The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

Putting Westbrook on the same level as Steph

Obviously this season
1. Harden
2. LeBron
3. AD
4. DeRozan
5. Giannis

El Gunner wrote:Putting Westbrook on the same level as Steph

Obviously this season
1. Harden
2. LeBron
3. AD
4. DeRozan
5. Giannis

Considering Curry played like 20 games it should speak for itself.

Freeza wrote:

Luca wrote:Is DeRozan in his own tier above LeBron?

I am perplexed

Raptors is the best united team in league. Would probably have Casey in 1a as coach and Brad Stevens as 1b. And the bench is the best in the league.

Raptors are too good and even of a team to have a most valueable one.

Yeah, I’m just teasing. DeMar was nowhere near the conversation last season with better numbers

I have to say though, even with lesser numbers I love this role for him. Best we’ve seen of him

Steph has missed loads of games, if he hadn't he'd have a big case for top 3 or at least approaching it.

Having him and Russ on equal footing is fine considering that.

Rumours around the league Lakers will seek trade for Kawhi and prefer that over Paul George.

I could Lakers giving up 2 1sts and Kuzma for Kawhi.

Freeza wrote:

FilthyLuca wrote:

Freeza wrote:


Westbrook has 2 of the 3 highest usage% rates of all time in a time where the game is played faster than it was in Jordan's era though.

Dude, I just saw this post...Seriously?  
Faster than ever before?  the 80s game was played at a much faster pace overall....modern nba is still catching up.  I think your confusing athleticism and pace of play.
Pace of play was higher, and Jordans usage was about the same as Russ, even at almost 40.  that ridiculous 41% season was last year when he was in full stat compiler mode.

Pace was higher now than the late 80s though. Early 80s, sure. 70s was even faster. Jordan was mainly late 80s and 90s.

Jordan’s teams during those seasons were in the low end. His huge season he had a 95 pace and Westbrook somewhere around 96

And yeah the league is much more athletic than before which also takes its toll on the effort.

There isn’t really anyone in the league outside Kathi with huge Usage who’s a go-to perimeter defender. It’s basically impossible anymore.

It was also hard back in the day, but Jordan was a genetic freak on all accounts. And a psycho.

He won MVP AND DPOY in a year that dwarfs todays pace, with a 38% rate....I just want westbrook to try. Just because scorings gone back up, doesn't mean the pace has caught up. that's a product of the emphasis on 3pt shooting.

Pace has clearly caught up lol, everyone's numbers are vastly inflated due to the amount of extra possessions that's happening every game.

When LeBron was in Miami literally nobody was putting up the numbers he was but now quite a lot of people are and there's only reason for that.

People used to talk about "video game numbers" and now those numbers happen almost every night.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Steph has missed loads of games, if he hadn't he'd have a big case for top 3 or at least approaching it.

Having him and Russ on equal footing is fine considering that.

You see I don't even have Steph in my top 5 because of the games missed.
So it's not so much about Steph as it is about Westbrook for me. What do you guys see in this guy except for his commitment and aggression as a good guard and his triple-double facade?

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Pace has clearly caught up lol, everyone's numbers are vastly inflated due to the amount of extra possessions that's happening every game.

When LeBron was in Miami literally nobody was putting up the numbers he was but now quite a lot of people are and there's only reason for that.

People used to talk about "video game numbers"  and now those numbers happen almost every night.

It hasn't clearly anything, you cant just claim pace has caught up and make it so.
The points are a product of everybody shooting more 3s. the stat lines are due to less specialization.  Like football, guys are expected to be more versatile nowadays and positions and roles are more blurred.

I agree. Why are we acting like a triple double is any good?

Leading the league in assist while carrying your underperforming teammates not good either.

Carmelo and Paul George were shooting like 10% from 3 without Westbrook playing. He’s so valuable to that team and the way they play. For better or worse he’s valuable. Think he’s been hindered by a lot of incompetent coaches through the years. They break down offensively all the time in the fourth.

And , Lebrons numbers aren't unprecedented...Someone may have come up some FWERV% metric that makes him look like god, but its not like he was Bolt or Phelps.

FilthyLuca wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Pace has clearly caught up lol, everyone's numbers are vastly inflated due to the amount of extra possessions that's happening every game.

When LeBron was in Miami literally nobody was putting up the numbers he was but now quite a lot of people are and there's only reason for that.

People used to talk about "video game numbers"  and now those numbers happen almost every night.

