Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

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Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by futbol_bill on Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:08 pm

I feel this season will not work out well! What are the suggestions that should be done to transition this team for the future?

It’s been a mistake to have so many young talents on team this season, but they are supposed to be the basis for the transition. Not all of them will work out, but you have to assume they will be still be here next year. That’s Theo, Vallejo, Ceballos, Llorente plus I would assume that Asensio, Isco, Kroos, Casemiro, Varane, Nacho will all be back. They all are relatively young.

Shown the door will likely be Bale and Benz, at least I hope so. Ronaldo may stay around another year, but he definitely needs to be replaced soon.

We are in need of a GK (Kepa, De Gea, Donnarama and Courtois have been mentioned) with likely both Navas and Casilla going within next 2 years.

We need a backup RB. Odiozola has been mentioned although it now seems unlikely, as a backup, given his progress with NT. Possibly Arcraf can be developed?

And we need a complete overall of front line!

So what’s the consensus of what club sshould do?
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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by titosantill on Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:43 pm

give me a minute
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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:50 pm

except for the frontline there is not much that needs change.

we need a new GK, a new n9, and a winger to replace bale. those are the key areas

positions like back up RB and back up CB are not things to lose sleep over.

Our midfield depth is fantastic. Kovacic and Ceballos are excellent talents and our staters are great too. Zidane does not like Llorente much but again, back up DM is nothing to be concerned with. there used to be a time we had no DM at all lol.

I give you an easy scenario

GK: De Gea,
RB: Meunier/Mario/Cedric/Mallo/Maffeo, anyone that wont cost 40 mil like Odriozola lol
CB: not needed unless u her rid of Nacho or Vallejo
CM/DM: not needed unless you sell someone
CF: Icardi, i would have said Kane but Icardi would be like 100 mil cheaper, and less of a headache to negotiate
SS/WF:Salah + another winger if you sell CR

say goodbye to Bale, but you keep Benzema, and start playing him off the bench only, until he decides to leave himself. If CR leaves as i said, you sign someone else.

no need to go crazy

oh and the coaching, if i had my way i would fire Zidane to hire someone like Lopetegui

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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by titosantill on Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:57 pm

the club knows what they need to do, and it still baffles me that nothing was done last summer. the squad is thin, mostly upfront, we have more than enough parts in midfield, just that some aren't been used. however, its not just about signing players. if the players we sign are top players who are set to walk into the team, it will affect the way we play. the players will affect that, not tactics

now, we've had some debates here, and i've always maintained that if zidane wants to get things done he must pressurize flo. now more than ever (if he doesn't get the boot), he needs to do that. will we be signing players to be 1 for 1 replacements? e.g. selling bale for a rw, to maintain a 4 3 3 that we've used for the most part in the last couple of years, or is this going to be a reshuffling of the formation altogether?

either way, he needs to let flo know who he wants and know how to use them. and NOT just be a company man and allow flo to just dump players on him and tell him to coach. he also needs to see that by now the modern cf creating space rhetoric isn't cutting it
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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by titosantill on Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:07 pm

when cristiano was scoring, that was enough camouflage for benzema supporters to say he does things that we don't appreciate, or that we don't see, like opening up space or whatever. if you need an advanced tactical eye to see what a footballer does (especially an attacker) then i'm of the opinion that such footballer isn't great.

now cristiano isn't scoring there's no hiding place for the modern cf, and whilst he may have flashes of brilliance here and there, the benzema of the 2011 season is long gone. zidane needs to recognize this, its just business, not about friends

same goes for bale, he will not all of a sudden become a player who will play 60 games (at least not at madrid) he's not getting any younger, i bet even he understands people wanting him out, we just have to smell the coffee. continued faith in them is just making us look foolish

and when the club signs new players there should be room for healthy competition. the idea of having mayorals as back ups is foolish and has never worked. it only worked with morata cos he had a drive to succeed and wanted to start. signing players who will be comfortable on the bench is the most foolish policy we've ever adopted....way more foolish than the "zidanes y pavons"
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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by futbol_bill on Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:08 pm

Nick, I agree with almost everything you said. re rest of team beyond forwards, we need to think of Modric and Ramos retiring when we talk about next generation. Too soon to know if Vallejo is the answer, I don’t see Nacho as a starter and we have to be aware of Varane’s injury prone possibilities, but we have time. Re Modric, I agree with you. And re Llorente, he has looked timid, gun shy so I don’t really fault Xidane (thus far). But again give him some time.

And re Zidane, it won’t surprise me if ge doesn’t last beyond a trophy less season.

