Niko Kovac Sack Watch

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Re: Niko Kovac Sack Watch

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:04 pm

Also, I'm not going to qualify arguments relying on "didn't BILD report?"

The latest BILd stuff was just baseless shit stirring like any tabloid does

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Re: Niko Kovac Sack Watch

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:05 pm

You're making very good points, Cas. I can't really give my take on Kovac because I haven't watched Bayern play at all this season and I have no idea whether he's partly or entirely to blame for their struggles.

However, I'll just say one thing in his defense:  I have always thought that it's kind of hypocritical from clubs not to strengthen their ageing squads and then have the nerve to blame their managers for not delivering.

This doesn't mean that the manager can't be blamed for getting bad results by the way. If they are making one tactical blunder after another then they should definitely share a sizable portion of the blame with the club. But even then, the club should be held responsible for not rebuilding the squad and for being arrogant and naive enough to think that their declining players/unproven kids will magically turn to beasts overnight.

This is something that both Madrid and Bayern have been guilty of, and frankly, they deserve everything that's coming to them.

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Re: Niko Kovac Sack Watch

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:08 pm

@The Demon of Carthage wrote:You're making very good points, Cas. I can't really give my take on Kovac because I haven't watched Bayern play at all this season and I have no idea

Should have put the second sentence first and then stopped after it

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Re: Niko Kovac Sack Watch

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:15 pm

Why?

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Re: Niko Kovac Sack Watch

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:19 pm

Because as you concede, you can't know whether Cas makes good points. He actually doesn't.
Apart from the squad building part which everyone knows.

As for the thing about blaming the manager, it's too early to blame Kovac and I will continue to write about this not in this thread, but here
http://www.goallegacy.net/t41609p25-bayern-munchen-under-niko-kovac

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Re: Niko Kovac Sack Watch

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:22 pm

Except my criticism was about Bayern's reluctance to rebuild their squad and not Kovac. I actually came to his defense in my post because I think he doesn't have the necessary tools to succeed.

You would've known that had you read my post to its entirety Smile

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Re: Niko Kovac Sack Watch

Post by Firenze on Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:59 pm

I'd be disgusted if Bayern didn't give the man some damn time. Only just got here, inherited an aging squad with no real superstars or injection of new talent over the summer. Give him a season and a summer transfer window ffs.
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Re: Niko Kovac Sack Watch

Post by Ion Creanga on Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Neuer, Lewandowski, James are no superstars? hmm
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Re: Niko Kovac Sack Watch

Post by Casciavit on Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Hans gets very aggressive when you show another line of thinking that he either doesn't see or doesn't agree with. I watch a lot of football and I have my theories. One of them is that when underdog coaches join big clubs they might run into trouble due to a difference in mentality. End of the day, I'm just theorizing. If I'm wrong, okay I'm wrong, it's not a big deal. If one of my points are off, and someone corrects me that's fine. If someone knows more about me on a certain topic and they can correct my original assumptions, by all means, go ahead. What's the point of posting on a footballing forum if you can't give potential reasons as to why things are the way they are.

However, the problem is when he contradicts himself.

He says Kovac isn't a hardman at all. Exhibit A:

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
Kovac is not an especially 'proven' coach, has never coached a top team in UEFA competitions, is still young himself.
The early signs are great though. Not only is he a no nonsense guy that is reportedly training very hard, he's also, it seems, decided to keep up a continuity of philosophy, if you will, with Jupp and Pep, opting for high pressing and a dominant approach.

Mate his entire gimmick is that he's a hardman. He once said if players have heart they don't need tactics. His Eintract were praised for fighting for every ball and running. Laughing

This is what Viva said about Kovac, a regular Eintracht watcher:

@VivaStPauli wrote:I should add, though, that of the three, Kovac is probably from what we've seen the worst fit for Bayern. Achieving success with a very reactive play style, concentrating on disruption and well-timed counters from a precisely drilled team is very impressive, but we really cannot yet say how any of that will translate to a first rate team littered with star players.

That's defensive football. Then again, I don't blame Kovac he overachieved with that team and it was clearly the right way to go. However, he was hardly progressive with Croatia either.

Even when he first joined in his press conferences, he kept talking about direct and physical football and how he thought possession football was outdated.

You honestly must be lying to yourself if you think someone with that kind of mentality isn't going to play more cautious against big teams than the likes of Pep and Jupp (second stint) did.

Also, you talk about Hoeness hiring Kovac, but when you think of the potential reasons why Hoeness might have wanted to hire him do you honestly think that the following didn't come to his mind?
- Bayern DNA
- More intense physical football

Weren't Bayern players complaining about the lack of intensity under Carlo, I'm sure he might have thought that Kovac would increase the intensity, no?

