Real Madrid x Chivas: round 2

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Post by Zees on Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:24 am

player ratings some1?

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Post by Guest on Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:28 am

@Turok_TTZ wrote:Sportsczy, wut happened this match? due to circumstances that screwed me over, i wasnt able to see the match.

How was the benz? has he scored or its still preseason and he just made an assist to compensate for not scoring?
Who was MotM? I wud like a summary if u've the time.

Here are the notes.

First half:
- Varane bossed. Won all his duels. Cool as a cucumber. Very impressive. Almost scored on a set piece too.
- Carvalho was solid as usual. He was short once, but Varane covered showing great speed and reaction.
- Arbeloa was his usual steady self. No errors on defense. Nothing much on offense.
- Marcelo was lazy and barely overlapped.
- Midfield of Kaka/Granero/Coentrao just didn't work at all. Ozil was in there too and has problems working together with Kaka.
- Benz had one tough angle shot and CR7 a one-on-one. That was the extent of the chances.
- Midfield was crowded and it was a tough half without rhythm

Second half:
- Kaka is taken off the pitch and Ozil starts to boss. Great pass after great pass.
- Marcelo makes more runs, which creates space on the left.
- Benz gets three chances, one of which he should have buried. His control was just a tad off, which caused him to miss the one-on-one. It was on target though and slipped beneath the keeper. Keeper's trailing hand stopped it.
- CR7 wore down the defense and scored on a cross by Benz. Showed great power and competitiveness.
- After going down 1-0, defense for Chivas gave up a bit and it ended at 3-0

Not the best of games, not the worst. We had very little midfield presence. We need two of Alonso/Sahin/Khedira in there. We get bogged down too easily.

Defensively, we're going to be fantastic down the middle.

Offensively, we're going to be fantastic as well.

Only question is the midfield.

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Post by Guest on Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:31 am

@Turok_TTZ wrote:
@Seppuku wrote:Coentrao in mid is a waste of talent.

Varane was exceptional but the defense in the first half was shaky (Carvalho?)

Ozil to me was the outstanding player.

Benz was wasteful in front goal and had an overall poor game.

.... against pathetic chivas of all teams?
*RAGE*

No need to worry. His work rate was there and he was getting open. He's finding his rhythm. Remember what Wenger said in Dec/Jan last year: Players like Benzema need a month and a half to get right. By the time the Spanish supercup comes around, he will be in top form. I putting a wager on that.

He doesn't look lost out there at all, which was the huge concern last year early.

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Post by Seppuku on Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:32 am

Coentrao is still a bloody mystery.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:34 am

adan-6, nothing to do
marcelo: 5.5, lazy and bad choices when attacking
carvalho: 5.5, did ok, some untimely challenges that left the back exposed
varane: 8, completely dominated
arbeloa: 7, good runs forwards, present at the back, good show.
coentrao: 6.5, very activate as always, allowed some good transition in the middle
granero: 6, nothing impressive, but couldnt really control the game
kaka: 5.5, almost invisible
ozil: 7.5, difficult start, but too intelligent to have bad games, great assist at the end.
ronaldo: 9, hattrick, nuffsaid, great game all around
benzema: 7, decent showing, some nice runs, poor touches here and there, couldnt score but good assist
pepe: 7, bossed the defense when he came on
albiol: 6, he was good, good passes forward
callejon: 6.5, brought speed and good movements between the lines
nacho:6, solid in defense

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Post by alex mahone on Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:42 am

I missed our friendly game again, my alarm failed to wake me Sad , downloading the game right now
Ronaldo hattrick? cheers
So Kaka and Ozil played together and it didn't work?
They've been played together before and worked just fine, ex: match againts Sevilla
I'm sure the problem was not because they have problem working together, anyway will post what I think about it after watch the game later
Why Xabi hasn't played at all btw? Is he injured?

edit:
Xabi Alonso missed the match against Chivas Guadalajara due to back pain experienced before the game started Sad


