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Post by Myesyats on Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:18 am

Tbh there is still hope Rakitic gets sold this summer. Busquets might be sidelined a little by De Jong, hopefully. Puig has been impressive so maybe finally he'll get some chances. We'll see what happens, theres still plenty of transfer window left.

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Post by Casciavit on Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:33 pm

What a performance Frenkie is having this second half omg

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Post by Myesyats on Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:37 pm

Vintage Barca tonight, probably because Rakitic and Busi are benched.

Frenkie is like a god among men. What a signing.
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Post by Myesyats on Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:51 pm

Only seen the second half but Alena has been decent too.

I hope our starting midfield will now be... DE JONG-ARTHUR-ALENA/PUIG

We need youth and dynamism.
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Post by Myesyats on Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:56 pm

Coutinho is hilariously bad. My local mailman has more skill and vision on the pitch. Worse transfer than Douglas
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Post by alexjanosik on Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:06 am

@Myesyats wrote:Vintage Barca tonight, probably because Rakitic and Busi are benched.

Frenkie is like a god among men. What a signing.


Undoubtedly. Busquets and Rakitic need to be benched. We played much better without them. FDJ is the signing of the summer by far. Will be the defining midfielder of the generation. Football was wonderful. I think that should more or less be our starting 11 this season.
Alas, Busquets and Rakitic were rested. Expect them to start against Bilbao. Expect Busquets to get owned while he tries his tried lame ass trick and expect us to play soul sucking football next weekend.

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Post by Myesyats on Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:14 am

Hmmm I don't think they were rested, Valverde said something yesterday to the extent of "possibly tomorrow's lineup will be the one that starts against Bilbao". Perhaps grandpa Ernesto has finally seen the light?

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Post by BarcaLearning on Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:39 am

I see the many support for our youth players like Alena and Puig, etc., but unfortunately, its proved time and again when it matters, these players just rarely are able to step up at the biggest and most crucial times, they are just not good enough overall to compete with the best opponents, so imho, they will just be used to rotation. I hope the applies to the likes of Roberto.

On that note I think Semedo is so much better as a defender so I hope he will be our first choice RB from now on.

Dembele has improved steadily and even helping out a lot defensively, although his passing and teamwork still needs a lot of work, so the hope is still on him to improve and fast, otherwise he will continue to be a hit or miss during games. But boy is he a joy to watch Very Happy

Grizemann has looked really well and am happy to see him settle quickly.

De Jong will be our mean starter and important player in midfield, so alongside I think the question is, will Valverde play the 4-3-3 with two midfielders either side of him, or if possible, just have one and actually player Grizemann, Messi, Suarez and Dembele Razz That would be awesome, which is definitely possible against the weaker teams I believe. If not, they will have to rotate, and then u gonna have hopefully Arthur the other starter with the others rotating.

Firpo our new LB looked poor in the first Napoli first match I watched, and the other youngsters in defense were nothing impressive so our defense will remian the same I guess - not very good.
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Post by BarcaLearning on Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:58 am

I think the season starts next week, whats everyone's thoughts on our starting line up now? Key will be if Valverde stats with 4-4-2 or go back to Barca's tradional 4-3-3, which is what fans prefers I would imagine. Here are mine:

Vs weaker opponents - the rough shape could look something like 4-2-3-1 depending with Messi for example lingers. Obviously this is a very ambitious attacking lineup and focused less on the defensive side, but I really think its ok since the 2 midfielders really hard work, and if the front 4 work hard as well it will be enough vs the weaker teams, and the offensive should more than offset the risk, and it would mean we get to enjoy amazing football Im sure watching this team play attacking football Very Happy The final shape could be slightly altered depending on the game, etc:

---------Ter Stegen
Semedo--Pique--Lenglet--Alba
------De Jong--Arthur
Dembele--Messi--Grizemann
-----------Suarez

Vs the better opponents:

---------Ter Stegen
Semedo--Pique--Lenglet--Alba
-Rakitic/Vidal--De Jong--Arthur
---Messi--Suarez--Grizemann

This setup above would give us obviously more in midfield, and resulting in much less threat on our right side attacking, but with Grizemann a major upgrade to the ineffective Coutinho last season, and not as pessimistic as the 4-4-2 with I really dont wanna see anymore given what we have now up front.

The only scenario I would accept to see 4-4-2 anyway is if we get overrun or to hold leads later in games, or if Dembele is injured which can happen anytime, which we all pray wont.

