado. A defensive option (Litch) is always needed, and Cuadrado (or Alves) more than covers the offense, both (Alves and Cuadrado) is overkill if there is no defensive alternative.

If all three are here then its of course great.

Personally, I don't see it that way @rincon

Dani Alves is an obvious improvement to Lichtsteiner and while I do respect what Lichtsteiner has done at Juventus and I do admire him as a classy person, I would much rather Alves. Lichtsteiner is symbolic of Conte's Juventus and the mentality that he brought onto this time which has basically kick started this team to the well-oiled machine we witness today.

But as for symbols of Juventus, that's Agnelli, Boniperti, Del Piero, Buffon etc., for me, not Lichtsteiner. If he leaves because he insists on being a starter, I respect that but to prefer him over Dani Alves? No, for me.

Dani Alves is the perfect competitor, he is of pure quality and a certified winner. To me, he is very symbolic of Juventus. If players like Dani Alves, Higuain and Pjanic can get us to the Champions League final that we desperately crave, then I am for it.

This team is certainly more than the names on the back of the shirts. Its easier for me to say this about Lichtsteiner because I'm one of the few that doesn't rate him as high, I like Lichtsteiner but he's not irreplaceable.

Remember that Alves has never performed for Brazil as he did for Barca. Every time he was tried and every time he was benched by other fullbacks (like Maicon) or simply flopped. When out of his perfect Barca setup he has been exposed. The same wad evident this first game. Now with us he has time to adapt, unlike with his NT, and he will play as a wing back which suits him. But then what does he bring, tactically, that Cuadrado didn't bring last season?

If we go into a back 4 then for me there is no doubt that I would rather have Litchsteiner. Specially if Marchisio is not shielding the defense anymore. At Barca he had Busquets drop to cover him. Will Pjanic be effective doing that? Probably not. He is in his 30s, if he hasn't found his game for his NT as a RB then I don't expect a drastic change. He only fits the 3-5-2.

Alves-Cuadrado is redundant if there is no Litch or De Sciglio. It doesn't allow for the tactical flexibility of last season. The only option to close a game would be playing Stuaro as RWB or Barzagli as RB.

Going into the season without a proper reliable right back is a mistake.

And what if we play 4-3-3? like it seems very possible. Cuadrado and Alves on the right at the same time? We better hope that we dominate because otherwise we'd get wrecked on the counter.

I belive Allegri wants Cuadrado for his 4-3-3 in the CL moreso than the 3-5-2. As rincon pointed out we have Alves for the 3-5-2 so Cuadrado is redundant. Allegri has stated that to be successful in the CL we must follow Bayern, Barca and Madrid who all play with 3 forwards up front in order to provide the attack needed to score goals.

3-5-2 has been exposed in Europe. We didn't even play it against Barca in the final, we played 4-3-1-2 with Vidal as the CAM. I know we will be much more aggressive with Sandro and Alves in the 3-5-2 but Allegri wants the option to have the 3 man forward line in the CL.

As for Lichtsteiner he would be first choice RB in a 4-3-3 with Cuadrado as the RW. I highly doubt Allegri would play Alves and Cuadrado together on the same side in a 4-3-3. If Licht leaves then I believe we would go after De Sciglio who would be a perfect replacement. MDS is equally adept at defending as he is in pushing forward and can also play the left side. I think there is merit to the Zaza MDS swap. However if Licht stays then I believe Zaza will be sold to West Ham on a loan to purchase option as Ayew is out 4 months.

rincon wrote:Remember that Alves has never performed for Brazil as he did for Barca. Every time he was tried and every time he was benched by other fullbacks (like Maicon) or simply flopped. When out of his perfect Barca setup he has been exposed. The same wad evident this first game. Now with us he has time to adapt, unlike with his NT, and he will play as a wing back which suits him. But then what does he bring, tactically, that Cuadrado didn't bring last season?

If we go into a back 4 then for me there is no doubt that I would rather have Litchsteiner. Specially if Marchisio is not shielding the defense anymore. At Barca he had Busquets drop to cover him. Will Pjanic be effective doing that? Probably not. He is in his 30s, if he hasn't found his game for his NT as a RB then I don't expect a drastic change. He only fits the 3-5-2.

Alves-Cuadrado is redundant if there is no Litch or De Sciglio. It doesn't allow for the tactical flexibility of last season. The only option to close a game would be playing Stuaro as RWB or Barzagli as RB.