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Post by vanDEEZ on Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:01 am

extremely sloppy when compared to the l.a. match. but then again we were given much less room to operate. was a very chippy match imo.

varane played great in the first half.
ozil in the middle was 20x more efficient than kaka who was a waste.
benzema was a bit wasteful but good assist.
coentrao in the middle doesnt work for me, he keeps drifting to the left, seemed like we almost played with 2 LBs it has to be either one, or one of them needs to play RB.
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Post by Turok_TTZ on Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:27 am

@sportsczy wrote:
@Turok_TTZ wrote:
@Seppuku wrote:Coentrao in mid is a waste of talent.

Varane was exceptional but the defense in the first half was shaky (Carvalho?)

Ozil to me was the outstanding player.

Benz was wasteful in front goal and had an overall poor game.

.... against pathetic chivas of all teams?
*RAGE*

No need to worry. His work rate was there and he was getting open. He's finding his rhythm. Remember what Wenger said in Dec/Jan last year: Players like Benzema need a month and a half to get right. By the time the Spanish supercup comes around, he will be in top form. I putting a wager on that.

He doesn't look lost out there at all, which was the huge concern last year early.

read both ur posts. thank u for taking ur time to answer my concerns...
Positive thing about the great benzema is he cant have a bad game. if he cant score, he will make an assist.

Also, Benz performance = Midfield performance. If benz has the right support, he will never struggle. seeing as neither sahin or alonso were there to help him and the teammates that support him, it is only natural benz will also struggle.

since i have espn3 ill watch the match later. so kaka ozil didnt work huh. not surprised at all. kaka has to be the lone playmaker or else he will suck hard. no nick it isnt whether benz is there or not, he cant play with ozil, he needs to be alone dictating. look wut happened with kaka x ronaldinho at ac milan, didnt work at all. that alone lets me know that kaka and ozil wont work.

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Post by huntsman on Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:42 am

deezydeez wrote:ozil in the middle was 20x more efficient than kaka who was a waste.

Both played bad in the first half, but not worse than any other Madrid Player. One thing we have learnt from this match is we shouldnt play Kaka and Ozil at the same time. There should be only one Maestro in the team. Ozil might still be enjoying the success of the closing matches of last season, and riding an upbeat assist trend, but he's a terrible shooter and scorer and he tires quickly.
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Post by paperbackwriter on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:10 am

Some of you lot have the attention span of a goldfish, so Kaká and Özil had a bad game together while on the pitch at the same time and now they should never be played together? Sorry, but that's just retarded... Remember this game..?



It's still my firm belief that a combo of Özil and Kaká with Ronaldo on the left (Özil going wide right since he already create 90 % of his great moments when coming from the right) have a far superior potential than Ronaldo, Özil and Di Maria. If we want to play more possession based football that is. We can't afford Di Marias wastefulness in that case. Özil and Kaká have far superior football brains than Di Maria and rarely waste possession.
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Post by huntsman on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:15 am

And some people can't see behind their noses.

The problem with Kaka is he's too good for his own good. He'd probably take a bullet for Ozil and nurture him like a young brother while the latter savages and feeds on his flesh to secure a starting position. That's why i wouldnt want to play both of them together along with other reasons which the majority knows about. It's for Kaka's own good and hence Real Madrid's good.
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Post by alex mahone on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:54 am

Just finished watching the first half, more like Kaka just had one particularly bad game rather than Kaka + Ozil didn't work

For some reason Kaka just didn't involve a lot, but I don't think it was because there was Ozil on the pitch together with him. They've been played together before and worked most of the time. It's not like there was no link up at all between them in the first half, like when Kaka made a run into the box and Ozil sent him a through ball from the right and when Kaka made a cross into the box after Ozil passed to him when getting a free kick.