So whats your thoughts? What lineup would u like? Very Happy
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Post by Myesyats on Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:56 am

Griezmann is a very, very, very good player so I'm sure he'll find his place on the pitch even with Dembele playing

---------Ter Stegen------------
Semedo--Pique--Lenglet--Alba
------De Jong--Arthur---------
Messi---Griezmann---Dembele
-----------Suarez---------------

I think Antoine is very hard-working aswell so he could even play a kind of an AM role, he's not really a midfielder but in a way he's like Messi in that he can drop deep, receive the ball and distribute it well. He's not really a deadly striker like Suarez so he can stay further away from the goal too.

Right now Messi is injured so we'll have to wait a little more to see where all 4 of them fit.


Opening fixture lineup at Bilbao should look like this:

---------Ter Stegen------------
Semedo--Pique--Lenglet--Alba
----De Jong--Arthur--Alena----
Dembele---Suarez---Griezmann

Unfortunately Valverde doesnt have cojones so I expect one of Rakitic or Busquets to start, or god forbid both.

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Post by Winter is Coming on Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:59 pm

What garbage manager basically any superstar we sign turns to garbage under him.

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Post by Myesyats on Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:30 pm

I'm surprised he didnt get the sack towards the end of last season after another embarrasing CL exit, this is surely his last season at the club, hopefully doesnt get to see the end of it and is forced to resign mid season. When you takeaway Messi you can clearly see the man has no idea how to set up the team.

Also please swap Dembele for Neymar.....
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Post by alexjanosik on Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:00 am

I think we played well. Didnt deserve to lose. Deserved at least a draw. Really happy that he went with the midfield that he did. We struggled for the first 20 as Raul Garcia was man marking FDJ but FDJ is really hard to man mark for a full game. He started getting lose and we slowly exerted control. After that, it was all us. Alena played well and should have played the entire game. Rafinha came in for Suarez and had a very good game.

All in all, a tough away game to start off which we didnt deserve to lose. I am happy with most of our players except Griezman who was anonymous.

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Post by Myesyats on Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:51 am

Yeah we managed to keep possession but there's no purpose in most passes. The difference is staggering when you go watch a Man City game and then revert to Verdeball.

Griezmann was anonymous because he is badly instructed. Valverde just doesn't know how to manage. It was clear Griez tried to be active but the setup is all wrong.

Then individual players are scapegoated but we've all seen De Jong at Ajax and Griezmann at Atleti, they dont just turn to garbage overnight.

We have a great team but a little pressure and man marking and we look cluless. No game plan.
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Post by alexjanosik on Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:16 pm

I think it was a little more than possession. Biggest positive was Busquets not playing at all. Back to the football, we had a good intensity and pressing to our game. Bot quite gegen pressing but still very good intensity and hustle. The passing was really good and very fast and crisp. We had some good chances. Not as if there were none. And everyone shared the ball unlike Messi ball. I thought there were positives but I understand the concerns.

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Post by Myesyats on Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:17 pm

Suarez and Dembele injured

Griezmann-Messi-Rafinha against Betis next weekend?
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Post by windkick on Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:04 pm

The team is still in Liverpool/Valencia form.

How Valverde still has a job is beyond me.

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Post by futbol on Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:50 pm

He has a job because no one better is available. Who would that be? Setien? Barca gonna appoint a guy who got booed off by Betis fans last season? To achieve what?

If you think about it long and hard, other than Pep and Klopp who are not available, you can't come up with any elite name that would be a nailed on improvement right now (regardless that Pep is a proven CL failure and wouldn't improve our trophy haul anyway, only the style of play). There is ten Hag who could turn out to be a 1 season wonder and was never going to move in the same window in which Ajax lost De Ligt and De Jong. And then there is nothing promising. Let's disregard Allegri who is a good coach but a defensive one first and foremost, not too dissimilar to Valverde.

I actually like the idea of giving Valverde more time, knowing fully well that he isn't the best in the world or anything. Modern football with its Instagram generation fanbase that wants to get rid of 2 times league winning manager with 5 league losses in 2 years of which 3 came after league was won is the absolute wrong direction the sport is taking. We would be firing a manager literally for not winning the treble and not playing peak Barca football with jokesters like Dembélé, Semedo, Busquets, Roberto etc.

