Real Madrid UCL Group Stage 2019

Mr Nick09 wrote:@thimmy, it's hard to disagree with your points. I think Pogba is clearly not the type of player that will consistently lead and be the best player of the team. I don't expect him to be that. The way I look at this situation is just from the point of view that as long as Zidane is at the club, we will go for Pogba and next summer with a year left on his deal it's as good a time as any to sign him. It's just likely, all things being the same as today that he ends up a Madrid player.

Well, that’s unavoidable I guess. I just like to think that Zidane has a more elaborate plan than «bring Pogba in, make him happy, he play like for France, we play like France». If we bring in no one but Pogba and he performs predictably poorly over the majority of the season, then I’ll just go on a hiatus from watching our matches until Zidane is sacked for incompetence.

Thimmy wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:@thimmy, it's hard to disagree with your points. I think Pogba is clearly not the type of player that will consistently lead and be the best player of the team. I don't expect him to be that. The way I look at this situation is just from the point of view that as long as Zidane is at the club, we will go for Pogba and next summer with a year left on his deal it's as good a time as any to sign him. It's just likely, all things being the same as today that he ends up a Madrid player.

Well, that’s unavoidable I guess. I just like to think that Zidane has a more elaborate plan than «bring Pogba in, make him happy, he play like for France, we play like France». If we bring in no one but Pogba and he performs predictably poorly over the majority of the season, then I’ll just go on a hiatus from watching our matches until Zidane is sacked for incompetence.

I think his plan is to build a team that focuses on transition football, this is the hint I gathered from listening to him in press conference and he probably sees Pogba as the best box to box player in the world, whether you agree with that or not.

So I don't think the plan is "bring Pogba" I would wager the plan is "build a midfield with box to box players" around which the principal cog will be Pogba. You are right in that Pogba being in Madrid may impact the chances Odegaard succeeding here.

@bill, sacking Zidane would be a big deal specially if he has the backing of the players and the results aren't so bad. It's likely that we end the season trophyless but it's easy for Madrid to spin it into, "we are building" and then sign a few big games again next summer to give Zidane another chance.

As I said there is such a thing as being bad but still good enough to win games, just see the game vs galasataray.

There is no such a thing as "answer" lol, for this team to go back to champions league contending level it's gotta be a combination of things: key players like hazard performing consistently, the personnel in midfield bring different and more consistent as far as playing time and injuries, luck lol, etc...

I think Zidane sees Pogba as a building stone, same as Mbappe although good luck getting him... He is looking for those few key players that can help launch the team in a new dynamic.

As for Odegaard no one knows with him he wants to be at la Real for another season. If he doesn't go next summer it's because whomever is the coach really loves him

Mr Nick09 wrote:

Thimmy wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:@thimmy, it's hard to disagree with your points. I think Pogba is clearly not the type of player that will consistently lead and be the best player of the team. I don't expect him to be that. The way I look at this situation is just from the point of view that as long as Zidane is at the club, we will go for Pogba and next summer with a year left on his deal it's as good a time as any to sign him. It's just likely, all things being the same as today that he ends up a Madrid player.

Well, that’s unavoidable I guess. I just like to think that Zidane has a more elaborate plan than «bring Pogba in, make him happy, he play like for France, we play like France». If we bring in no one but Pogba and he performs predictably poorly over the majority of the season, then I’ll just go on a hiatus from watching our matches until Zidane is sacked for incompetence.

I think his plan is to build a team that focuses on transition football, this is the hint I gathered from listening to him in press conference and he probably sees Pogba as the best box to box player in the world, whether you agree with that or not.

So I don't think the plan is "bring Pogba" I would wager the plan is "build a midfield with box to box players" around which the principal cog will be Pogba. You are right in that Pogba being in Madrid may impact the chances Odegaard succeeding here.

