Re: Italian National Team Thread

by Luca Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:48 am

zarola wrote:I swear to *bleep* god if I see that pony-tailed *censored* starting our matches ZSKDJAKSJDASKD

this could've been a fantastic team.

Now I see Bonucci , Abate, Diamanti, Giaccherini, Balzaretti and I shiver. Hopefully they will never see a second of playtime.

IF we're going to introduce randoms to our team why not introduce ones that are at least young or have done *bleep* something all year. The fact that Giaccherini gets the go ahead of Simone Pepe is absolutely *bleep* disgraceful, not that I would die for Pepe to be in our team, ( I wouldn't mind him) , but REALLY.... what has Giaccherini done ? and look at what Pepe's done, numerous of times he's put juve on his *bleep* back, that trophy is all his, giaccherini did nothing for it.

Who is this Diamanti shit? 29 years old, never got a call up... must be good.
Balzaretti? again 29 years old and he's done nothing all year and he was mediocre last season. Abate? Loses big games, all he's got is speed, he can't defend, he's so clumsy. Bonucci on the team is no one's fault but a lack of Italian CB talent.

The fact that I see goal.com commenters complain about ogbonna being in serie b on the team is HILARIOUS. he was italy's best defender against usa, what a boss, he's going to be fantastic and fully deserves that starting LB position.

At least all of our strikers are beasts. can't complain about a single one of them unless balotelli does stupid shit.

Diamanti would probably do better than Montolivo as the trequartista, no doubt in my mind.
Montolivo just offers absolutely nothing.
You have Pirlo, DDR, Marchisio and Montolivo in the midfield. All four of them operate too similarly, there is no width, there is no creativity directly behind the strikers either. This is a big time failure of a midfield.

Balzaretti and Maggio :facepalm:

I take back all the nice things I said about Maggio as a fullback.
I would start Abate and Ogbonna. Chiellini and Barzagli in the centre.
That's probably the only good thing I can take from this game about the defense, the fact that Chiellini wasn't there. His absence showing that he is Italy's most important defender? Absolutely. :coffee:

Balotelli was immense, loved his play, the man can make something out of nothing but he needs to make a couple of his tries end up in the net once the tournament does begin. Also, his aggressiveness tracking back might be his downfall, picked up a yellow for a stupid challenge and was involved in another brush up afterwards challenging for the ball in the air. He needs to relax because no referee will give him the benefit of the doubt.

I think I want to see:

Balotelli
Giovinco-Cassano
Marchisio-Pirlo-DDR
Ogbonna-Chiellini-Barzagli-Abate
Buffon

With Di Natale first off the bench

by Rebaño Sagrado Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:51 am

No 3-5-2?

by Luca Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:55 am

Rebaño Sagrado wrote:No 3-5-2?

It could work, obviously it suits Maggio better but who on the left?
Giaccherini? Balzaretti? Then the left side becomes another weak spot
But in any case, the 3-5-2 seems like a far better alternative to the 4-3-1-2 that we saw today

by Rebaño Sagrado Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:59 am

Yeah I couldn't think of a solid wing back on the left. That's why I asked instead of posting an actual line up lol

Balotelli was surprisingly great today but...

Pirlo :bow:

by Luca Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:20 am

Rebaño Sagrado wrote:Yeah I couldn't think of a solid wing back on the left. That's why I asked instead of posting an actual line up lol

Balotelli was surprisingly great today but...

Pirlo

Pirlo is Pirlo :bow:

The 3-5-2 would still be better than the 4-3-1-2 but the left side isn't too strong in terms of option. I think 4 defenders offers more stability, with the defenders that Italy has brought. Bonucci and Maggio are much better suited to the 3-5-2 though.

by Twoism Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:16 am

leemhuis wrote:Italy will not make it out of the group. Ireland and Spain will. At one time Italy and Netherlands were equal now we are a much stronger team and we are a much smaller country. Serie A is good because of foreigners, not Italian player.

What does it has anything to do with the size of the country? Every nation has to go through dry spell of talents, that's just how it works. It took Germany nearly a decades to get this new batch of talents.

On the game, this is worrying sign for Italian fans, four losses in the row and clearly the team is not ready. To add in more pressure, the 1st game against Spain is the most important one, a loss there might mean another 2010 repeat.

