Donald Trump watch

DuringTheWar wrote:I'm speculating here but I don't think any candidate in history has ever been the subject of a hate campaign as intense and wide as the axis of entertainment and news media aimed at Donald Trump.

You are definitely wrong about that; but let's just say "no candidate in modern democracies" and you're probably right. He's also the most ridiculous, racist, homophobic, islamophobic, and chauvinistic candidate of a major party I've witnessed in my short life time.

This guy is whaling about how Trump's success has been brought about by the "culture industry", I'm sorry, this is just retarded. It really is. It's not even that it isn't true, it's projection. The 'culture industry' tried to elect Hillary. This guy should cheer up, the kind of mass manipulation he's talking about failed.

No, he's still right. He's not talking about direct manipulation or brain washing to get Trump elected. He's talking about the celebrity culture the Western World has been cultivating. Trump got elected for what people want him to be, not what he is. That's basically impossible without celebrity culture.

The article finishes off with a subtle call for censorship under the banner of 'fake news' and claims that America's moral mantle has passed over to Germany because of that 'liberal democracy' 's restrictions on free speech. Germany also being a country where it isn't even legal to homeschool your children. A true bastion of freedom... NOT.

Freedom of speech never covered, or was intended to cover, lying. Freedom of speech guarantees the right to voice your opinion, not to make up facts.
TBH I greatly agree with the prohibition of home schooling because children are minors, they should have the chance to decide themselves whether they want to separate themselves from society when they grow up; home schooling gives parents the opportunity to isolate their kids from society.
I know lots of honest and decent people homeschool, but for me, it just sounds like something the Aryan Brotherhood would do. Or Creationists. You know. Crazy people.

That was a shit attempt at Orwellian doublespeak.

I give it a score of 2/10

Even if I were to agree with you, which I don't, my focus on the article, the part I greatly enjoyed, was the notion that the Left f*cked up and forgot about the economic aspect. Not the policy part, but communicating it.
There is a huge disparity in division of income and wealth, and until the poorest parts of society receive a bigger piece of the pie, you will have unrest. And the American left has, bar Sanders, and a while back John Edwards, completely ignored that part of modern Liberalism.

Ironically it was Trump who figured out that this might be his ticket. And it's double-irony with extra sauce and a topping of sarcasm that all his policy changes will absolutely f*ck anyone over who has an income below 250k.

The Donald quite simply doesn't take shit from anybody.

If a kid next door shows him the tongue he's going to tweet something about how kids are not even able to live properly on their own.

Good for him.

VivaStPauli wrote:

DuringTheWar wrote:I'm speculating here but I don't think any candidate in history has ever been the subject of a hate campaign as intense and wide as the axis of entertainment and news media aimed at Donald Trump.

You are definitely wrong about that; but let's just say "no candidate in modern democracies" and you're probably right. He's also the most ridiculous, racist, homophobic, islamophobic, and chauvinistic candidate of a major party I've witnessed in my short life time.

Islamophobia: "dislike of or prejudice against Islam or Muslims, especially as a political force"

Tell me how much you like Islam...
In fact, I know from your previous comments that you want western countries to de-Islamify muslim migrants, so you clearly dislike Islam, and therefore are Islamophobic, as per the accepted definition.

I understand the thought process that says Trump is a racist even though he probably isn't, but what evidence is there he dislikes homosexuality? Because of Pence? Is there anything bad trump has ever said about homosexuality?

No, he's still right. He's not talking about direct manipulation or brain washing to get Trump elected. He's talking about the celebrity culture the Western World has been cultivating. Trump got elected for what people want him to be, not what he is. That's basically impossible without celebrity culture.

Statements like this require lots of evidence. If it is correct, there is a certain irony to the fact that celebrities pooled all their influence to get Clinton elected.

Freedom of speech never covered, or was intended to cover, lying. Freedom of speech guarantees the right to voice your opinion, not to make up facts.

Who's going to work at the Ministry of Truth to arbitrate on the facts and oversee punishment of factcriminals?