I didn’t mean that it would result in Ødegaard not succeeding. I’m not sure how you came to that conclusion.  I meant that I don’t see the two of them working together in midfield since they both want to go forward and attack. Ødegaard can defend, but I suppose he would have to become much more of a deeplying playmaker in order to compliment Pogba going forward. it could happen, but that seems really impractical and wasteful of his talent. We might as well find someone who’s more accustomed to that role instead, if we’re going to prioritize and rely on Pogba. Martin’s likely staying at Real Sociedad, anyway. It’s obviously an inferior team, but he’s in a good and stable environment, and that’s where a 20 year old should be.

I don’t disagree that Pogba is the best box to box midfielder based purely on what he’s capable of doing, but he seems to require a very specific environment and mental state in order to put his talent on display consistently enough to warrant even suggesting that, and even then, I’m very sceptical in regard to how useful he can be for us or anyone else over the course of a long league season. Despite the gap in talent, Man United’s midfield has not looked substantially inferior to ours since last season, and Pogba rarely looked like he was a step above his team mates outside of that isolated period of time when the entire team looked like they’d discovered a higher gear. We all know he has the most talent in that team, but he was by no means their most useful player. The much less talented, Ander Herrera was, and Man United have been suffering since the moment he stopped playing for them. When Pogba leaves them, I don’t think they’ll notice much of a difference in any given match. They’ll lose their most capable, but also least reliable player.

Over the past 3 seasons, Pogba’s had about 5-8 good to great performances per season. Coincidentally, that’s about the same amount of matches that re-ignited his hype during the last world cup. He usually performs really well against Arsenal. Other than that, his work rate and concentration level seem to be based on how he feels on any given day. The rest of his performances have ranged from decent to liability level awful. If we’re going to risk relying on such a fickle player to make our transitional game tick, then we better ensure that we first provide the environment that he’s been known to thrive in. Right now, we can’t offer that. We’ll need another CM who can and is willing to drop deep and allow for Pogba to do his thing. Kante would be ideal. If we can’t provide that, Then we just have to hope that the change in environment somehow makes him as consistent as he supposedly was at Juventus.. although, they had a far more functional midfield than we currently do. Sounds like a crapshoot to me, but it’s Zidane who’ll take the fall if it doesn’t work out.

If you can’t be bothered to read my wall of text, all I’m saying is that the plan of using Pogba as a B2B midfielder in a transitional setup sounds like a farfetched idea, unless that means bringing in the type of midfield partner that has been present every time Pogba has thrived on a relatively consistent basis. Kroos is not that type of midfielder, and neither is Ødegaard. Forget about Ødegaard, he’s likely staying put for now.

I said it may impact his chances, because Odegaard is an attacking midfielder, not a natural box to box. I am going with the assumption that Zidane would continue to rely on this 3 man midfield, so Casemiro would still very much be present.

Anyhow, i think my original argument was that a few key changes in midfield would give this team a completely different outlook. I referred to replacing James and Isco by Pogba and Odegaard + another DM to back up Casemiro.

Again i am not here to be a Pogba apologist. me thinking he can play for us in a double pivot was really a pipe dream so going back to a 3 man midfield he should be more productive than what he has shown at United because as an interior you dont need to be as positionally disciplined as a pivot in a 2 man midfield.

The theory is Pogba-Casemiro-Odegaard.

But again, Odegaard wants to stay at la Real another season. he is on a one year loan with a verbal agreement to go back again next summer. If he stays in madrid it's because the coach loves him and wants him around.

We always steamroll Galatasaray, but I’m quite happy with the football we’ve played in the first half. Anyone else watching this match?

Yeah, Rodrygo’s been on fire. I’m loving his productivity.

Benzema really makes our attack work.  We literally have nobody else that has that final 1/3 vision.  

Great game by Rodrygo of course.

I don't like our midfield...  at all.  They all lack technique and speed.  I like Valverde's activity and that's about it. There i said it.

Rodrygo hattrick without doing 10% of the rubbish vini loves to do, isn't rodrygo under pressure? Isn't he too young and raw? Lmao keep telling you guys stop using dribbling to indicate how well someone is playing.

Good win still too many crosses, Mendy looks a like donkey on the ball seems very clumsy and unsure hopefully he improves, modric needs to come off the bench around 60 to 70 mins, this team can be very good if the play just speeds up a bit more 1 touch and quick decision making.