A 3-5-2 might work and should be considered for the 1st game, Maggio & Abate on the wings, use workhorse to compensate for creativity, hit on counter attack. Prandelli wants to play short passes and beautiful football but probably not the smartest thing to fight fire with fire. Prandelli is good coach but he can't work magic and I hope he's less stubborn than his predecessor. The midfield looks too lopsided now with 4 identical players + Pirlo. Montovillo can't press since he has stamina of a twelve years old, DDR did even less than Marchisio, and often step on each other toes. Either of them + Motta might be more balance.

by rwo power Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:57 am

Well, I just hope that Gigi Buffon will be fully match-fit for the Euro (I read he was taken off as precaution as he was slightly injured). I fear with de Sanctis you'd have some accidents waiting to happen in goal.

by M99 Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:31 am

If Prandelli goes for a 4 man defence, Abate should start over Maggio and please NO MONTOLIVO AS TQ. Giovinco should be there, it's a pain seeing Montolivo there, almost as painful as seeing Emanuelson.

by Katy Perry Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:04 am

M99 wrote:NO MONTOLIVO AS TQ. Giovinco should be there, it's a pain seeing Montolivo there

It's not that we have better choices, Diamanti and Giaccherini
We can just change tactics adding a striker (Gio, Di Natale) and going with a 4-3-3 or adding a cb and going for a safer 3-5-2

I think we should trust more on Di Natale, he's been the best striker in Serie A for the last 3 years

by ErPupone Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:17 am

leemhuis wrote:Italy will not make it out of the group. Ireland and Spain will. At one time Italy and Netherlands were equal now we are a much stronger team and we are a much smaller country. Serie A is good because of foreigners, not Italian player.

Please explain why Russia, Canada or China are not football powerhouses if this is a way to judge ...

by Luca Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:25 am

ErPupone wrote:
leemhuis wrote:Italy will not make it out of the group. Ireland and Spain will. At one time Italy and Netherlands were equal now we are a much stronger team and we are a much smaller country. Serie A is good because of foreigners, not Italian player.

Please explain why Russia, Canada or China are not football powerhouses if this is a way to judge ...

Simple, it's not a way to explain

jay07 wrote:
M99 wrote:NO MONTOLIVO AS TQ. Giovinco should be there, it's a pain seeing Montolivo there
It's not that we have better choices, Diamanti and Giaccherini
We can just change tactics adding a striker (Gio, Di Natale) and going with a 4-3-3 or adding a cb and going for a safer 3-5-2

I think we should trust more on Di Natale, he's been the best striker in Serie A for the last 3 years

I think Italy is much better off playing with a different formation than a 4-3-1-2, as you have pointed out a couple that are much better on paper at least.

Giovinco could function as a trequartista much better than Montolivo, that's for sure but still it isn't really his best position either.

The only thing I know is that Balotelli-Cassano has to be the focal point of the attack. Pirlo, DDR and Marchisio are also immovable. Chiellini is the heart of the defense. These are the things I know for sure about this squad

by M99 Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:30 am

With the absence of Criscito, 3-5-2 will be difficult. Maybe Giacherrini could play on the left. Can someone explain why Italy had only one friendly before the Euros? They could have used ore friendlies for some vital experimentation and try out different formations with different players.

Two formations that will be better than 4-3-1-2.

Buffon

Bonucci/Ogbonna-Barzagli-Chiellini

Maggio-DDR-Pirlo-Nocerino/Marchisio-Giacherrini

Cassano-Balotelli/Di Natale

Buffon

Abate-Barzagli-Chiellini-Balzaretti/Ogbonna

DDR-Pirlo-Nocerino/Marchisio

Cassano-Giovinco

Di Natale/Balotelli

by dostoevsky Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:51 am

One friendly was cancelled due to the earthquakes in northern Italy, which really robbed us of time in which to experiment, though this wouldn't have been an issue if previous friendlies had been better utilised to rotate the squad and test out various systems and players.

Criscito's absence, not to mention the absence of two or three other more suitable deputies has truly handicapped our squad, though I personally am quite found of Chiellini as a left back, however he is needed in the centre on most occasions. Ideally I'd have utilised Criscito against the likes of Spain and Chiellini against Germany to deal with Mueller.

Giaccherini is a player I admire for his energy and intelligent movement, however to risk such an experiment as placing him at LWB against the World Champions in our first game is something that would likely take courage that Prandelli frankly lacks, so I shall discuss our options only with reference to Balzaretti and Ogbonna. I believe that our fullback options in a four man backline should be looked at as pairs to provide balance to the squad, such that either Abate and Balzaretti are employed or Maggio and Ogbonna/Chiellini.

I have seen a lot of enthusiasm for the three man backline expressed on the forums and I believe that it is justified to an extent, though I would question its suitability against certain sides. Should we encounter opponents who favour two forwards then it would be an astute concession, though I'm not yet convinced it should be a stock standard formation.

The option of a trident should also be considered, in the manner in which M99 has proposed, one which I would support, however it is probably only going to be implemented as an act of desperation.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:17 pm

If the plan was the play 3-5-2 why did he leave Santon and PDC on the beach lol?

I get 3-5-2 might not have been his number 1 idea but if it was a system he had in the back of his mind to use then he should have took the players that were required to use it.

