Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by Cotes on Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:47 am

worst decision Barca will make...
Pep is obviously a wizard...unless this dude knows all of pep's secrets & tactics...he will be like Luis Enrique is to Roma

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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by Cotes on Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:49 am

@sagnik92 wrote:i would have preferred bielsa but i understand that the core group of players would be more comfortable if this style carries on

Is that Pique & Zlatan in ur sig?

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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by The Sanchez on Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:40 am

Good test for him. obviously he won't be able to fill in his shoes but hopefully he does it well enough. I find that this was the msot cheapest and wiser way than employing another coach. He knows the Barca system well and the players! Good luck!
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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by alexjanosik on Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:27 am

@Brady2Moss wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Btw I have to say I am slightly disappointed. Not because I don't think Tito is in every way possible fit for the job, but because I was ready to see something new. The current style is mouth-watering and exquisite, but it has also become a bit stale with time. I congratulate Tito and I hope the best for him, but I think it's safe to assume his style will be very close to Guardiola's.

My thoughts exactly.

Barca's style is excellent, but just watching them play it "safe" most of the time does get a bit boring. I want to see them mix it up a lil bit, depending on which team they face, and not just rely on one style (possession football). For example, against Chelsea, they should have ceded control for a bit thus allowing Chelsea to open up and hit on them the counter...

We are not Chelsea who will park the bus and play hoofball.
We are not Madrid who will park the bus and play hoofball.We are not Inter who will park the bus and play hoofball.We are not Milan who will park the bus and play hoofball.
In short we wont mix it up.
We have a philosophy of football and we have a way of playing and we will stick to it no matter what.
We play the game the only way it should be played,the Johan Cruyff way.

Any clueless idiot who doesnt understand that and wants the team to mix it up can go support any other team.

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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by alexjanosik on Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:30 am

On Tito,tactically I am not worried.I think he had a big hand in the way we played and that evident during matches as well.He could always be seen discussing with Pep.
He brings a calming influence and is very intelligent.
But then being a football coach is not just about tactics.Mourinho is an average tactician at best and yet he is a great manager.
So it will be interesting to see if Tito can get the other aspects right.
It will be interesting to see and I wish him all the best.

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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by Baraa on Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:48 am

@Khaled wrote:Tito will follow Pep's steps...
Beating the hell out of Madrid "Putas" in SpanishSuper Cup would be a great start Twisted Evil (I would like to see Mourinho's reaction in that case) Twisted Evil

Than, he can dominate Liga and UCL Twisted Evil

Tito :dance:

first you have to beat bielsa in the CDR final, remember?

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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by The Franchise on Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:11 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Tito was working with Messi in La Masia, the two of them have known each other ever since Cadete B :bow:

Anyways Dani idk who your comment was referring to. Brady2Moss is in my ignore list, and I suggest everyone adds him there as well, but if it was in reply to my comment then I didn't mean that the style is not effective, only that I would have welcomed variants on it. Bielsa's more vertical approach is something I would have liked to see, for example.

Nah BC, of course not you.

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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by matpol on Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:25 am

I wish him the best, but we will see what happens. He will probably continue to play with Pep's philosophy, but now he is a boss, so some methods will change. Let's see what he will do with transfer budget. Btw, he will be suspended for his 1st official match as a Barca coach if we win Copa del Rey (Supercopa 1st leg vs RM at Camp Nou), as he has 1 match suspension for SdE game. What a story it would be if Tito starts his coaching career with winning Supercopa with a team at Bernabeu.
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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by sagnik92 on Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:58 am

@Cotes wrote:
@sagnik92 wrote:i would have preferred bielsa but i understand that the core group of players would be more comfortable if this style carries on

Is that Pique & Zlatan in ur sig?

pique and puyol

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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by Brady2Moss on Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:35 am

@alexjanosik wrote:
@Brady2Moss wrote:

My thoughts exactly.

Barca's style is excellent, but just watching them play it "safe" most of the time does get a bit boring. I want to see them mix it up a lil bit, depending on which team they face, and not just rely on one style (possession football). For example, against Chelsea, they should have ceded control for a bit thus allowing Chelsea to open up and hit on them the counter...

We are not Chelsea who will park the bus and play hoofball.
We are not Madrid who will park the bus and play hoofball.We are not Inter who will park the bus and play hoofball.We are not Milan who will park the bus and play hoofball.
In short we wont mix it up.
We have a philosophy of football and we have a way of playing and we will stick to it no matter what.
We play the game the only way it should be played,the Johan Cruyff way.

