GAME OF THRONES - PART 8 - *NO BOOK TALK - READ THE RULES*

Spoiler:

M99 wrote:Wanted to post something the Night King actor shared on EW. Spoilers.

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RealGunner wrote:

M99 wrote:Wanted to post something the Night King actor shared on EW. Spoilers.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Been binging all of GOT for the past month. Upon rewatch, it's very clear that GOT peaked in S4. Those last 4 episodes of the season where we got: Tyrion's trial by justice, trial by combat, Tywin's death, and the fight at the wall. Epic stuff.

...After that, the dialogue becomes less crisp, the character choices and arcs become more nonsensical and the show becomes more of a typical good vs evil fantasy show. We still get the occasional epic episode like Hardhome and some of the best acting in the series, but there's a definite drop in quality. Kind of a shame really. Wonder what the show could be if they never lost their raw material.

silver wrote:What!? Show went downhill after they stopped following the books. So many plotholes.

M99 wrote:S6 had good moments but pretty bad writing. They were bending over backwards to make Ramsey invincible before Jon and Sansa heroically defeated him. Also completely shat over The North Remembers, seeing season 2 and 3 and hearing those words make me hurt.

Sapochnik's episodes were fantastic, Hold The Door was amazing as well but lets not forget Arya vs Waif.

rincon wrote:

M99 wrote:S6 had good moments but pretty bad writing. They were bending over backwards to make Ramsey invincible before Jon and Sansa heroically defeated him. Also completely shat over The North Remembers, seeing season 2 and 3 and hearing those words make me hurt.

Sapochnik's episodes were fantastic, Hold The Door was amazing as well but lets not forget Arya vs Waif.

The north remembers is plain BS, which is in line with the books. It'd be more unrealistic that it would always hold true. Classic GRRM.

"The north remembers" but let 90% of us betray the Starks. It is even more through in the books with more time to elaborate on each house. Like that insane chapter of Davos in White Harbor where all the Manderlys recite out of scumbagness or fear that Robb turned into a wolf and killed his own men during the red wedding. Or the Umbers with one going to each side (Lannister vs north). Or the Boltons actually carrying out the red wedding. Or the Karstarks peacing out after Rickard's death.

Ramsey, 20-good-men aside, was much better done in the shows than in the books imo. He was a bigger part in the shows and was unbelievably well played by the actor. That was a GOAT TV villain. Makes you forget about some POS like Joffrey who was still great in his time. The pay off with Battle of the Bastards is a top 3 episode for me. Not only is the battle incredible, that last scene of Jon destroying him in the courtyard is perfect.

Spoiler:

rincon wrote:Book Ramsey gave me a sense of disgust and it's extremely clear that he is a monster, but show Ramsey took it to next level with how they handled for me. That "invincibility" added to sense of desperation regarding everything that had to do with him. Like when he staged Theon's escape at the start only to hunt him again so Theon would break and never try to to escape again. His whole arc played like that with the viewer imo.

urbaNRoots wrote:You can nitpick any season of any show if you really want to. Like the showrunners in the beloved season 2 killing Renly by some BS ghost magic which is never used again and making all of his bannermen join Stannis just so Tyrion gets a triumphic win at the end of the season. But that would be a disservice to what actually happened.

These are really minor things which shouldn‘t affect the bigger picture. Most people agree that Ramsay was an incredible villain, which is what made Battle of the Bastards so satisfying, because if he was vanilla no one would care even if you splatter 500,000,000 on an episode.

M99 wrote:

rincon wrote:

M99 wrote:S6 had good moments but pretty bad writing. They were bending over backwards to make Ramsey invincible before Jon and Sansa heroically defeated him. Also completely shat over The North Remembers, seeing season 2 and 3 and hearing those words make me hurt.

Sapochnik's episodes were fantastic, Hold The Door was amazing as well but lets not forget Arya vs Waif.

The north remembers is plain BS, which is in line with the books. It'd be more unrealistic that it would always hold true. Classic GRRM.

"The north remembers" but let 90% of us betray the Starks. It is even more through in the books with more time to elaborate on each house. Like that insane chapter of Davos in White Harbor where all the Manderlys recite out of scumbagness or fear that Robb turned into a wolf and killed his own men during the red wedding. Or the Umbers with one going to each side (Lannister vs north). Or the Boltons actually carrying out the red wedding. Or the Karstarks peacing out after Rickard's death.

Ramsey, 20-good-men aside, was much better done in the shows than in the books imo. He was a bigger part in the shows and was unbelievably well played by the actor. That was a GOAT TV villain. Makes you forget about some POS like Joffrey who was still great in his time. The pay off with Battle of the Bastards is a top 3 episode for me. Not only is the battle incredible, that last scene of Jon destroying him in the courtyard is perfect.