I posted on another forum but iam going to post it here too as its relevant :coffee:

Italian National Team Thread - Page 7 G1338735468889484081

by juventus101 Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:34 pm

Yea, i think the 352 could still work even though i think PDC should have that left side locked down. Can put Abate there thoigh, as he used to be a LW for Torino. So something like this:

--Buffon--
--Barzagli-- --Bonucci-- --Chiellini--
--Maggio-- --De Rossi-- --Pirlo-- --Marchisio-- --Abate--
--Giovinco-- --Balotelli--

I.thinj this definitely lookz very strong, but the depth atwingback is what is worrying. Viaccherini can play there, but thats pregty much it. So i think overall, we should just follow Juves example and be able to switch effortlessly between that 352 and a 4-man defensive formation, in this case a 4312 instead if a 433. Something like:

--Buffon--
--Maggio-- --Barzagli-- --Chiellini-- --Balzaretti--
--De Rossi-- --Pirlo-- --Marchisio--
--Cassano--
--Di Natale-- -- Balotelli--

by dostoevsky Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:57 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:If the plan was the play 3-5-2 why did he leave Santon and PDC on the beach lol?

I get 3-5-2 might not have been his number 1 idea but if it was a system he had in the back of his mind to use then he should have took the players that were required to use it.

I posted on another forum but iam going to post it here too as its relevant

I love that pic so much. Laughing

Hell, even Pepe might have been useful had he given serious consideration to the 3-5-2, though I personally would not have had him in the squad. Schelotto who he did bring in the provisional squad but dropped might also have proven useful in such an experiment.

If Prandelli wants to be Barcelona we may as well rock Pep's sexy 3-4-3 diamond.

Buffon
Bonucci---Barzagli---Chiellini
De Rossi
Pirlo---Marchisio
Montolivo
Balotelli--Cassano---Giovinco

COME AT US EUROPE.

Italian National Team Thread - Page 7 Tumblr_m1og10Gt961qzl59lo1_250

by McLewis Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:04 pm

Looks like Barzagli picked up a calf injury and will probably miss the group stages. This could be a massive blow for Italy.

by nasir6371 Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:16 pm

Possibly 20 days out for Barzagli... possibly back for the qrt finals if Italy get out of group stage which I expect.

by juventus101 Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:56 pm

Yea, thats a huge blow. Barzagli and Chiellini together are by far the best pair available. I think Bonucci will pretty obviously get the starting spot in Barzaglis place.

by Internal Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:57 pm

Andrea ranocchia to the rescue. Don't give me the "bad season" bs, he played well almost every time for gli azzurri

by Milantildeath Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:56 pm

De Rossi was being tried at CB, I don't know what to think about that

by Luca Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:50 am

Milantildeath wrote:De Rossi was being tried at CB, I don't know what to think about that

I don't know either. It seems like a waste, I would have to see what the rest of the line up looks like before passing judgment but still, I'm not fond of the idea.

Defenders: Cristian Maggio (Napoli), Ignazio Abate (AC Milan), Federico Balzaretti (Palermo), Leonardo Bonucci (Juventus), Andrea Barzagli (Juventus), Giorgio Chiellini (Juventus), Angelo Ogbonna (Torino).

So, really there is only three players for two spots....
Chiellini, Bonucci and Ogbonna.
Ogbonna and Chiellini operate very similarly, too similarly to be a CB pairing, they're both left footed and both prefer to play on the left side- both even play as left backs from time to time.

I don't think Chiellini-Bonucci is very strong at all, in a four man defense.

by McLewis Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:31 am

Totally against DDR as a CB. He was great only once in that position and after that, he looked very much out of his depth and that was only on the domestic front. I don't want to imagine how it's going to go for him with Silva, Iniesta etc coming at him. Not the best idea from Prandelli.

by 7amood11 Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:17 pm

Playing Montolivo as an AM was the worst possible idea Prandelli thought out.

by juventus101 Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:21 pm

I thinm De Rossi could fit in a 3-man defense with Bonucci and Chiellini, even though.id rather have Ogbonna there. But a 352 could definitely work.

--Buffon--
--Ogbonna/DDR-- --Bonucci-- --Chiellini--
--Maggio-- --DDR/Nocerino-- --Pirlo-- --Marchisio-- --Balza/Abate--
--Cassano/Gio-- --Balo/Toto--

by dostoevsky Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:51 pm

I'm with McLewis as concerns De Rossi's use in central defence, it should be a last resort whilst those trained as centrebacks such as Ogbonna remain in the squad.

Does the option still remain to call up another centre back in Barzagli's place given his injury and if so could they be any player from the squad of 30 or those who made the initial cut of 25?

I wouldn't mind calling up Ranocchia, though it is trye that he has had a poor season. He's still a good player, however he has been repeatedly robbed of the opportunity to enjoy a consecutive run of games, given different partners and been shown no signs of faith from his coach. Whether he is capable of bouncing back immediately in the right environment is uncertain to me though and he would remain as significant a risk as Ogbonna or Bonucci in the absence of Barzagli, however his qualities as a centre back more naturally compliment Chiellini.

In the end though, I saw Marco Materazzi stand firm and help to lead us to a World Cup. Past sides have relished and excelled under pressure and even been more formidable with ten than with eleven. Belief and commitment is just as important as talent in tournaments such as these, and whoever is selected needs to reward the faith of the coach with displays of character and fortitude.

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