Any clueless idiot who doesnt understand that and wants the team to mix it
up can go support any other team.

Well, I guess this is the reason why Barca have not won any last 8 matches they played against Chelsea in the CL. All have ended either a draw or a win for Chelsea. One style does not fit all, just as one type of "game" will not work on every girl out there.

All I'm saying is; instead of hogging the ball all the darn time, and giving opposition the perfect excuse to sit back and absorb pressure, Barca could at least cede ball possession once in a while and entice the other team to come out of their shell. As Sun Tzu once said:

"According as circumstances are favorable, one should modify one's plans. All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near. Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him." -The Art of War


PS. As for the "clueless idiot" comment, I will not hold that against you, since I have come to realize that I'm dealing with a special needs person...who thinks their opinion is law around here.

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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by Khaled on Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:28 pm

Former Barcelona player Jordi Roura (44), now analyst and scout of first team, could become the assistant of future coach Vilanova. [sport]

More candidates to be assistant Vilanova: Unzue (goalkeeping coach), Altimira (physical coach), Carreras (Sabadell), Lillo (ex-Almeria) [md]

via @barcastuff.

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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by Madvillain on Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:06 pm

Good luck to Tito. It will be hard (probably impossible) for him to achieve what Pep did for us as the boss, but he has lived it all so in a way he is the most experienced person to take the job. The one thing that bugs me little is if he as a person is really suited to be the boss. But we'll find out.

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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by Albiceleste on Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:26 pm

Candidates to be Tito's assistant: Unzue (goalkeeping coach), Altimira (physical coach), Carreras (Sabadell), Lillo (ex-Almeria) according to Mundo Deportivo.

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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by Khaled on Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:02 pm

In his first game with Barcelona's first team, a friendly vs Banyoles on 1 May 1989, Guardiola was at half-time subbed for Vilanova [via as / barcastuff]

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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by Albiceleste on Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:42 pm

Cruyff on Vilanova's appointment:
Despite initially stating that he is not certain if the departure of Pep Guardiola will mark the end a special era, as only in years to come with the results and trophies can the four-year reign be judged, Cruyff gave his vote of approval to Barca’s new manager.

“Barca has a different [football] philosophy to which other coaches refer to,” said Cruyff.

"Coaches are not the most important choice, those are the players, as they are the ones that play, that win and lose. But, the coach does need to see football in the same way [as the players]. Because of this Tito Vilanova, if he wants to try, could be an excellent solution for the bench of FC Barcelona.”

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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by The Sanchez on Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:23 pm

Similar philsophy and hopefully will be great. I feel that his lack of professional coaching that Barca may fail though he has a similar philsophy as Pep and well time will tell and every game will be a boost for him
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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by alexjanosik on Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:51 pm

@Brady2Moss wrote:
@alexjanosik wrote:
@Brady2Moss wrote:

My thoughts exactly.

Barca's style is excellent, but just watching them play it "safe" most of the time does get a bit boring. I want to see them mix it up a lil bit, depending on which team they face, and not just rely on one style (possession football). For example, against Chelsea, they should have ceded control for a bit thus allowing Chelsea to open up and hit on them the counter...

We are not Chelsea who will park the bus and play hoofball.
We are not Madrid who will park the bus and play hoofball.We are not Inter who will park the bus and play hoofball.We are not Milan who will park the bus and play hoofball.
In short we wont mix it up.
We have a philosophy of football and we have a way of playing and we will stick to it no matter what.
We play the game the only way it should be played,the Johan Cruyff way.

Any clueless idiot who doesnt understand that and wants the team to mix it
up can go support any other team.

Well, I guess this is the reason why Barca have not won any last 8 matches they played against Chelsea in the CL. All have ended either a draw or a win for Chelsea. One style does not fit all, just as one type of "game" will not work on every girl out there.

All I'm saying is; instead of hogging the ball all the darn time, and giving opposition the perfect excuse to sit back and absorb pressure, Barca could at least cede ball possession once in a while and entice the other team to come out of their shell. As Sun Tzu once said:

"According as circumstances are favorable, one should modify one's plans. All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near. Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him." -The Art of War


PS. As for the "clueless idiot" comment, I will not hold that against you, since I have come to realize that I'm dealing with a special needs person...who thinks their opinion is law around here.