Ummm, are you forgetting that Manderly was only putting on a show because his son was a hostage? Once his son was free he kills the three Freys and have them cooked in a pie, frees Davos, and orders him to rescue Rickon. He literally says this.

Spoiler:

That Umber uncle also sides with Boltons because of Greatjon being hostage. Not because paraphrasing "my father was a *bleep*, your father was a *bleep*, jon snow let wildlings through, heres rickon"

Karstarks have a valid reason, it makes sense in both shows and books they will side against the family that killed their lord. Boltons are opportunists who took over the Starks, the North Remembers mainly refers to the Red Wedding, why the hell would Boltons take revenge on themselves?

rincon wrote:

M99 wrote:

rincon wrote:


The north remembers is plain BS, which is in line with the books. It'd be more unrealistic that it would always hold true. Classic GRRM.

"The north remembers" but let 90% of us betray the Starks. It is even more through in the books with more time to elaborate on each house. Like that insane chapter of Davos in White Harbor where all the Manderlys recite out of scumbagness or fear that Robb turned into a wolf and killed his own men during the red wedding. Or the Umbers with one going to each side (Lannister vs north). Or the Boltons actually carrying out the red wedding. Or the Karstarks peacing out after Rickard's death.

Ramsey, 20-good-men aside, was much better done in the shows than in the books imo. He was a bigger part in the shows and was unbelievably well played by the actor. That was a GOAT TV villain. Makes you forget about some POS like Joffrey who was still great in his time. The pay off with Battle of the Bastards is a top 3 episode for me. Not only is the battle incredible, that last scene of Jon destroying him in the courtyard is perfect.

Ummm, are you forgetting that Manderly was only putting on a show because his son was a hostage? Once his son was free he kills the three Freys and have them cooked in a pie, frees Davos, and orders him to rescue Rickon. He literally says this.

Spoiler:

That Umber uncle also sides with Boltons because of Greatjon being hostage. Not because paraphrasing "my father was a *bleep*, your father was a *bleep*, jon snow let wildlings through, heres rickon"

Karstarks have a valid reason, it makes sense in both shows and books they will side against the family that killed their lord. Boltons are opportunists who took over the Starks, the North Remembers mainly refers to the Red Wedding, why the hell would Boltons take revenge on themselves?

I didn't forget, I just finished DWD last week. That was Wyman Manderly. Most of White Harbor was ready to kill Davos and carry on with their lives under the Lannisters if it weren't for him. The North Remembers is only "some of the North Remembers".

Hother Umber sides with Bolton. That he does it for the Greatjon doesn't mean so much in practical terms. In the end he had the choice to make, "Remember" as northman, like his brother Mors, or join Lannisters/Boltons/Frey. Hother takes half of the Umbers to support Bolton and co. This difference is all that matters for the war for the North that Stannis, Jon and co. are trying to win. It's why Jon even suggest that Mors "as a true northman" is the best choice for Warden of the North in Winterfell if Stannis wins. Hother might end up succeeding in both freeing the Greatjon and also having Stannis win, but that's hell of a gamble to play when he is adding forces to the opposite army in a crucial time. He chose to put the life of his nephew above the lives of everyone else.

Arnolf Karstark straight up doesn't care about anything but plotting so that he becomes the leader of his house, pledged to the Lannisters. He plots so that his brother (captive of Lannisters, head of the Karstarks) is killed as a response of Arnolf pledging the Karstarks to Stannis. While meaning to double cross Stannis the moment this is done, and go back to the Boltons/Lannisters as the big boss.

Boltons: They are northmen as well, enough said.

The North Remembers is not about the Red Wedding. That is just one example. It's about their own concept of the north, remembering old traditions, being united, "Winter is Coming", and of course not forgiving crap like the Red Wedding. If this Northern conspiracy does come to fruition, which is a big IF, then it will end with half of the north victorious, and the other half dead or defeated as they sided with the Lannisters. Because only half "remembered". An outcome that in terms of narrative is going to be the same as in the show.

It makes sense, the north (or anywhere else in GOT) is not monolithic. The Northerners are not above all the betrayal and BS that goes on everywhere else.

And Lord Wyman is not the only man who lost kin at your Red Wedding, Frey. Do you imagine Whoresbane loves you any better? If you did not hold the Greatjon, he would pull out your entrails and make you eat them, as Lady Hornwood ate her fingers

Theon: The north remembers. The Red Wedding, Lady Hornwood's fingers, the sack of Winterfell, Deepwood Motte and Torrhen's Square, they remember all of it.

rincon wrote:Anyway, the point was the show didn't shit over "The North Remembers" any more than the books did so far. There is just less cast and less time to go over so many details on TV than on books, but the narrative is similar. Jon had some smaller northern houses going against the Boltons, Karstarks and Umber. Close enough.