Going into the season without a proper reliable right back is a mistake.

And what if we play 4-3-3? like it seems very possible. Cuadrado and Alves on the right at the same time? We better hope that we dominate because otherwise we'd get wrecked on the counter.

See, my problem with this is as follows:

Dani Alves with Brazil does not necessarily translate to his form with Juventus, just like Barcelona, he has fantastic players around him and consistent success. How many players did we sign who were supposed to be finished? Or were not good with their previous club, or in the Champions League or with their national team? Khedira was broken, Pirlo was finished, Tevez was a Champions League flop, Higuain is the ultimate big game flop.

They are great objections to have but we have to let it play out before we are so quick to judge. For all purposes, Dani Alves is a better player than Lichtsteiner.

As for the 4-3-3, I really don't think we will play this formation this season much at all and I'll tell you why. We signed Benatia, that leaves us with 5 great central defenders for 2 spots if we play a 4-3-3, now we can look at every big club- Bayern, Barcelona, Real Madrid, no team has 5 central defenders of that quality for two positions- they don't even have 4 options that great. So it's hard to imagine that Juventus will leave 3 of: Barzagli, Bonucci, Chiellini, Benatia and Rugani on the bench. The team is super comfortable in this formation and the squad has been assembled to play a 3-5-2 (which I'm not saying is a good thing, but it is true). While we may play a 4-3-3 on very rare occasion or switch to it in certain moments, I cannot see it being used for any run of games unless there are special circumstances. In any case, Dani Alves has played in a back 4 for his entire career, I trust in his quality.

I can't type long posts but wholeheartedly agree with Luca on both of his posts

Couldn't agree more.

I'm not explaining myself properly. Alves is one of the best in the world at what he does. I am not saying he is finished or a scrub, just that his skillset is very attacking. He is tailor made to be a wing back. And a better wing back than Litch at that.

Like you say, our team is made for the 3-5-2 of course I agree, but that's what makes signing Cuadrado pointless. Subbing in Cuadrado for Alves is a like-for-like substitution. While having Litch sub for Alves allows us to change our tactics. Last years pair of Litch/Cuadrado was great, this years pair of Alves/Litch will be great. But a pair of Alves/Cuadrado leaves us short of options.

At times a back 4 will be used, Allegri has already said so. He also has used it this past two seasons as an option, so it only makes sense that we continue to rely on tactical variations. In a back 4, for Juventus, Alves is a huge risk. We don't control the ball like Barcelona, and we won't have Busquets to cover Alves. If pjanic plays regista and Khedira RCM (who is our most "free" midfielder) then we need a defensive right back like Litch (or MDS).

No need to sacrifice solidity and tactical options for fancy names. Letting Litch go now would be a mistake unless we got De Sciglio. Let him stay a year and then we get De Sciglio or Darmian.

Think of how much Allegri relied on Evra even though we have Sandro. Same situation.

It doesn't sound like Marotta wants to move Zaza to an Italian rival so I don't think a ZAZA MDS swap will occur. So Licht will most likely be staying.

As for Cuadrado again I don't think he would be in competition with Alves, I think his signing is more to do with Allegri wanting to play 4-3-3 on occasion, specifically in the CL against the big boys. I doubt you will see much of Cuadrado in the 3-5-2 with Alves as the starter unless it's a substitutes role in the second half. And in a 4-3-3 Licht would most likely start but Alves is an option as well, it all depends on the competition.

In summary I think we will use Cuadrado as a sub in the second half or for injury in the 3-5-2 and then use him as a starter at RW in a 4-3-3.

@rincon

I agree that Lichtsteiner in the back four is a great option, I'm not sure if I necessarily believe that Dani Alves is a huge risk in the same back four but I do see your point.

My point is that if Lichtsteiner doesn't accept this role of being a back 4 specialist (let's call him that for the time being), and will leave if he's not first choice then it is out of our hands. To me, our team is much stronger with Dani Alves on the field. In the times we do play a 4-3-3, it already implies we will be attacking even more so there is always the chance that we will be negatively impacted defensively, while compared to a 3-5-2.

As for the Sandro-Evra situation, it's fitting but with all due respect to both players, Dani Alves is better than both and Lichtsteiner. I'm very high on his quality as a player and he's a certified winner and I love that attitude and presence he brings to our team.