Front line is in deed the issue and quite frankly, there doesn’t seem like an abundance of answers available.
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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by futbol_bill on Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:10 pm

Tito, i don’t think any of us, bar Sports, Turok and Guest would disagree with you.
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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:12 pm

@titosantill wrote:
now, we've had some debates here, and i've always maintained that if zidane wants to get things done he must pressurize flo. now more than ever (if he doesn't get the boot), he needs to do that.
and this is where you are wrong because what you see is what Zidane wants. he had morata last season, and morata had limited chances. yes they flopped with mbappe but the back up plan was mayoral?   Benzema is being treated like he is the greatest ever CF  in madrid history, etc... this is what Zidane wants, if he wanted something else he would have gotten it. but we are in a situation where the team is poor, he has no answer but to say things will get better at some point, the coaching is poor. i have been complaining about his coaching since he was at Castilla, but Ramos' headers overcame it, CR goals in CL, etc... the coaching is poor, new players that can bring more energy are the only option until he is sacked or quit.

CR goals are a camouflage to everything, not just benzema but the team tactics as a whole which was already poor last season. Now the goals are gone and the team looks like everyone is one off.

it's not possible to have a team with 10 players off form, it's just not. 2 or 3 guys? ok. but the whole 11? something deeper is not working.


Last edited by Mr Nick09 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by futbol_bill on Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:13 pm

Another player worth discussing is Asensio. Something is off with him in past 3 months. He needs to pick up his form if he is going to provide the alternative we want / expect.
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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:16 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:Another player worth discussing is Asensio. Something is off with him in past 3 months. He needs to pick up his form if he is going to provide the alternative we want / expect.
Asensio is a kid, with a terrific left foot but he is not there yet. HIs goals have also camouflaged the fact that he still has a lot to learn to be a productive and consistent professional. he just needs time and experience, he has everything else.

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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by titosantill on Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:28 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:
@titosantill wrote:
now, we've had some debates here, and i've always maintained that if zidane wants to get things done he must pressurize flo. now more than ever (if he doesn't get the boot), he needs to do that.
and this is where you are wrong because what you see is what Zidane wants. he had morata last season, and morata had limited chances. yes they flopped with mbappe but the back up plan was mayoral?   Benzema is being treated like he is the greatest ever CF  in madrid history, etc... this is what Zidane wants, if he wanted something else he would have gotten it. but we are in a situation where the team is poor, he has no answer but to say things will get better at some point, the coaching is poor. i have been complaining about his coaching since he was at Castilla, but Ramos' headers overcame it, CR goals in CL, etc... the coaching is poor, new players that can bring more energy are the only option until he is sacked or quit.

CR goals are a camouflage to everything, not just benzema but the team tactics as a whole which was already poor last season. Now the goals are gone and the team looks like everyone is one off.

it's not possible to have a team with 10 players off form, it's just not. 2 or 3 guys? ok. but the whole 11? something deeper is not working.


i don't doubt that, i think flo wouldn't mind doing away with benz, but zidane for whatever reason has been loyal to him to a fault. i do disagree about the whole team being off, this is how they've played, a bunch of sideways passes and stuff. even modric, he's been off form, but even at his best he's not a final third pass kind of guy. with bale injured (As usual), cristiano doing his modern cf impression and benzema exposed, we're all over the place

marcelo aka better than roberto carlos lmao, has always been like this- good on offense lackadaisical on defense. we just need fresh creativity up top and depth, real depth. not bench players who are not going to be trusted. its high time zidane does away with the benzema allegiance. he has given the guy more than enough chances, hell, one can even say they've done well in making lineker look brilliant as a pundit
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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:36 pm

the personal relationship benzema has with Zidane suggests otherwise. They have been close for years, and Zidane is protecting him now, trying to put him in the best situation to succeed.

I feel like you guys have short memories, we were playing the same way last fall. Nothing has changed except we are not longer scoring late in games. It was a problem last year given how often it happened. why is there no improvement in the way this team plays football? presses? control the ball? the use of half spaces in possession? playing through the middle?

To me there are no improvements on the pitch, and that is the main reason for the predicament we are now in. Even the squad management has gotten worse, where is the trust to the bench players? we can't win anything without James, Morata off the bench? i seriously dont know how this doesn't bother you.

anyway, this is going off topic, let's give fútbol bill some names he can impress his friends at the bar with.

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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:57 pm

this is my all french summer

GK: Luca Zidane
RB: Sidibe
CB: Upamecano
CM/DM: Ndombele
SS/WF: Fekir
CF: Griezmann

coach: Jean louis Gasset, to teach the team tiki taka like he did PSG

rofl

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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by futbol_bill on Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:47 pm

Are you trying to get in before Sports? :facepalm:

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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by halamadrid2 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:14 pm

Solution.....buy a striker

We haven't got any glaring weaknesses in the team barring the frontline

If ZZ wants to play a 433 then we need a pacy winger who can score *cough* Martial *cough* and a striker. If he wants to play 4321 then get a striker. GK and CB are just rich people's problems.
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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by Doc on Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:11 pm

Doc's solution:
Use the Clockwork Orange method of showing Zidane that Zidiamond is absolute shit and double full backs is stupid. And hope it actually works this time. Maybe invest in a new coaching schematic as whatever he is doing isn't exactly working these days. Nothing is wrong with change.

Player acquisitions:
Griezeman, Sanchez and Icardi as new forwards. The club would have a better chance of negotiating a soul out of Hell than getting Levy to sell Kane. If De Gea is too expensive, I guess Kepa but neither should be a priority. Unless you're Rwo, goalies aren't really that important to Madrid. Would even take Fekir because at this point, anyone is gonna improve our forward line.

