Pato???

i've always been pato's biggest fan, always touting him to be the next big thing in the world of football, supporting him through injuries, bad form and inconsistency, i even went as far as to say that he was as good as messi and can be even better????(on several occassions, and may people are making fun of me because of that!), however 2 years later and i'm starting to ask myself:

was i right about him in the first place?
has he really improved since his debut season foor us??
is he growing as a person and footballer??

unfortunately the basic answer to all these questions is No,No and Hell No...

he's really not getting anywhere, in the past we used to blame it on injuries but he's been ok since the begenning of the season and he's still very inconsistent, this is very disappointing and concerning at the same time..

i'm starting to think that pato is just another recoba, adriano, van persie or any other footballer who just never achieved his full potential..
his relationship with berlusconi's daughter is doing him any good either!, i see now that his attitude is getting worse too, totally unjustified behaviour against maggio, disgusting to watch...


i'm not deeming pato for failure though, he can still be a very good player, as i said i'm his biggest fan and a true believer in his potential and abilities, but that potential remains just that!, potential...

every season we start to fool ourselves by saying, this is it, this is the season that pato is going tp "explode"!, and then we make up for that by saying, ok maybe it's next season and years are passing by and the problem is that he's not improving at all!!, injuries arn't the only reason IMO, what pato can do today he could do 3 season ago propably even better, this isn't good not good at all...

last night he inexplicably bad, just terrible, disgusting to watch, even the horrible bonera did better!, his touch on the ball, finishing, dribbling, ball control, decision making, movement, he was just bad..


i'm seriously thinking that we should sell him to man city, chelsea and focus on Elshaarawi instead and bring another young talent or something because pato isn't going to explode at all, instead he's going to self-destruct!!......


your thoughts??

I agree Fadi that Pato goes through some rough patch. But, its his 3rd official match this season, and people are knee jerking like crazy. Give him time to settle.

Look Fadi, you're my friend and I've proved I'm one of yours, but let me make it clear what I think when I read such a thread from you:

You were exaggerating in lauding Pato's abilities from the first year he came, and now you're claiming he hasn't developed for shit.

What you could be called is an extremist in your Footballing views.


Pato was never ever as talented as Messi, the Argentine is fast turning into the best Footballer in history, but the boy is still one of, if not the, best second/shadow/supporting strikers in the world.

Trouble is, Ancelotti and Leonardo knew Pato like they know their own moms, and unfortunately, Allegri doesn't as good as those two, and this is not helping his cause.

Only moments of sheer genius like against Barca come out of Pato and I don't think he was assigned by allegri to run at top speed right after the kick-off, it was his own personal idea.

Tactically, we aren't doing anything in favor of Barbara's lover.


Now that there's a separate thread, let's do a quick analysis on Alexandre to see what's wrong.


What does Pato have? Well...

He is arguably the fastest attacker on earth.
He is pretty sharp on the ball and can often get past his marker.
He's proved to be a deadly attacker, although not as clinical as the likes of CR7.

Since last season he has become a willing runner too, as he destroyed Inter's back-line by constant movement, intelligent movement actually.


So, speed, sharpness, scoring touch and running a lot.

Now tell me Fadi, which of these attributes are being used by him only to fail? Almost none, because e.g. whenever he has gone from gear 3-4 to top gear, nobody has been able to stop him.


What Milan and Brazil fail to do is letting him, or if he is too confused, forcing him to use his main attributes to their best and then see if he still fails.

What we saw yesterday was an isolated young striker who had virtually nobody to support him, and he ain't Tsubassa FFS, he can't make it on his own.


Which season did Pato flourish in? We all know too well: 2008-09, when he managed to play 36 Serie-A games and score 18 goals.

He didn't get injured much, he had Kaka and Seedorf behind him and Inzaghi next to him, so at the age of 19, he put on display some glimpses of what a frightening force he was then, and just how better he could get in near future.


His biggest problem, in any case, hasn't been injuries or non-existent support and whatnot, but the crushing pressure that fans like us imposed on him and asked him to be the best player of the decade at the age of 18.

Well, he couldn't, and he didn't have to.


All we need to do is supporting Pato with players of more or less similar characteristics and decrease the pressure.

I wanna make a bet: If in a given Serie-A game, Allegri fielded an attacking trident of Shaarawy-Pato-Binho, supported by Boateng, and the no.7 didn't play a fantastic game, then you can call me whatever you want.


Like I said in the other thread about my personal experience, if surrounded by fast players like himself, Pato is bound to thrive, no questioning that whatsoever.