I wonder how sustainable Valverde’s energy and physicality is. I guess we’ll find out eventually, once he gets a good number of rest-less matches as a starter under his belt. Casemiro needs rest.

sportsczy wrote:Benzema really makes our attack work.  We literally have nobody else that has that final 1/3 vision.  

Great game by Rodrygo of course.

I don't like our midfield...  at all.  They all lack technique and speed.  I like Valverde's activity and that's about it. There i said it.

No one gives a damnabout your French players, stop trying to find fault so you can turn around and recommend, Kante and Pogba cause that the point of this post.

Rodrygo is also young, the point is not to hype nor bash a player only in his teens. Last year people were going crazy over vini,. Let them grow, if Rodri has a bad game all of a sudden we'll start limping blame on him. Kids grow differently , advantage of this is, guys like vini shud watch this and focus on developing their craft. Spur competition.

I'm not in the business of bashing nor hyping kids, they have a whole lot of room to improve and make mistakes. Our best game so far this season. But I wonna see consistency. With the way barca are acting I wish we could really take advantage

Excited for Rodrygo and I think he has done well being coverted from playing on the left to now playing on the right. Considering Bale's status, Vini not playing well and lucas being lucas it's nice and refreshing to see our right side being covered well

titosantill wrote:Rodrygo is also young, the point is not to hype nor bash a player only in his teens. Last year people were going crazy over vini,. Let them grow, if Rodri has a bad game all of a sudden we'll start limping blame on him. Kids grow differently , advantage of this is, guys like vini shud watch this and focus on developing their craft. Spur competition.

I'm not in the business of bashing nor hyping kids, they have a whole lot of room to improve and make mistakes. Our best game so far this season. But I wonna see consistency. With the way barca are acting I wish we could really take advantage

Last year I was going crazy about Rodrygo

It's just striking how Rodrygo plays football in different terms than Vinicius. He is all about his first touch (which is clean af), movements and quality play. He gets along well with Benz because they see football the same. Vinicius is a différent beast, all gamble all speed all explosiveness. They each have their merits buy this year Rodrygo is having an edge

If by steadying, it means improving upon last season’s level of performance, then that was bound to happen sooner or later. We’ve acquired some players since then, and regardless of whether or not they’ve been great - they’re certainly a step up. Other than that, this is the weakest Barcelona team I can remember, Atletico are struggling as well, and we’ve really not looked convincing in the CL, bar this particular performance against Galatasaray.

I don’t want to sound too pessimistic, and I have no doubt that we’ll improve as our younger players get more comfortable in the team and the older ones slowly phase out, but we’ve got some way to go, still. Let’s talk about Zidane steadying the ship, once we get Pogba and Manchester United miraculously start performing more consistently with a replacement that is deemed mediocre by GL

Mr Nick09 wrote:It's just striking how Rodrygo plays football in different terms than Vinicius. He is all about his first touch (which is clean af), movements and quality play. He gets along well with Benz because they see football the same. Vinicius is a différent beast, all gamble all speed all explosiveness. They each have their merits buy this year Rodrygo is having an edge  

Cut it out Nick everyone is trying to give vini a free pass, with how he plays compared to rodrygo, vini is selfish same type of selfishness asensio and isco showed before him, he isn't gambling or any retarded reason like that.

he is just selfish and want the team to win because of him, it's obvious he is emulating cr games, just how hazard is doing now and asensio failed at, hogging ball doing fuckery all game long and wave off benzema, cause you know he is gonna take the heat if the team loses, just like against Ajax and barca play the worst and just gets away with it.

I like vini but the guy had like a handful of good games and most of his starts he has been awful, especially when media was using him to put pressure on the club for mbappe for the hundredth time, he is also very fake personality can say all the nice things and fake cry for deflect goals against osasuna, still play like a selfish little prick no matter how hard the team is trying to win, that why he isn't getting called up he isn't learning or trying to be a team player, just wanna fluke goals his whole career at the club and get praised for it.