Yeah.Lets cede control of the ball when our entire philosophy of playing is based on having control of the ball.
Lets take the advice of a clueless fan on an internet forum over the likes of Cruyff,Guardiola etc.
as you just dont seem to understand?(cause you are clueless) we didnt go out because we had complete control of the ball.
We went out because of silly defensive mistakes and atrocious finishing.

Sun Tzu :facepalm:
When a person tries to act smart and quotes Sun Tzu on a football forum you know he is clueless.


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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by danyjr on Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:22 am

alexjanosik I usually like your comments a lot but maybe you should have a think about what Brady2Moss said regarding modifying your method slightly with respect to the style of football your opponent incorporates. Not saying I necessarily agree with all Brady2Moss said but calling him clueless and facepalming an Art of War quote didn't make your comment any better, if not worse.

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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by eelir on Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:15 am

So in a nutshel, it was our philosophy and way f playing that lost us the game, and not the missed opportunities and defensive mistakes (or slow Puyol in one case)????

Is that right Brady2Moss and danyjr?

Well if you think that is right, i completely agree with all what alex sad.
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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by danyjr on Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:26 am

I am no one to question Barcelona's proven philosophy. All I am saying is that you need to modify your philosophy if you see problems with it. What worked for you 4 years ago won't necessarily work for you today. I remember Guardiola saying the reason he changed to 3-4-3 was because Barcelona had become too predictable. That is a modification and is part of a team that wants to be on top for a long time. The style that Barcelona plays now is the not same as Cruijff's 'Dream Team' It has evolved over time.

Poor finishing didn't help Barcelona, but I like to quote Stejo's remarks. For me that is one of the differences between Barcelona of this year and the one that won the sextuple.

@Stejo wrote:...we need some way to draw the defenders apart. That's by providing width that actually feels threatening.

Whenever we tried that in those games, mainly through Alves/Tello/Cuenca, the defense wouldn't take the bait, because there was no real threat to follow up the runs down the sides. The winger would just run all the way down to the byline, hoping to draw a couple defenders out and pass that ball back to the middle just outside the area.

There was no presence inside the area to make the idea of a cross seem dangerous enough to actually force defenders to close down the winger. Not to mention the atrocious quality of the crosses themselves since we don't have a good crosser. All our wingers are mainly inside forwards

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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by The Franchise on Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:59 am

People are out of their minds.

First of all, we aint changing nothing and thankfully the people in charge see that.

Secondly, comparing 09 Barca to this one? Really? We were fresh on the block, teams had no idea how to defend us..of course there was more space. However, your harping back to 09 with Etoo and co..but we struggled just as bad vs Chelsea..in fact, worse.

And finally. This talk about drawing teams out is simply stupid.

If teams want to stay in their final 1/3, they are going to stay. There arent going to be drawn out unless they feel your weakness. And with the quality we have, they arent going to come out.

People continue to wrongly harp on about width, but I dont think people understand what the point of it is. It isnt about putting in crosses.

Centerbacks are 6 feet and above, then there are fullbacks and midfielders dropping in. And your suggestion is, sling crosses in for our 1 new tall forward to fight for a 50-50 ball? Get real.

The reason width is important, is because it draws the fullback out and when the pass is returned back inside the defence has to shuffle to close that space. They cannot move as fast as the ball therefore there is space inside to play a pass. When you starting adding 1-2's, individual skill and such, you can forge openings..or at least, you have a greater chance to.

We played with width vs Chelsea, this wasnt a problem.

Teams arent going to leave themselves open in the middle to stop crosses vs Barca, because the threat of Messi and co is way to great.

Name whoever you like to cross and header, the defence isnt going to change because the threat of the best player in the world is too great.


I dispise these types of discussions, I really do.

Lets change our style, lets knee jerk because we didnt win for this one year. Forget the 15 titles you won, forget all the work you put into it, forget it all..lets change because Messi missed a penalty.
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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:42 am

There's nothing wrong with the philosophy, look how many trophies it has won Barca ffs lol.....

Though i do think at times this season there has been occasions where Barca should/could have been a little bit more direct and/or take a little bit more risk to open up disciplined defences.