No offense Fadi, I really mean it.
Just felt like expressing my inner thoughts at the beginning of the post.

finally someone not giving a knee jerk reaction

IrasMaldinista wrote:Look Fadi, you're my friend and I've proved I'm one of yours, but let me make it clear what I think when I read such a thread from you:

You were exaggerating in lauding Pato's abilities from the first year he came, and now you're claiming he hasn't developed for shit.

What you could be called is an extremist in your Footballing views.


Pato was never ever as talented as Messi, the Argentine is fast turning into the best Footballer in history, but the boy is still one of, if not the, best second/shadow/supporting strikers in the world.

Trouble is, Ancelotti and Leonardo knew Pato like they know their own moms, and unfortunately, Allegri doesn't as good as those two, and this is not helping his cause.

Only moments of sheer genius like against Barca come out of Pato and I don't think he was assigned by allegri to run at top speed right after the kick-off, it was his own personal idea.

Tactically, we aren't doing anything in favor of Barbara's lover.


Now that there's a separate thread, let's do a quick analysis on Alexandre to see what's wrong.


What does Pato have? Well...

He is arguably the fastest attacker on earth.
He is pretty sharp on the ball and can often get past his marker.
He's proved to be a deadly attacker, although not as clinical as the likes of CR7.

Since last season he has become a willing runner too, as he destroyed Inter's back-line by constant movement, intelligent movement actually.


So, speed, sharpness, scoring touch and running a lot.

Now tell me Fadi, which of these attributes are being used by him only to fail? Almost none, because e.g. whenever he has gone from gear 3-4 to top gear, nobody has been able to stop him.


What Milan and Brazil fail to do is letting him, or if he is too confused, forcing him to use his main attributes to their best and then see if he still fails.

What we saw yesterday was an isolated young striker who had virtually nobody to support him, and he ain't Tsubassa FFS, he can't make it on his own.


Which season did Pato flourish in? We all know too well: 2008-09, when he managed to play 36 Serie-A games and score 18 goals.

He didn't get injured much, he had Kaka and Seedorf behind him and Inzaghi next to him, so at the age of 19, he put on display some glimpses of what a frightening force he was then, and just how better he could get in near future.


His biggest problem, in any case, hasn't been injuries or non-existent support and whatnot, but the crushing pressure that fans like us imposed on him and asked him to be the best player of the decade at the age of 18.

Well, he couldn't, and he didn't have to.


All we need to do is supporting Pato with players of more or less similar characteristics and decrease the pressure.

I wanna make a bet: If in a given Serie-A game, Allegri fielded an attacking trident of Shaarawy-Pato-Binho, supported by Boateng, and the no.7 didn't play a fantastic game, then you can call me whatever you want.


Like I said in the other thread about my personal experience, if surrounded by fast players like himself, Pato is bound to thrive, no questioning that whatsoever.



No offense Fadi, I really mean it.
Just felt like expressing my inner thoughts at the beginning of the post.

i fully respect your opinion iras, i may have exaggerated his abilities in the begenning, i realize that very well now, so i agree with you about that, anyway what i don't agree with you about is his developement..

i seriously don't think that pato has improved in real way since carletto was in charge!, he has in fact got worse in a number of aspects, his dribbling for example got worse, even his pace, i feel that he lost some pace, if you think what he did against barca was awsome you should go back and check some the runs he used to make in carlett and leonardo's days..

reason??, many reasons ofcourse, carletto is one of them, since he left us and pato hasn't really get anywhere IMO, he played a huge part in pato's development, under his reign pato was simply one of the very best attackers in serie A and the best younsgter in the world, he was a joy to watch and i might be wrong about this but i actually think he was more consistent under carletto than he is now...

other reasons??, his relationship with berlu's daughter isn't in his favour in any particular way, too much attention is given to his personal life and this can be devastating for a young player(see balotelli!!)...

as you said, allegri is part of the problem too, a very big one indeed, his formations and playstyle arn't suited to pato's way of play and doesn't look like he is going to change that anytime soon!. the partnership with either ibra or cassano isn't working, and yess, i'd love too see him playing alongside robinho & Elshaarawi but we all know this isn't going to happen, simply too much fun in allegri's dark, dull and drab world...so we should stop dreaming..

anyway, long reply my friend but my point is that pato isn't improving in a ny real way, the stuff he's doing today he could do(propably even better!) 2 years ago, discuss if you wish..