@gigi about Zaza, I don't think it's so much that we don't want to sell to an Italian rival as much as they just don't have the money to buy him. Wolfsburg put 25M on the table, as did West Ham (according to reports earlier this summer), so for us to discount that fee to an Italian club doesn't seem likely. I think Zaza at Roma would be pretty devastating but it doesn't look like they have the funds to launch a bid either, or just are not interested. I'm sure it'll be an English team that comes forward.

Yeah Luca I agree. Apparently Zaza's papa has been talking about his son wanting to go to the EPL, so it looks like it will be West Ham or Tottenham from all accounts. Hopefully it's a straight purchase but I have a feeling it will be a loan to purpose option route. Which is fine as I don't think we are blowing big money anymore anyways. Cuadrado is just a loan deal and our options at midfield are limited right now. Don't think we're gonna pay $40M to PSG for Matuidi, so it might be someone in the $20M range tbat comes.

So Zaza's money will just be used next year to purchase Berardi I suppose...  

Zaza would strenghten any Serie A side, exception made of Juventus. That's why its unthinkable to sell him in Italy. He'll end up in a BPL club like Sunderland or West Brom.

Despite having the first touch of a rapist, he is quite decent technically and brings heat in the offensive zone by himself. Wish him success because at the end of the day he has no chance to shine at Juventus but shouldn't be considered as an outcast. H-D-M are simply better.

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About Cuadrado, i see him as a replacement/improvement for the departure of Pereyra. I don't see the point of playing him as a right back just because he can do it. His offensive abilities outshines his defensive work. Might as well use him as a supersub for the winger/AM or even mezzala role.

About Cuadrado, i see him as a replacement/improvement for the departure of Pereyra. I don't see the point of playing him as a right back just because he can do it. His offensive abilities outshines his defensive work. Might as well use him as a supersub for the winger/AM or even mezzala role

Cuadrado is a jolly.We can use him in many positions and he is guaranteed to give the game another rythm.

He may not make a final pass like Pjanic or finish like Higuain but we have had no such a explosive player in years and he is effective enough.
Having him with us for one more year is a move that guarantees success , a stability we need because we have changed a lot the last year team.He is reliable and will be even more important this year.

Maybe, I'm missing something, but I don't understand why we're so willing to sell Zaza unless there is a plan to bring another forward into the squad. We can't go into the season with three forwards, especially with the way teams are going to target and rough up Dybala. I was worried that Dybala was going to be injured in the Fiorentina match with the way they were targeting him. And I don't think Pjaca is the answer as a striker. If Marotta knows that Gabigol is coming, that's fine. But, if Zaza goes, I think another striker needs to join.

No room for him in the 25-man squad.

Also we can probably display a lone striker upfront if someone is injured. Something like a 3-4-3 with Pjaca and Cuadrado on both wings. Even a 5-2-3 or 5-4-1 could be competitive.

As you can see i personally don't expect Juve to play often with a back 4 this season... too many talented CB's for that.

heffkzar wrote:No room for him in the 25-man squad.

Also we can probably display a lone striker upfront if someone is injured. Something like a 3-4-3 with Pjaca and Cuadrado on both wings. Even a 5-2-3 or 5-4-1 could be competitive.

As you can see i personally don't expect Juve to play often with a back 4 this season... too many talented CB's for that.

I understand that there isn't room for him in terms of playing time, but you need four strikers over the course of a long season of UCL, Serie A, and Coppa Italia. All it would take is a couple injuries up front, which isn't unheard of and we would be in trouble.

I'm sure he could get some playing time in CL/Coppa. It's in terms of rules that we can't keep him.

GK (3): Buffon, Neto, Audero*
Def (9): BBC, Benatia, Rugani*, Alves, Licht, Evra, Sandro
Mid (9): Marchisio*, Khedira, Pjanic, Lemina, Asamoah, Sturaro, Cuadrado, Marrone*, new CM/DM
Att (4): Higuain, Dybala, Manduzkic, Pjaca

- Zaza is not under 21 years of age so if you want him on the list you have to remove someone.
- Asterisk means the player is "club trained". I removed Hernanes because it makes more sense that we keep Marrone who fills this rule instead of the brazilian. Yet i don't even know if he's on loan or not at this moment so i might be wrong.