TBH I greatly agree with the prohibition of home schooling because children are minors, they should have the chance to decide themselves whether they want to separate themselves from society when they grow up; home schooling gives parents the opportunity to isolate their kids from society.
I know lots of honest and decent people homeschool, but for me, it just sounds like something the Aryan Brotherhood would do. Or Creationists. You know. Crazy people.

You care so much about child autonomy that you want them subjugated to peer pressure. The notion of a liberating society vs despotic parents is a false dichotomy by people who resent the obstruction strong families present to the authority of any state.
Giving someone the decision themselves to decide if they want to separate from society, after years of making sure they are subject to group pressure from their peers, is very insincere.

There is a huge disparity in division of income and wealth, and until the poorest parts of society receive a bigger piece of the pie, you will have unrest. And the American left has, bar Sanders, and a while back John Edwards, completely ignored that part of modern Liberalism.

To the extent that humans are biologically disposed to reacting negatively to inequality, I agree there will be unrest.
But real material poverty does not exist in America, you just have lots and lots of people ruining their (and others') lives by making terrible decisions, practically and morally. Decisions the left, particularly the Sanders left, are just desperate to have proliferated through subsidisation.

But that's where I believe in moral agency and you believe in determinism, I guess.

DuringTheWar wrote:But real material poverty does not exist in America

Ah, so you've never left the house, watched the news, read a paper or a book, or spoken to anyone! That explains a lot.

VivaStPauli wrote:The left doesn't "have the media";
I know Colbert was joking when he said it, but it is true:
Reality has a liberal bias.

Just go onto any fact-checking site. Right-wing candidates lie way more than left-leaning candidates. And it's not because they're less nice. Clinton is a scheming power hungry maniac, just like Angela Merkel, but at the face of it, moderate and progressive policies seem to vibe with actual reality much more than old-school conservatism ore populist right-wing policy.

I'm actually sure people like the Clintons would lie as much as Trump if they didn't happen to play for the team that's more in tune with the actual facts of the day and age. I do believe they'd pick smarter lies, though.

I mean, just because Trump lies more doesn't make Clinton anywhere close to being honest. This is the same person that described deleting thousands of emails prior to FBI review as a "short circuit". There's probably no more than 5 policies she din't flip flop on over her campaigns.

VivaStPauli wrote:

DuringTheWar wrote:But real material poverty does not exist in America

Ah, so you've never left the house, watched the news, read a paper or a book, or spoken to anyone! That explains a lot.

Poverty doesn't exist in America.

This guy is just lying through his teeth now

"I will be the most presidential President you have ever seen"

Off to a good start Donald...

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

VivaStPauli wrote:The left doesn't "have the media";
I know Colbert was joking when he said it, but it is true:
Reality has a liberal bias.

Just go onto any fact-checking site. Right-wing candidates lie way more than left-leaning candidates. And it's not because they're less nice. Clinton is a scheming power hungry maniac, just like Angela Merkel, but at the face of it, moderate and progressive policies seem to vibe with actual reality much more than old-school conservatism ore populist right-wing policy.

I'm actually sure people like the Clintons would lie as much as Trump if they didn't happen to play for the team that's more in tune with the actual facts of the day and age. I do believe they'd pick smarter lies, though.

I mean, just because Trump lies more doesn't make Clinton anywhere close to being honest. This is the same person that described deleting thousands of emails prior to FBI review as a "short circuit". There's probably no more than 5 policies she din't flip flop on over her campaigns.

That's basically what I just said, yes.
You don't really disagree she still says less blatantly untrue things than Trump does, right? I mean not per se about herself, I mean about reality, and the world. Of course she lies about what she does, she's a career politician, and not one of the harmless ones.

VivaStPauli wrote:

DuringTheWar wrote:But real material poverty does not exist in America

Ah, so you've never left the house, watched the news, read a paper or a book, or spoken to anyone! That explains a lot.

I'm sure you will be able to provide a list of physical resources required for general sustenance that the bottom 10% of American citizens have no access to.