Fadi wrote:i've always been pato's biggest fan, always touting him to be the next big thing in the world of football, supporting him through injuries, bad form and inconsistency, i even went as far as to say that he was as good as messi and can be even better????(on several occassions, and may people are making fun of me because of that!), however 2 years later and i'm starting to ask myself:

was i right about him in the first place?
has he really improved since his debut season foor us??
is he growing as a person and footballer??

unfortunately the basic answer to all these questions is No,No and Hell No...

he's really not getting anywhere, in the past we used to blame it on injuries but he's been ok since the begenning of the season and he's still very inconsistent, this is very disappointing and concerning at the same time..

i'm starting to think that pato is just another recoba, adriano, van persie or any other footballer who just never achieved his full potential..
his relationship with berlusconi's daughter is doing him any good either!, i see now that his attitude is getting worse too, totally unjustified behaviour against maggio, disgusting to watch...


i'm not deeming pato for failure though, he can still be a very good player, as i said i'm his biggest fan and a true believer in his potential and abilities, but that potential remains just that!, potential...

every season we start to fool ourselves by saying, this is it, this is the season that pato is going tp "explode"!, and then we make up for that by saying, ok maybe it's next season and years are passing by and the problem is that he's not improving at all!!, injuries arn't the only reason IMO, what pato can do today he could do 3 season ago propably even better, this isn't good not good at all...

last night he inexplicably bad, just terrible, disgusting to watch, even the horrible bonera did better!, his touch on the ball, finishing, dribbling, ball control, decision making, movement, he was just bad..


i'm seriously thinking that we should sell him to man city, chelsea and focus on Elshaarawi instead and bring another young talent or something because pato isn't going to explode at all, instead he's going to self-destruct!!......


your thoughts??

why the hell everytime when Pato or another player has a bad day, or playing like shit people always trying to sell them?
there's no need to exagerrate, especially when all team was a shit.

Chagur wrote:

Fadi wrote:i've always been pato's biggest fan, always touting him to be the next big thing in the world of football, supporting him through injuries, bad form and inconsistency, i even went as far as to say that he was as good as messi and can be even better????(on several occassions, and may people are making fun of me because of that!), however 2 years later and i'm starting to ask myself:

was i right about him in the first place?
has he really improved since his debut season foor us??
is he growing as a person and footballer??

unfortunately the basic answer to all these questions is No,No and Hell No...

he's really not getting anywhere, in the past we used to blame it on injuries but he's been ok since the begenning of the season and he's still very inconsistent, this is very disappointing and concerning at the same time..

i'm starting to think that pato is just another recoba, adriano, van persie or any other footballer who just never achieved his full potential..
his relationship with berlusconi's daughter is doing him any good either!, i see now that his attitude is getting worse too, totally unjustified behaviour against maggio, disgusting to watch...


i'm not deeming pato for failure though, he can still be a very good player, as i said i'm his biggest fan and a true believer in his potential and abilities, but that potential remains just that!, potential...

every season we start to fool ourselves by saying, this is it, this is the season that pato is going tp "explode"!, and then we make up for that by saying, ok maybe it's next season and years are passing by and the problem is that he's not improving at all!!, injuries arn't the only reason IMO, what pato can do today he could do 3 season ago propably even better, this isn't good not good at all...

last night he inexplicably bad, just terrible, disgusting to watch, even the horrible bonera did better!, his touch on the ball, finishing, dribbling, ball control, decision making, movement, he was just bad..


i'm seriously thinking that we should sell him to man city, chelsea and focus on Elshaarawi instead and bring another young talent or something because pato isn't going to explode at all, instead he's going to self-destruct!!......


your thoughts??

why the hell everytime when Pato or another player has a bad day, or playing like shit people always trying to sell them?
there's no need to exagerrate, especially when all team was a shit.

you're missing the point here!, i'm not saying we should sell him because he's had a bad game!, all the players had a bad game as well(although pato was worst IMO), it's just that i don't think pato is getting anywhere, he's not improving at all, and add to that all those injury woes and inconsistency...

it's been going for 2 years now, he's not that young anymore, if he doesn't make the jumb soon he'll never be able to make it..

I understand the frustration by all. Lets hope he can stay injury-free for a long time, so we can truly rate him this season, starting off against Udinese, Wednesday.

Its only fair that we rate anyone, even young players. We dont wanna end up like Arsenal.

lets swap him for balotelli

I've always been hard on Pato from the start. That being said, I will always give a player time to prove himself.

I was actually going to compliment Pato on his skills, I feel as if they have improved. Before he was more like Messi (He used his pace and change angles), these days I have been seeing some impressive skills from Pato.