It hasn't clearly anything, you cant just claim pace has caught up and make it so.
The points are a product of everybody shooting more 3s. the stat lines are due to less specialization.  Like football, guys are expected to be more versatile nowadays and positions and roles are more blurred.

Pace in Westbrook’s season was 96 and Jordan played and 95 pace. How is that not caught up?

Pace this season was 97.3
The highest since 1990 when Jordan hit his prime.
The pace has caught up now to the 80s. It’s a fact really and it’ll only increase.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats.html

FilthyLuca wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Pace has clearly caught up lol, everyone's numbers are vastly inflated due to the amount of extra possessions that's happening every game.

When LeBron was in Miami literally nobody was putting up the numbers he was but now quite a lot of people are and there's only reason for that.

People used to talk about "video game numbers"  and now those numbers happen almost every night.

It hasn't clearly anything, you cant just claim pace has caught up and make it so.
The points are a product of everybody shooting more 3s. the stat lines are due to less specialization.  Like football, guys are expected to be more versatile nowadays and positions and roles are more blurred.

Wasn't just talking about points, also I clearly gave reasons why pace of play has gone up significantly over past few seasons.

Also I'm very well aware LeBron numbers weren't unprecedented.

Freeza wrote:I agree. Why are we acting like a triple double is any good?

Leading the league in assist while carrying your underperforming teammates not good either.

Carmelo and Paul George were shooting like 10% from 3 without Westbrook playing. He’s so valuable to that team and the way they play. For better or worse he’s valuable. Think he’s been hindered by a lot of incompetent coaches through the years. They break down offensively all the time in the fourth.

I watched a game last year against Phoenix, the last one they played them I believe. They were down, they needed scoring from a more than willing and capable scorer and he was desperately passing the ball around trying to get enough assists to complete his triple double.
That's all I have to know about Russell Westbrook.
Triple Doubles matter when they come as a result of you trying to WIN THE GAME. Not trying to make a pretty stat line because you've been little brother your whole career.
Kevin Love was a 30-20 machine in Minnesota and was the next Larry Bird. Stat compilers on shitty teams don't impress me. Let alone one who regardless of the lip service from his less talented teammates, or scary ass Kevin Durant, is a hot head and hard to deal with

Yeah I dunno where this idea the 90s was a ridiculously high pace, it wasn't at all.

80s is fair enough, that was a lot faster.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

FilthyLuca wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Pace has clearly caught up lol, everyone's numbers are vastly inflated due to the amount of extra possessions that's happening every game.

When LeBron was in Miami literally nobody was putting up the numbers he was but now quite a lot of people are and there's only reason for that.

People used to talk about "video game numbers"  and now those numbers happen almost every night.

It hasn't clearly anything, you cant just claim pace has caught up and make it so.
The points are a product of everybody shooting more 3s. the stat lines are due to less specialization.  Like football, guys are expected to be more versatile nowadays and positions and roles are more blurred.

Wasn't just talking about points, also I clearly gave reasons why pace of play has gone up significantly over past few seasons.

Also I'm very well aware LeBron numbers weren't unprecedented.

He’s just misunderstanding to be cross at this point. He hasn’t stated a single positive thing in this thread so far.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

FilthyLuca wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Pace has clearly caught up lol, everyone's numbers are vastly inflated due to the amount of extra possessions that's happening every game.

When LeBron was in Miami literally nobody was putting up the numbers he was but now quite a lot of people are and there's only reason for that.

People used to talk about "video game numbers"  and now those numbers happen almost every night.

It hasn't clearly anything, you cant just claim pace has caught up and make it so.
The points are a product of everybody shooting more 3s. the stat lines are due to less specialization.  Like football, guys are expected to be more versatile nowadays and positions and roles are more blurred.

Wasn't just talking about points, also I clearly gave reasons why pace of play has gone up significantly over past few seasons.

Also I'm very well aware LeBron numbers weren't unprecedented.

Again, you cant just claim something when there are numbers that literally track this very thing. Numbers that arent up for interpretation. Either there are more possesions or there arent. And No, the possesions have not gone up, not matter how you write it.

Freeza wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

FilthyLuca wrote:

It hasn't clearly anything, you cant just claim pace has caught up and make it so.
The points are a product of everybody shooting more 3s. the stat lines are due to less specialization.  Like football, guys are expected to be more versatile nowadays and positions and roles are more blurred.