Should only take 30 seconds, but I'll wait longer if you need to bullshit your way out of it.

Hell, make it the bottom 0.1% if that's easier.

What's your point? That those living in poverty with shitty lives aren't actively dying, so...? Poverty doesn't exist?

Poverty is only poverty when you can barely eat, cannot shower, cannot get a job that pays money?

Just thought I'd give a hand since he asked for a link

http://www.census.gov/library/publications/2016/demo/p60-256.html

13.5% in 2015. A bit higher than that 0.1% he asked for.

@Rincon I should have said that I'm not blindly impressed by whatever definition of poverty some statisticians magically pull from their ass.

@cbarca

The fact that people have to add the prefix 'relative' to the word poverty in western countries says everything.

And relative to what? Monarchs with palaces of gold 200 years ago didn't have access to many of the amenities any American citizen can easily get access to, does that sound harsh? Doesn't matter, it's a fact.
The worst things about living in poor areas in America are the prevalence crime, drugs, lack of job opportunities in some places and going to schools where learning is nearly considered a crime.
Hence I agree there is a poverty of social capital, or 'behavioural poverty' as Thomas Sowell calls it, which is not the GOP's fault or because democrats are supposedly economically right wing.

And it's this thing that people on the left, typically, find it difficult to look at honestly.
Never hold someone accountable for their actions (unless they're really rich, or a bigot, I guess)). When your ideology makes you blame everything on a convenient scapegoat (Bernie: 'muh 1%') you're no longer capable of analysing and finding solutions to real problems.

And to top it all off, sheer conscientiousness, regardless of intelligence and any other factors, is a strong predictor of success. If jobs are there, people can help themselves, if they work hard they can/will improve their economic situation. When society acts like an overprotective mother to these people, it tends to kill off conscientiousness in the process.

@rincon

Still waiting for the list..

What list? you not accepting poverty doesn't mean its not there.

I think the disagreement is over the meaning of poverty. DTW is talking as if 'poverty means 'extreme poverty' (ie people dying of hunger and cold) which is rare in hte US and pretty much non existent. I mean, the US is a country where even the homeless have iPhones.

Everyone else is acting under the commonly accepted definition of 'poverty': lacking sufficient money to live at a standard considered comfortable or normal in a society.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Everyone else is acting under the commonly accepted definition of 'poverty': lacking sufficient money to live at a standard considered comfortable or normal in a society.

That is the definition of 'relative poverty', a nebulous constantly shifting concept.
Its meaning essentially is derived from the existence of inequality itself, not the actual conditions poor people live in. It isn't about poverty, it's about equality.

It gets weirder every day

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-press-conference-folders-business-plan-empire-blank-fake-handover-donald-jr-eric-a7523426.html

DuringTheWar wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Everyone else is acting under the commonly accepted definition of 'poverty': lacking sufficient money to live at a standard considered comfortable or normal in a society.

That is the definition of 'relative poverty', a nebulous constantly shifting concept.
Its meaning essentially is derived from the existence of inequality itself, not the actual conditions poor people live in. It isn't about poverty, it's about equality.

No it's literally the definition of simply 'poverty'. If you google "define poor" it's the first thing that comes up.

If you live in a state where you have to be extremely frugal merely to pay for shelter and food and an unexpected bill throws you into financial disarray that's poverty.

Pedram wrote:Trump shitting on the Clinton News Network felt really good.

Did it? Jim Acosta is a real journalist who actually is one of the people doing work on television.

Its a sad day for the press in this country when leadership can silence the free press with the accusation about fake news when the same network is the reason many in this country could see him. It wasn't the clinton network when they were hiring his fired campaign managers, and showing his empty podium during the primaries while Bernie, who had just won states, wasn't being broadcasted by them.

Absolutely merciless from Betty.

But seriously, I agree.

Scottish TV guide on Inauguration Day

He has been sworn as the 45th POTUS.

Shang Tsung approves.

So it actually happened. Lol.