But as an offensive player Kaka in this game just didn't involve that much in attack. Ronaldo, Benzema, Arbeola, Marcelo, Ozil, & Coentrao all attacking wise way more involved than Kaka in the first half. A link up Ronaldo => Ozil => Benzema => Ozil resulted first attempt that got blocked. Then a really nice ball from Arbeola to Benzema got blocked as well. Also a quite nice a counter attack from Marcelo => Ronaldo (tried to set up Benz) => intercepted by the keeper. A link up Ronaldo => Coentrao => Ronaldo that got blocked also nice. There was also another one after Kaka's cross was blocked by the defender, Ozil recovered the ball & sent through ball to Ronaldo who made an attempt off target. A couple of misspasses & how easily we got dispossed were pretty disturbing though.

Carvalho still looked convincing in defense. Varane looked solid, had a chance to score after Granero free kick, looked pretty good in air. Adan has his moment as well, he made a save after a cross from the right iirc.
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Post by Turok_TTZ on Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:42 am

@paperbackwriter wrote:Some of you lot have the attention span of a goldfish, so Kaká and Özil had a bad game together while on the pitch at the same time and now they should never be played together? Sorry, but that's just retarded... Remember this game..?



It's still my firm belief that a combo of Özil and Kaká with Ronaldo on the left (Özil going wide right since he already create 90 % of his great moments when coming from the right) have a far superior potential than Ronaldo, Özil and Di Maria. If we want to play more possession based football that is. We can't afford Di Marias wastefulness in that case. Özil and Kaká have far superior football brains than Di Maria and rarely waste possession.

One game. there is potential but that potential is too small to be considered worth the risk.
once again: kaka and ronaldinho @ milan some years ago. didnt work there before and may not work now with ozil.

ofc this is still preseason and all, but im not sold on kaka.

anywho no alonso/sahin, no party. period. point is moot.

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Post by Guest on Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:42 am

I also think that Mou is really pushing them hard in practices. He wants to have all his players get their legs back quickly. For uber-athletes like CR7 and Ceontrao, or youngsters like Varane, it's no problem. For everyone else, you see some heavy legs, soreness (back, legs, etc.) and other things.

As the players get used to this pace, the game performances should improve. But for now, you can see the signs of weariness.

Btw, it's a crazy schedule to travel to the US and then to China before coming back to Madrid. The travel and the PR required with these trips are not easy. Once we get back to Madrid and settle into a normal routine, things should improve too.

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Post by guest7 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:46 am

Benzema had a really, really poor game. Very disappointing.

I also tought Coentrao went to the left too much. It felt like we attacked wide all the time.
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Post by alex mahone on Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:37 pm

Finished the second half, we played much better in this half, creating more chances as well.

Ronaldo definitely stole the show by his hattrick, and aside from that also made a good cross to Benzema who shot over the top.

Callejon played impressive, his pass to Benzema ended up as our first goal, made good runs as well, and made a great pass to Ronaldo after receiving Marcelo's pass, so unlucky not to get an assist from that, he also give a nice pass to Pepe who made a run into the box that lead to the penalty.

Benzema, wasted good chances, aside from the cross to assist Ronaldo's goal I think he played better in the first half.

Glad Ozil stopped making the shots he tried to make in first half & sticked to spread his awesome passes which became key passes in most of our chances. The pass to Coentrao & Callejon, the pass to Ronaldo before he crossed to Benzema who shot over the top, the passes to Benzema whose shots blocked by the keeper, and off course his assist to Ronaldo after receiving the pass from Coentrao.

Pepe was really amazing in spreding the ball from back there, mostly through Granero & Callejon. A lot of our chances were originated from the balls from Pepe.

Coentrao worked really hard, made himself available in the build up, making those runs, still not convinced enough about him in midfield though, he acted like a winger too frequently.


