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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:04 pm

You guys are rating managers like players. All due respect, those guys have career of experience with them, and all would make brilliant coaches for us. It's not a matter of "nowadays he isnt good, so i dont want him", but we have to look at whole picture.

Without getting into specifics, because this thread is too small for it, i think it's very diminutive to bring down Wenger because he is in a trophy drought with Arsenal. An educated footballer would go to the depth of the issue and look at what went wrong from the beginning.

There is no doubt that Wenger is paying for his past stubbornness, but it doesnt mean that if he starts a project anew, he will repeat the same mistakes.

Van Gaal is very old school, but focusing on this one aspect is very diminutive of everything else he brings with him, which to me is far more important.

Likewise, for Del Bosque, he is playing a different style with Spain when Xavi isnt playing, they are far more direct. Besides, he showed a very different style with Real Madrid in the past already.

Joachim Leow? he is gaining popularity with his very attacking style with Germany NT. But giving the reigns of a club as big as ours, to a coach with so underwhelming club experience is very odd to me. he plays attacking football, which is good, but we know very little about the way he would handle coaching Real Madrid. Coaching a NT is nothing like building a club, so huge risk.

All those other guys have a wealth of experience, club successes at the highest level, so Joachim low sticks out like a sore thumb.

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Post by S32TABLANCA on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:05 pm

IIRC, Del Bosque said he would never return to coach us again.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:08 pm

Saetablanca wrote:IIRC, Del Bosque said he would never return to coach us again.

where and when? source?
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Post by Adit on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:14 pm

Joquim alot proven than guardiola before he take charge at barcelona any way,past means nothing to me.If you are watching arsenal games you will understand the tactical knowledge difference between mourinho and wenger.Mou never get it wrong when it is about instantaneous tactics,while wenger almost always messes up,he gets outclassed tactically by some average coaches.Ferguson has found a established way of beating arsenal,what is wengers answer for it ? nothing for past several years.I honestly dont care about if a coach brings a system or not,if he isnt good enough he will always find a way to destruction.

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Post by guest7 on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:19 pm

Why do people always bring up Wengers trouphy drought and never even mention the Invinicibles? Do you think it's really THAT easy to go 49 games undefeated? It's hard as hell, and it requires a good coach, with a good philosophy and good players. Everything Wenger will have in Real Madrid if he comes.

I really think if Wenger comes, things will be brighter. (He can play Barca head to head, no PTB, just straight attacking etc)

Our cantera will finally get the chance it deserves and so on.
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Post by Guest on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:21 pm

Not writing Wenger off at all. During his first 5-7 years, he was a bit lucky that he inherited a tough, veteran and crazy competitive defense with Dixon, Keown and Adams. He soon hit the jackpot with Ashley Cole and that defense was set in the early 00s. My concern is that he's had problems with his defense since... it's not an aberration.

A one-dimensional manager will not survive at Madrid. One or two of the crazy game results he's had at Arsenal and Wenger would be on the street if he were our manager.

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Post by guest7 on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:23 pm

@sportsczy wrote:Not writing Wenger off at all. During his first 5-7 years, he was a bit lucky that he inherited a tough, veteran and crazy competitive defense with Dixon, Keown and Adams. He soon hit the jackpot with Ashley Cole and that defense was set in the early 00s. My concern is that he's had problems with his defense since... it's not an aberration.

A one-dimensional manager will not survive at Madrid. One or two of the crazy game results he's had at Arsenal and Wenger would be on the street if he were our manager.

That is true, but our defence is already set. All he will do if he arrives now is add Varane. I'm actually quite sure Varane will play if Wenger comes, I mean, Varane is french and young. Everything Wenger loves LOL
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Post by FennecFox7 on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:24 pm

I agree with sport.. and I'm a forward! All good teams start with defense
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Post by EarlyPrototype on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:25 pm

Not winning anything for 7 years is a big factor. So it should be brought up.
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Post by guest7 on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:27 pm

@EarlyPrototype wrote:Not winning anything for 7 years is a big factor. So it should be brought up.

I think it's more to it than the eye meets. I think Wenger isn't spending becouse

a) he is building up for FFP
b) board restrictions
c) or just stubborn

Without spending much at ALL, he has come 4th each season in Premier League, qualifying for CL. There are not many who that. He also has shown he can give youths their chance, he even discovered messi when he was young.

I genuinly think that Wenger can win if he comes to Madrid. It will be hard to make Wenger leave Arsenal though.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:28 pm

He didnt won anything in a long time, but he was never in the bottom half of the league either, always top four, playing semis in CL etc... Let's not make it sound as if he ruined Arsenal. The group is just as much to blame imo, and he payed his stubbornness for not signing better, as opposed to him being an incapable coach.

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Post by guest7 on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:30 pm

Ever since Arsene has become Arsenals coach their economy has gone up. And they need it for FFP. Imagine if he goes to a club where he doesn't have to restrict himself to FFP, he doesn't even need to buy anything he loves canteras anyways and the team is pretty much set.

I'm not gonna lie, but my dream coach for Madrid is really Wenger, after Del Bosque.
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Post by EarlyPrototype on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:33 pm

I am not saying that the 7 year drought is the only thing to take into consideration I am saying it is an important thing to take into account. Anyway Wenger has always had a good team and always failed to win anything. I mean any top class manager would have prevented that 8-2 loss.
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Post by guest7 on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:35 pm

@EarlyPrototype wrote:I am not saying that the 7 year drought is the only thing to take into consideration I am saying it is an important thing to take into account. Anyway Wenger has always had a good team and always failed to win anything. I mean any top class manager would have prevented that 8-2 loss.