Wasn't just talking about points, also I clearly gave reasons why pace of play has gone up significantly over past few seasons.

Also I'm very well aware LeBron numbers weren't unprecedented.

He’s just misunderstanding to be cross at this point. He hasn’t stated a single positive thing in this thread so far.

Didn't know sports was group therapy....I Love how Russell's dance moves.

The Pace when LeBron was in Miami was 91-93 and now it’s 97. How has the pace not gone up. It’s increasing every season ffs

FilthyLuca wrote:

Freeza wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:


Wasn't just talking about points, also I clearly gave reasons why pace of play has gone up significantly over past few seasons.

Also I'm very well aware LeBron numbers weren't unprecedented.

He’s just misunderstanding to be cross at this point. He hasn’t stated a single positive thing in this thread so far.

Didn't know sports was group therapy....I Love how Russell's dance moves.

God, you’re a dick

Those gaudy stat lines have been around forever....Don't know why I'm being made to look like a contrarian because one guy thinks its not russells fault hes lazy on D, and the other has arbitrarily determined possesions are higher now than when Jordan won BOTH MVP AND DPOY, just because he says so.

FilthyLuca wrote:Those gaudy stat lines have been around forever....Don't know why I'm being made to look like a contrarian because one guy thinks its not russells fault hes lazy on D, and the other has arbitrarily determined possesions are higher now than when Jordan won BOTH MVP AND DPOY, just because he says so.

I never said it was not his fault... Can you seriously not understand anything? I said hating on someone because they're not Jordan level competitive is ridiculous, because he a psychotic player who'd continually go all out a lot of the times.

I'm just saying not every player can sustain an All-NBA level on offense while being an incredible defender. Pippen was a better defender than Jordan and he took the hardest assignment in important match-ups, because Jordan was better on offense.

Also here are the stats for usage and pace in the seasons we're talking about.

2016-2017 OKC Russell Westbrook
Pace: 97.8
Usage%: 41.8 (highest all time)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/2017.html

1987-1988 CHI Michael Jordan
Pace: 95.5 (Slowest pace in the entire league)
Usage%: 35.2

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1988.html


Here are the numbers and facts about pace and usage in those seasons. So stop saying I'm lying when the facts are there. Russ played at a higher pace with higher usage.

This doesn't excuse him from not working hard on defense. But it can be understood why he isn't going hard all the time on the defensive end with such a huge workload.

Freeza wrote:

FilthyLuca wrote:Those gaudy stat lines have been around forever....Don't know why I'm being made to look like a contrarian because one guy thinks its not russells fault hes lazy on D, and the other has arbitrarily determined possesions are higher now than when Jordan won BOTH MVP AND DPOY, just because he says so.

I never said it was not his fault... Can you seriously not understand anything? I said hating on someone because they're not Jordan level competitive is ridiculous, because he a psychotic player who'd continually go all out a lot of the times.

I'm just saying not every player can sustain an All-NBA level on offense while being an incredible defender. Pippen was a better defender than Jordan and he took the hardest assignment in important match-ups, because Jordan was better on offense.

And Russell is one of the few human beings whose ass good a player and athlete as Jorda (he may be an even better athlete than Michael).
I'm not saying hes trash because hes not Jordan, I'm saying the greatest offensive player, a wing at that, had enough energy to average 30+ points and play elite defense, his whole career. In his first 4 or 5 years, when pace WAS higher, and in at 38 years old.
And stop keeping that myth alive, JORDAN covered the best defender the vast majority of the time, especially in playoff series, and mid 90s it was him and Harper.

Freeza wrote:Also here are the stats for usage and pace in the seasons we're talking about.

2016-2017 OKC Russell Westbrook
Pace: 97.8
Usage%: 41.8 (highest all time)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/2017.html

1987-1988 CHI Michael Jordan
Pace: 95.5 (Slowest pace in the entire league)
Usage%: 35.2

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1988.html


Here are the numbers and facts about pace and usage in those seasons. So stop saying I'm lying when the facts are there. Russ played at a higher pace with higher usage.

This doesn't excuse him from not working hard on defense. But it can be understood why he isn't going hard all the time on the defensive end with such a huge workload.

All I'm saying. Lazy as *bleep*....Ill take my crow on the possessions, as league may have been higher, but HE played at a slower pace

I still think it comes down to coaching at the end. No player should ever have 40% usage. You can’t win with cats like that.