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Post by Myesyats on Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:14 pm

My issue is that the environment created by Valverde exploits everyones weaknesses while not bringing out the strenghts.

A big part of Klopps and Peps success is that they're passionate, very involved and invested in every single game.

Valverde it feels like he's working a 9-5 office job ffs. It was enough at Bilbao where it was fine to finish mid-table but when you aim to win every game, it can never work!!

You can't do the same thing every week and expect different results....

And FUTBOL, if you want to defend Valverde by providing results and how many games he lost as manager, remember that 95% of the credit goes to Messi!! This is no argument..... Its all Messi.
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Post by futbol on Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:30 pm

Messi did not join Barca 2 years ago though and 2 years ago we lost the league, lost Neymar, Madrid had won the League/CL double and we were supposed to be in deep shit. Then we went unbeaten 37 games and beat Madrid 5-1 without Messi head-to-head.

Our abysmal European away record is nothing new. Valverde just happens to get the first legs at home and the return legs away which makes it look worse than the other way around when we lose first 0-3 away and try to remontada it at home. As we did against Juventus with Lucho and failed (0-0 at home).

I bet if we first lost 0-4 to Liverpool and then won 3-0 in the return leg the narrative would be completely different ("close", "gave everything", "proud of the players"). But swap the away and home legs and it's a completely different narrative despite the exact same result.

We suck in European away games and the style of play isn't optimal. I can't blame this solely on Valverde when the former is chronic and the latter is a consequence of the natural decline of the squad. I just can't. Logic prohibits me from doing that. His Athletic Bilbao was more energetic and pressed more despite being much worse quality-wise. They pressed us of the park in Camp Nou and won 4-0 in a Super Cup game under him.

This does not mean Valverde is perfect or anything but he's also not garbage as made out. He's a solid 7/10 coach. I don't think anyone would do better tbh. Most that could be improved is style of play but do you believe even Klopp could have built a heaving pressing game with 32 year old Messi and Suarez upfront and weak, slow Busquets in the middle? It would take him years to phase all these players out and build something new. Took him 4 seasons at Liverpool to get to where he is now.

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Post by windkick on Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:18 pm

@futbol wrote:He has a job because no one better is available. Who would that be? Setien? Barca gonna appoint a guy who got booed off by Betis fans last season? To achieve what?

If you think about it long and hard, other than Pep and Klopp who are not available, you can't come up with any elite name that would be a nailed on improvement right now (regardless that Pep is a proven CL failure and wouldn't improve our trophy haul anyway, only the style of play). There is ten Hag who could turn out to be a 1 season wonder and was never going to move in the same window in which Ajax lost De Ligt and De Jong. And then there is nothing promising. Let's disregard Allegri who is a good coach but a defensive one first and foremost, not too dissimilar to Valverde.

I actually like the idea of giving Valverde more time, knowing fully well that he isn't the best in the world or anything. Modern football with its Instagram generation fanbase that wants to get rid of 2 times league winning manager with 5 league losses in 2 years of which 3 came after league was won is the absolute wrong direction the sport is taking. We would be firing a manager literally for not winning the treble and not playing peak Barca football with jokesters like Dembélé, Semedo, Busquets, Roberto etc.


That's the thing though, it's that type of thinking that is the issue with the board.

Yes, we have won a ton of games with EV. Yes, we have won a lot of titles with EV. Yes we clearly have some ageing players

He has now been at Barca 2+ years, and honestly what can you say about him that's positive about the way he plays? Can you say we have a definite playing style? When you see us play, do you say wow that's a team that's imposing itself on its opponent and has a clear way of thinking and approaching the game? No, not at all. We don't have an identity, and we won a ton of games last season on Messi's brilliance (whether you or anybody want to give him credit for it or not) and on Dembele's late winners. You can't say he has "inspired" our players to play more technical sound football as it's clear he likes players like Rafinha, Rakitic, Paulinho and Vidal...all players who excel on running around and basically trying to create a mess with energy. We got out played by Madrid the 4 times we played them last season and that's pretty bad considering how bad they were but we still won on some Malcom goal or what not, not on our coach dominating a team that was playing bad. We played bad at home vs Liverpool and again won on Messis magic and he basically rolled the dice it would unfold like that again in Anfield and it backfired. Did he show he can adjust then when he had a whole 90 mins to analyze how we played vs Liverpool to prepare us for the second game? No not at all. And that’s exactly what happened with Roma the previous year so that’s again him not learning from his mistakes 2 years in a row and it cost us a humiliation that will literally NEVER be forgotten for the rest of time. He then failed to motivate the team and inspire them for the Copa a week and a half later vs Valencia. The man, is not a defense first type manager like Mourinho but he is clearly not an exciting coach with a clear method of playing.