The only reason Pato might have lost some pace is because he put on some muscle. As we all saw in the Barca game, Pato is still capable of leaving multiple defenders behind.

I'm going to have to agree with Iras on this one. When Leonardo was around I think it suited Pato. Ronaldinho definitely knew how to use him and at the moment his biggest problem would be lack of support.

Guys, he is 22 years old give the kid a break. I think we are all being harsh on him because we had the expectation of being the Brazilian Messi, when we just need to let him be himself. He is a very clinical finisher and has proved that on many occasions, we just need to let him play. He is a lot better as a second striker, but right now he is playing as a point man and is obviously not comfortable there, we need to just give him the freedom to express himself, like when he was young.

Milantildeath wrote:Guys, he is 22 years old give the kid a break. I think we are all being harsh on him because we had the expectation of being the Brazilian Messi, when we just need to let him be himself. He is a very clinical finisher and has proved that on many occasions, we just need to let him play. He is a lot better as a second striker, but right now he is playing as a point man and is obviously not comfortable there, we need to just give him the freedom to express himself, like when he was young.

Thanks for saving my time to write this.

As a 22 years old player, he is actually very impressive as a long as we don't compare him with Messi.

Pato's development isn't as rapid as expected as he was already good as a kid, but he is developing at least.
We can see it by just see him, he has bulked up a lot, he can now go shoulder to shoulder with defender and still keep the ball. Then his finishing, which made him as one of the best finisher at least in Serie A currently, back then he often shoot straight to the keeper or missed the goal.

Some of his stats, not important though, but we could see his finishing development here:

2007/2008 : 63 shoots 42.9% on target 9 goals (7 shoots/goal)
2008/2009 : 99 shoots 37.4% on target 15 goals (6.6 shoots/goal)
2009/2010 : 57 shoots 49.1% on target 12 goals (4.75 shoots/goal)
2010/2011 : 62 shoots 48.3% on target 14 goals (4.4 shoots/goal)

His close control and passing are also improved IMO (debatable), if you see him as a player, he has improved and still improving but not rapidly. We just need to give him and our coaching staff the faith, criticize him is fair but to even have an idea to sell him is too far IMO.

And also this is still the very early stage of our long season, he still has a lot of time to show his worth (again) just like the 2nd half of last season when he was under heavy pressure. I know that we have a disappointing start, and losing 3-1 against Napoli without determination and grit, but I don't get it why you guys blame our innocent Pato, or our god Abate, while Antonini and Bonera are still in our squad. They should be the one to be blamed that's why Galliani keep them. Every movements they made both on and off the pitch was mistakes that could change the game if we lose.

This thread is a huge overreaction. When we beat Udinese (hopefully) this will all be forgotten.

Pato has scored every time he has played against Udinese at the San Siro, scored twice last year.

Surely he will shine again? (touch wood)

so i take it that i'm the only one here annoyed at how inconsistent pato is??
also it seems that i'm the only one who thinks pato hasn't developed much during the past 2 years??, ok his finishing has slightly improved but what what else?..

also it's quite funny how everyone is talking about how we are going to beat udinese like it's a given!!, considering our current form and the inujries it won't an easy match at all, i can see us drawing again if we manage another sloppy display, everything is possible at this stage...

Udinese are very dangerous team, it won't be an easy game for sure. But we will see if there will be some change made by Allegri.

And Fadi, Pato's inconsistency and slow development are mostly caused by his injuries. (IMO) And I don't really concerned about his slow development as he is already this good, and still 22, still has a lot of time and space to develop.

It's becoming ridiculous.Again...
I am not so sure , what's to become with Pato's injuries , but i am starting to believe , that , it may be his own "football", his playing style that forces his injuries..

Can't back it up right now , though. What's sure is , Pato and Milan must try and erase his injuries , somehow , otherwise Fadi will be right in what he says,eventually ..

seems he gets more injuries than Arjen Robben

well here we go again!, another mysterious injury, a month away, this is just too much..

with pato it's always something, either injuries or bad form when he's healthy and in-form he's among the very best in the world but how often do we see that happening?, and let's face it allegri isn't using really using pato to his strengths at all. since we have Elshaarawi now i really think we should sell him next summer..

As Allegri and his medical staff said, these kind of injuries are not normal at his age.
How can a player develop when he is out 1 month here, and 1 month there many times during a year?

Fadi wrote:well here we go again!, another mysterious injury, a month away, this is just too much..

with pato it's always something, either injuries or bad form when he's healthy and in-form he's among the very best in the world but how often do we see that happening?, and let's face it allegri isn't using really using pato to his strengths at all. since we have Elshaarawi now i really think we should sell him next summer..