Midfield is legit, agreed with Nick. However, if Zidane insists on the Zidiamond, get some proper wingers/inside forwards/anyone not named Benzema or Bale.

Defense, um, how about giving Theo a proper run out. That'll be nice.

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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:11 pm

i still dont know why that greasy frenchman is so liked, specially when he is only good when he plays behind the striker. he played winger for france in the world cup and looked worse than Shaqiri. one position type of player, no.

but his release clause is cheaper than it would take so sign players his equivalent from EPL or Serie A, aka Dymbala, Salah, Hazard (Sanchez going to city for sure)

hmm

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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by futbol_bill on Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:23 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:i still dont know why that greasy frenchman is so liked, specially when he is only good when he plays behind the striker. he played winger for france in the world cup and looked worse than Shaqiri. one position type of player, no.

but his release clause is cheaper than it would take so sign players his equivalent from EPL or Serie A, aka Dymbala, Salah, Hazard (Sanchez going to city for sure)

hmm


Wow Nick, that surprises me. i thought you were one of the greasy supporters. The Atleti fans are not happpy with him at all this season. And it sounds like club is a little pissed as well given the new contract. For once I would agree that Real could make a deal with Atleti on this given their disappointment. But I agree with you (this surprise post) that he isn’t a fit.

Re Doc and the DeGea or Kepa, we don’t necessarily need to change GK next season, but would almost certainly have to the year after. Interesting that likely is the same timetable re Modric and Ronaldo, although we do have a replacement (s) in place for Modric.
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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by guest7 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:36 pm

@Doc wrote:Doc's solution:
Use the Clockwork Orange method of showing Zidane that Zidiamond is absolute shit and double full backs is stupid. And hope it actually works this time. Maybe invest in a new coaching schematic as whatever he is doing isn't exactly working these days. Nothing is wrong with change.

Player acquisitions:
Griezeman, Sanchez and Icardi as new forwards. The club would have a better chance of negotiating a soul out of Hell than getting Levy to sell Kane. If De Gea is too expensive, I guess Kepa but neither should be a priority. Unless you're Rwo, goalies aren't really that important to Madrid. Would even take Fekir because at this point, anyone is gonna improve our forward line.

Midfield is legit, agreed with Nick. However, if Zidane insists on the Zidiamond, get some proper wingers/inside forwards/anyone not named Benzema or Bale.

Defense, um, how about giving Theo a proper run out. That'll be nice.


Zidiamond? What is that supposed to mean? Are people blaming these losses on the diamond formation??? we play even better footy with Zidiamond than 433

inb4 people say the diamond formation is outdated and act like we didn't win 4-1 vs Juventus with it lulz
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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:38 pm

no i think he is too one dimensional, which is one of the reasons he flopped all finals he played in so far. He played 2 CLs finals, 1 euro finals, and looked mediocre each time. i dont know why you want to sign a player like him, he can't even beat anyone in 1v1 ffs lol

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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:41 pm

@guest7 wrote:
Zidiamond? What is that supposed to mean? Are people blaming these losses on the diamond formation??? we play even better footy with Zidiamond than 433

inb4 people say the diamond formation is outdated and act like we didn't win 4-1 vs Juventus with it lulz
It's not outdated but it's broken if you will. It's been figured out by most teams we play against in la liga. Our CMs dont attack enough, our strikers dont create enough difference in 1v1, and we rely exclusively on our fullbacks to cross.

Again, coaching...

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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by guest7 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:59 pm

So we are going to totally act like we didn't play the best performance ever in a CL final vs Juventus?
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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:12 pm

who gives a shit about juve lol, we are talking about NOW. the 4312 was a nice solution last season, now it's not working.

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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by vanDEEZ on Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:31 am

I agree completely with Doc. As it stands right now this very second, we will need a winger, and a CF. Since we will likely have to wait until Summer, it’s incredibly difficult for me to comment on specific players- especially since this is a World Cup summer. So much can change. What won’t change is the need to replace Benz, Bale and probably Keylor. If other players leave we will obviously have to replace them too.

As for the Zidiamond I love the Clockwork Orange reference, Doc, I think we may need something that drastic, because how many times this season have we all (and the fan base across the world) come on a bitched about the 442 diamond? It worked great last season because teams weren’t used to it, we had many goal threats, and a functioning front line. When things start disfunctioning, you don’t double down on the same shitty formation, you try something new or try new players.

There’s a line about the definition of insanity- doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Well it doesn’t get much more insane than what we’ve seen this season.
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Re: Solutions to next generation Real Madrid

Post by terrance511 on Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:30 am

if possible, i hope we revamp the whole forward line in 1 shot.
really grateful for what ronaldo had done for us, but i feel that he need a fresh start, if so, prefer we parting in good term and memory.

this is *bleep* madrid, why are we acting like juventus transfer window. it's time for uncle flo to show zidane whos da boss.

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