I don't know who would be better, but that's not my job. I don't have scouts out around the world to find better players or managers that would fit our team. But the club does have those resources that I don’t have. So to say NO ONE out there can step in and have Barca play better and that we should keep EV just because he can win from time to time is pretty ridiculous.
Our club isn’t Espanyol, we should care about how we play out there and how we are getting our wins. With EV we clearly don’t care. It’s that simple

I mean the club took a chance with coaches who were REALLY mediocre before and it worked; I am not picking Setien as a candidate but just using him as an example since you mentioned him as some ridiculous thought. We did hire Lucho after getting sacked and performing far worse with Roma than what Setien did with Betis. After Roma, Lucho did worse with Celta than what Setien also did with Betis. So to tell me we can't find some manager out there who can elevate and motivate just due to them playing with a lesser team previously is non sense. Look at how Ajax play, with a FAR lesser squad whether you want to put our players down or not, and we can SEE how they play. Look at players like FDJ and Arthur…who play far better with Ajax/Brazil than they do with us…what does that tell you? EV is the problem, as he is the common denominator


Last edited by windkick on Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Myesyats on Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:23 pm

Difference between a real passionate manager and a poser:

Match Day Thread 19/20 - Page 2 5ced54cb90f46

vs

Match Day Thread 19/20 - Page 2 3D83DA86-5F78-480C-AFF9-924924E6D6FD


EV in this picture is thinking: "Hmmmmm, this tactic didnt work last year against Roma so why is it not working again vs Liverpool?????"
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Post by Myesyats on Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:35 pm

http://www.barcaforum.com/showthread.php/17336-FC-Barcelona-tactics-under-Ernesto-Valverde-matches-analysis-with-pics?p=2098515#post2098515

i only visit barcaforum for rumors not opinions but this thread is pretty good and created by one of the few users who have a brain
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Post by futbol on Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:57 pm

@Myesyats wrote:http://www.barcaforum.com/showthread.php/17336-FC-Barcelona-tactics-under-Ernesto-Valverde-matches-analysis-with-pics?p=2098515#post2098515

i only visit barcaforum for rumors not opinions but this thread is pretty good and created by one of the few users who have a brain


Don't like these type of posts. You can take some still pictures out of a 5400 second football game and write a fairy tale about it if you have enough time to waste in your life, no probs. Doesn't really make the written stuff factually correct. I would bet any money that the same "faulty situations" occur in every game, I could make the same pictures from games of supposedly well drilled teams like City or Liverpool, no probs. This is football, no team is perfectly alligned at all times. Otherwise there would be no goals.

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Post by futbol on Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:04 pm

@Myesyats wrote:Difference between a real passionate manager and a poser:

Match Day Thread 19/20 - Page 2 5ced54cb90f46

vs

Match Day Thread 19/20 - Page 2 3D83DA86-5F78-480C-AFF9-924924E6D6FD


EV in this picture is thinking: "Hmmmmm, this tactic didnt work last year against Roma so why is it not working again vs Liverpool?????"


Passionate manager CL results:

Spurs 1 - City 0
City 1 - Liverpool 2
Liverpool 3 - City 0
Monaco 3 - City 1
Atletico 1 - Bayern 0
Barca 3 - Bayern 0
Bayern 0 - Real Madrid 4

7 consecutive seasons of failure. Just saying.

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Post by Myesyats on Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:15 pm

It doesnt make it factually incorrect either just because you "don't like it". Its not like he dissected our entire tactics but he noticed a very common theme in our game thats not entirely worthless because it's a pretty accurate observation.

After 2 years of the same bollocks week in-week out, it is very surprising to see you stand here and defend Valverde.

Most obvious example: Roma-Liverpool exits are like mirror reflections. This man is not learning, adjusting or elevating our game.

You can say "but he won La Liga losing only 3 games all season" and that's true, but is that really an achievement with a crippling Madrid and Atleti which barely ever poses a threat in the title race?

They should have lined up a replacement for him long ago. At least get someone who has life in him. I remember you ranting about his lack of motivation ages ago, dude
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