I'll disagree with you.

Those Pato's injures frustrate and piss me off every time, but who do you want for a replacement?
Ballotelli, Amauri, Paloschi?
Couse we all know that Milan won't replace him with WC player and barely use the money at all.
I'm pretty sure we'll cover some debt again and It's not like we are gonna buy Cavani, Kun or another proper replacement. We already have a bunch of mediocre players. And I don't want another Oliveira, Di Gennaro or Oduamadi.
Besides, If Pato is inconsistent, Balotelli is even worse.He's got a talent, but at the same time he is
raw player with shit attitude.
Replacing Pato with Balotelli would be the biggest ever. We can't afford to sell again our star (potential star), Milan have put so much time and resources in his developing, that it would be a stupidity to just give up and sell for the value Pato has these days, better keep him. There is still hope.

Chagur wrote:

Fadi wrote:well here we go again!, another mysterious injury, a month away, this is just too much..

with pato it's always something, either injuries or bad form when he's healthy and in-form he's among the very best in the world but how often do we see that happening?, and let's face it allegri isn't using really using pato to his strengths at all. since we have Elshaarawi now i really think we should sell him next summer..

I'll disagree with you.

Those Pato's injures frustrate and piss me off every time, but who do you want for a replacement?
Ballotelli, Amauri, Paloschi?
Couse we all know that Milan won't replace him with WC player and barely use the money at all.
I'm pretty sure we'll cover some debt again and It's not like we are gonna buy Cavani, Kun or another proper replacement. We already have a bunch of mediocre players. And I don't want another Oliveira, Di Gennaro or Oduamadi.
Besides, If Pato is inconsistent, Balotelli is even worse.He's got a talent, but at the same time he is
raw player with shit attitude.
Replacing Pato with Balotelli would be the biggest ever. We can't afford to sell again our star (potential star), Milan have put so much time and resources in his developing, that it would be a stupidity to just give up and sell for the value Pato has these days, better keep him. There is still hope.

who said anything about balotelli, paloschi or amauri???, balotelli is IMO the most overrated youngster in the world and he's a spoiled one too, paloschi is also very overrated and extremely hyped by fellow milan fans(don't really know why??), beretta is better than him, amauri???, seriously?
when i talk about replacements i mean players like cavai, ganso and neymar!. i think that if we can bring a true WC player then we should sell him, otherwise we should stick him and bear up with his frequent injuries and i guarantee you this won't be the last one!..

pato's current injuries are getting away over-the-top, something must be done, the situation cannot go on like that..

Fadi wrote:who said anything about balotelli, paloschi or amauri???, balotelli is IMO the most overrated youngster in the world and he's a spoiled one too, paloschi is also very overrated and extremely hyped by fellow milan fans(don't really know why??), beretta is better than him, amauri???, seriously?
when i talk about replacements i mean players like cavai, ganso and neymar!. i think that if we can bring a true WC player then we should sell him, otherwise we should stick him and bear up with his frequent injuries and i guarantee you this won't be the last one!..

pato's current injuries are getting away over-the-top, something must be done, the situation cannot go on like that..

the players you mentioned are all above our spending prowess. except maybe ganso, but he aint a striker. and right now i cant think of many young strikers with the same potential who could possibly replace him.

but basically i share your opinion. we should slowly start to look at alternatives while still hoping that this pato issue has a positive end.

vu wrote:

Fadi wrote:who said anything about balotelli, paloschi or amauri???, balotelli is IMO the most overrated youngster in the world and he's a spoiled one too, paloschi is also very overrated and extremely hyped by fellow milan fans(don't really know why??), beretta is better than him, amauri???, seriously?
when i talk about replacements i mean players like cavai, ganso and neymar!. i think that if we can bring a true WC player then we should sell him, otherwise we should stick him and bear up with his frequent injuries and i guarantee you this won't be the last one!..

pato's current injuries are getting away over-the-top, something must be done, the situation cannot go on like that..

the players you mentioned are all above our spending prowess. except maybe ganso, but he aint a striker. and right now i cant think of many young strikers with the same potential who could possibly replace him.

but basically i share your opinion. we should slowly start to look at alternatives while still hoping that this pato issue has a positive end.

Ganso is even more injury prone than Pato, and would cost at least 25m.

When I saw Ganso play during Copa America he seemed so damn slow. He is as slow as Pirlo, only he is so young! What will happen when he gets older, he will start walking backwards?