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Post by guest7 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:48 pm

Benz was good in the first half, I mean most of his chances were ruined becouse of 3vs1, he was always outnumbered in the attack, but the 2nd half was poor. Just poor, no excuses.
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Post by Guest on Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:55 pm

omarish wrote:Benz was good in the first half, I mean most of his chances were ruined becouse of 3vs1, he was always outnumbered in the attack, but the 2nd half was poor. Just poor, no excuses.

I actually saw it the other way around lol. I thought the first half was meh just because the team was meh. Not much the forwards could do when they had to come up so high to help the midfield. Very few chances and, other than the CR7 one-on-one, from poor angles.

In the second half, it opened up. For Benz specifically, he was making all the runs, passing decently and getting open. He was just rusty on his first touch and shots. The one-on-one was the bad miss... but that's because he missed his first touch slightly (very unusual for him). The others were from tough angles.

He got the first assist and had opportunities. For his second game in two months, not too bad. Activity was fine. Runs were fine. Just needs to find that rhythm and edge that only comes with playing.

Mid-August he'll be off and running if not sooner.

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Post by Ganso on Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:32 pm

it looked like kaka was playing as a cm Suspect

kaka and ozil indeed shouldn't be played together.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:33 pm

they can play together dude, it has worked before, and more than once. A lot of fine tuning need to take place tho.

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Post by Turok_TTZ on Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:59 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:they can play together dude, it has worked before, and more than once. A lot of fine tuning need to take place tho.

not convinced atm. watching the match right now via espn3. my god i really hope its just preseason blues...
benzema not getting any decent chances so far... just started on 2nd half is where i am at.

on a side note guadalajara has improved quite a bit since i last saw them. the difference between la galaxy and guadalajara isnt funny. despite guadalajara beign a shitty club, they still a mexican club.

mexican>american football/futbol anytime anywhere.

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Post by Zees on Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:03 pm

Allbiol is terrible

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Post by Doc on Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:30 pm

Albiolol

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Post by Ganso on Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:38 pm

SA football>Mexican football>MLS
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Post by skali on Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:42 pm

On the Kaka subject: his previous club Milan is famous for remodelling AMCs as MCs as they grow older, and I see no reason why Kaka couldnt succeed in a more withdrawn role.

Players who rely on speed but have great passing vision can still excel in a withdrawn role when they lose their speed. Giggs is the most recent example of that. It makes sense to have a younger, more energic player up front, and a slower passer of the ball behind him.

The only real problem is Kaka not doing any defensive work, but it would still be ok for most of our games. Mourinho would be the first to point out that you dont need to enforce the same style for the full 90 minutes. In the Barca game which had Pepe famously dismissed our game plan was clearly to tire them out by fielding a purely defensive, intense unit with Pepe and Lass dogging them in midfield, and then introduce a fresh offensive lineup to try and deliver the knockout blow.

I think thats mostly how Kaka will be utilized, to change the team mentality and increase the offensive intensity.
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Post by Guest on Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:44 pm

@skali wrote:On the Kaka subject: his previous club Milan is famous for remodelling AMCs as MCs as they grow older, and I see no reason why Kaka couldnt succeed in a more withdrawn role.

Players who rely on speed but have great passing vision can still excel in a withdrawn role when they lose their speed. Giggs is the most recent example of that. It makes sense to have a younger, more energic player up front, and a slower passer of the ball behind him.

The only real problem is Kaka not doing any defensive work, but it would still be ok for most of our games. Mourinho would be the first to point out that you dont need to enforce the same style for the full 90 minutes. In the Barca game which had Pepe famously dismissed our game plan was clearly to tire them out by fielding a purely defensive, intense unit with Pepe and Lass dogging them in midfield, and then introduce a fresh offensive lineup to try and deliver the knockout blow.

I think thats mostly how Kaka will be utilized, to change the team mentality and increase the offensive intensity.

The thing with Mou is that everyone needs to defend. He's asked it of CR7 and Benzema, who are the most attacking players. He is obviously going to require it of the AM. No reason Kaka can't do it... he just needs to adjust himself.

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