Also obviously Kovac can't play defensive football with Bayern because Bayern plays in a one-team league. As I said when you hire a reactive coach like him and ask him to play proactive it looks like an awkward fit because there are doubts over whether he can actually coach the team to properly play as the protagonist.

You literally just said it yourself below.

@Hapless_Hans wrote:Nah thanks I prefer Kovac no matter how often we lose

midfield of Thiago-Goretzka- James with Müller Robben Lewandowski in the mix too

We're at least playing attacking football even if we do it cluelessly

with Mourinho, Süle would play DM with Thiago and Kimmich wingers, and Javi Martinez as second striker. No thanks.

Ah, the classic case of a reactive coach trying to play attacking football. They compensate by fielding attacking lineups, but their actual attacking looks as you say, clueless. Also it's funny you mentioned Mourinho since he's an expert at doing that. He'll randomly field attacking lineups then get spanked and resort to being the negative POS he is.

However, I will say this Kovac definitely isn't a Mourinho lol. I've read his recent press conferences and he does want the team to have the ball. I'm just curious whether he'll continue to persist with these attacking lineups or if he'll cave in and go with what gave him success if results don't pick up.

Also I don't think he's a bad coach either nor do I think he's heavily at fault, let's just get that out of the way. The fault lies with the arrogance of the board in thinking that they could go another season without rebuilding. They should have phased out the older players with huge egos when they decided to hire Kovac.

Now he's stuck with old stars who undermine his authority. Also you can laugh at the BILD claims, but as the saying goes there isn't smoke without fire (if that's even the correct one). If you think players don't leak dressing room issues to the media then you're incredibly naive. Especially with a team like Bayern that is notorious for having their club drama all over the newspapers.

It's still too early to sack him and I think he should be given more time. He's talented and he can turn it around, but it's just that if he ends up losing the support of the dressing room, then it's game over.

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Re: Niko Kovac Sack Watch

Post by Casciavit on Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:20 pm

@The Demon of Carthage wrote:You're making very good points, Cas. I can't really give my take on Kovac because I haven't watched Bayern play at all this season and I have no idea whether he's partly or entirely to blame for their struggles.

However, I'll just say one thing in his defense:  I have always thought that it's kind of hypocritical from clubs not to strengthen their ageing squads and then have the nerve to blame their managers for not delivering.

This doesn't mean that the manager can't be blamed for getting bad results by the way. If they are making one tactical blunder after another then they should definitely share a sizable portion of the blame with the club. But even then, the club should be held responsible for not rebuilding the squad and for being arrogant and naive enough to think that their declining players/unproven kids will magically turn to beasts overnight.

This is something that both Madrid and Bayern have been guilty of, and frankly, they deserve everything that's coming to them.

Oh don't get me wrong man, I agree for sure. The majority of the blame lies with the board and I've mentioned that numerous times already.

It's just that if Bayern had no intention of rebuilding then the Kovac appointment was an awkward one. His prior success came from an entirely different context to the situation he's currently dealing with. I have my own assumptions as to why they hired him and I wrote it above, but I still think there could have been better candidates especially if they weren't going to rebuild.

The jury is still out and he'll be given more time to improve the situation. If he doesn't, he'll get sacked. That's just how the game goes. The board overlook their flaws and pin the blame on the coaches. It is what it is.

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Re: Niko Kovac Sack Watch

Post by Art Morte on Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:28 pm

Loving it how Bayernliga might actually get a new champion, finally. Showcasing why they're still better than Serie Zzz.

As for this particular manager, when you don't back him up with funds but rather rely on old warhorses, serves you right to lose 0-3 at home.
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Re: Niko Kovac Sack Watch

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:29 pm

Uli Hoeness Sack Watch would be the thread we need but that's not happening

The prick is rather going to sack Kovac without giving him any support whatsoever

It's clear that the mistakes were made in the negligence of squad building and Kovac is the poor sucker who gets the blame.

Not yet, though. Not yet.

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Re: Niko Kovac Sack Watch

Post by iftikhar on Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:02 am

Hmm, so Bayern winning the league in March rather than in December??? Sounds fun. :coffee:
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Re: Niko Kovac Sack Watch

Post by BarcaLearning on Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:44 am

Anyone wanna name their picks who will win it this time if Bayern really finally fails to do so?
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Re: Niko Kovac Sack Watch

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:24 am

Maybe Dortmund? But I'm really having a hard time imagining Bayern failing to win it. It's still early days, they'll eventually go back on track, even with grandpas Ribéry and Robben.

The other teams simply don't have depth to compete for 34 rounds.

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