They were missing like 7 key players and almost all their bench players. That 8-2 was bound to happen especially since Man Utd are among top 3. And Wenger refuses to PTB, playing entertaining football is important to him. Even if he was down 5 goals he kept playing his usual entertaining football.
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Post by Guest on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:36 pm

I really don't care about the trophy thing because he's been handcuffed by the club's debt and had no choice but to play the young players... he's been brilliant there.

What i really am concerned about is the lack of defensive tactics at Arsenal. There are major schematic issues with how Arsenal defends. And we're talking about EPL attacks here.... they don't exactly scare anyone in terms of diversity and complexity lol. How can we expect him to up his defensive gameplan to cope with the creative and inventive schemes La Liga brings forward? Other than that, i love him lol.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:37 pm

@Adit wrote:Joquim alot proven than guardiola before he take charge at barcelona any way,past means nothing to me.If you are watching arsenal games you will understand the tactical knowledge difference between mourinho and wenger.Mou never get it wrong when it is about instantaneous tactics,while wenger almost always messes up,he gets outclassed tactically by some average coaches.Ferguson has found a established way of beating arsenal,what is wengers answer for it ? nothing for past several years.I honestly dont care about if a coach brings a system or not,if he isnt good enough he will always find a way to destruction.

I cant really argue much with you if that's the way you look at things. There are things about that post that are wrong, because just last week, Luis Garcia was tactically hurting us, but we have spectacular players and we made it through... not worth arguing over tho.

There are very specific things that made it possible for Guardiola to become barcelona coach. The fact that he was Cryuff barca's playmaker, went through the whole barca coaching process, mastered and embraced the logic of total football in perfect harmony with the way barcelona is playing, made it all possible. In terms of what Barcelona is as a concept, Guardiola was very experienced. Other factors such as leadership, calmness etc... are things that they evaluated in intern and were convinced with. It's not the same thing at all, specially when they have shown they were more patient than us, and showed that they could get behind a novice coach and could give him a shot. Circumstances are completely different.

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Post by EarlyPrototype on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:39 pm

omarish wrote:
@EarlyPrototype wrote:I am not saying that the 7 year drought is the only thing to take into consideration I am saying it is an important thing to take into account. Anyway Wenger has always had a good team and always failed to win anything. I mean any top class manager would have prevented that 8-2 loss.

They were missing like 7 key players and almost all their bench players. That 8-2 was bound to happen especially since Man Utd are among top 3. And Wenger refuses to PTB, playing entertaining football is important to him. Even if he was down 5 goals he kept playing his usual entertaining football.

The team Arsenal had out on the field is still better than any champions ship team and EPL relegation team. The players he had were enough to prevent 8 goals being scored. Wenger is over rated.
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Post by guest7 on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:42 pm

Like I said before, yes Wenger lacks some when it comes to defence. But our defence is set, he will most likely just go for a
Ramos/Carvajal - Ramos/Varane - Pepe - Marcelo

If he comes. As long as we keep Wenger in this era we will be fine defensively...
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Post by EarlyPrototype on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:44 pm

Our defense is never set. We always have problems with our defense. We still do with the best manager in the world when it comes to defensive tactics.
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Post by guest7 on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:45 pm

@EarlyPrototype wrote:Our defense is never set. We always have problems with our defense. We still do with the best manager in the world when it comes to defensive tactics.

Our defense could be fine, but Mou is still insisting on Carvalho. Other than that, we can't judge from these games lately becouse our defence hasn't been properly covered by the midfield lately. Let's not forget that Wenger plays possesion football. Possesion = Defence in a way
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Post by EarlyPrototype on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:47 pm

Even last year we had problems with our defense. Wenger will get obliterated by Barca. Mou is closing the gap whereas Wenger will get raped on every occasion we face them.
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Post by Guest on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:48 pm

Pepe, Ramos and Marcelo are not the best in terms of tactical awareness. Only reason they are doing ok is that Mou is probably threatening their lives if they do something stupid lol... Mou's also making sure that the rest of the team, especially the midfielders, are helping out defensively all the time.

If we commit our mids to the attacks like Arsenal does or Bayern with Van Gaal did, it would get ugly. Not only would we give up a lot of goals, but red cards would start flying again lol.

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Post by guest7 on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:51 pm

Blah, guys... Wenger has shown he is capable of taking down Barca with usual attacking tactics. And that was without a defense.

He will do OK, I'm sure of that.
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Post by EarlyPrototype on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:54 pm

He was the luckiest person in the world when they beat Barca in the first leg. Messi had a legit goal disallowed and they missed many many chances and Arsenal took advantage of that. Not often Barca have poor efficiency.
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Post by guest7 on Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:02 pm

@EarlyPrototype wrote:He was the luckiest person in the world when they beat Barca in the first leg. Messi had a legit goal disallowed and they missed many many chances and Arsenal took advantage of that. Not often Barca have poor efficiency.

They did it before aswell..

Btw, the luckfactor counts to any team. Barca were lucky with Pepe red card, the RVP card, and that they didnt get humiliated in Santiago Bernabeu. That is how football is sometimes. Luck is the deciding factor in everything

Anyways, I really feel as Wenger is really underrated now, but in fact he has been one of the best coaches in this decade.
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Post by EarlyPrototype on Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:06 pm

Wenger is over rated not under rated. Arsenal did not have a single shot on goal at the Camp Nou he got completely out played. Wenger relies a lot on possession football and when you play Barca and try to out pass them well that is not really a good idea.
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