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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by danyjr on Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:29 am

To understand what I'm trying to say one must realize the need for width in the first place. Defenders close down on opponents when there is danger. When a Barcelona player gets the ball out wide, he poses no threat unless he cuts inside, which is why teams have learned to close down the middle rather than forcing a defender to close down the player on the wing. 3-4-3 in my opinion came into consideration in order to have more players in the middle when teams clog up the middle, allowing for a extra man to tiki-taka in tight spaces but it didn't solve the problem of width and arguably left the defence in a vulnerable situation as well. Look at how teams defend against Real Madrid (closing down the wings) compared to how they defend against Barcelona (closing down the middle). Teams often play with 10 people behind the ball against these two teams but in very different ways (watch Valencia against Madrid in Bernabéu. or watch the Greece team of Euro 2004, a defensive masterclass by the way)

Also the point of crossing is not just the consequent header because high crosses are very random and not very efficient at directly producing goals in the first place (there was a statistical article by Paul Gardner in World Soccer January 2011 issue on this, I can scan it if you want). What is important is that it is an alarm and will draw a defender or two out of the middle, leaving more space exposed in the 18 yard box. Then you got rebounds as a result of the cross (yes, random I agree) and low crosses (Enrique-esque crosses). This is part of the reason why (contrary to most people on this forum) I defended Cuenca against Levante. You can't deny the fact that it was his moves that awarded Barcelona two important goals. I'm not saying Barcelona should cross all the time, I'm saying vary your style and take your opponent out of their comfort zone by making them guess at least. It gets easier to defend against a team that does the same thing over and over again.

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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by alexjanosik on Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:20 am

@danyjr wrote:I am no one to question Barcelona's proven philosophy. All I am saying is that you need to modify your philosophy if you see problems with it. What worked for you 4 years ago won't necessarily work for you today. I remember Guardiola saying the reason he changed to 3-4-3 was because Barcelona had become too predictable. That is a modification and is part of a team that wants to be on top for a long time. The style that Barcelona plays now is the not same as Cruijff's 'Dream Team' It has evolved over time.

Poor finishing didn't help Barcelona, but I like to quote Stejo's remarks. For me that is one of the differences between Barcelona of this year and the one that won the sextuple.

@Stejo wrote:...we need some way to draw the defenders apart. That's by providing width that actually feels threatening.

Whenever we tried that in those games, mainly through Alves/Tello/Cuenca, the defense wouldn't take the bait, because there was no real threat to follow up the runs down the sides. The winger would just run all the way down to the byline, hoping to draw a couple defenders out and pass that ball back to the middle just outside the area.

There was no presence inside the area to make the idea of a cross seem dangerous enough to actually force defenders to close down the winger. Not to mention the atrocious quality of the crosses themselves since we don't have a good crosser. All our wingers are mainly inside forwards

Why should we modify or mix it up when there is no problem with it?
And you are wrong,the style we played this season,the 3-4-3 is the same as Cruyff's Dream Team.
You keep mentioning about the need to go wide and swing crosses in as if its going to magically open up parked buses.
fact is,over the past 4 years we have grown significantly better at playing parked defenses as proven by the games against Milan,Madrid,Chelsea etc.
We created loads of chances whereas previously we struggled to create any.
So no thank you.We wont mix it up.We will continue to play the way we play.

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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by Brady2Moss on Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:59 pm

@danyjr wrote: I'm not saying Barcelona should cross all the time, I'm saying vary your style and take your opponent out of their comfort zone by making them guess at least. It gets easier to defend against a team that does the same thing over and over again.

This.

An opponent that's predictable makes for an easy target. It's much easier to formulate a winning counter strategy against a team, if you know full well their game plan beforehand. Against Barca, all you gotta do is:

- force Messi deep into midfield by limiting him space in the third part of the pitch(as Chelsea 09 and Inter 10 successfully did). Messi is shown to be pretty useless in midfield as shown by the 2010 World cup campaign..

-defend deep with 10 men behind the ball, and heavily solidify the middle.

-counter-attack with quick, precise passes against a slow midfield and defense, and you are most likely to score (Valdes is piss poor).

-disrupt Barca's flow by making silly tackles.

Believe me, ultra defensive teams will keep doing this year after year against Barca, just hope for Barca's sake they stop relying on Messi for both goals and creativity. How exactly will Barca cope when Messi gets injured for more than a month?

For the record, I believe Barca were "lucky" this year meeting a heavily weakened Chelsea squad, otherwise, it would have been '09 again, where Barca had a single shot on goal the whole 90 mins. It's such a pity they couldn't capitalize on Chelsea's weakness...


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Re: Francesc 'Tito' Vilanova: The Disciple

Post by The Franchise on Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:46 pm

There really no arguing with some people.

If you dont want to listen to our opinions, thats nice, but I will point to the titles we won..for that, you have no comeback.
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