Breaking: Liverpool sack Brendan Rodgers

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Post by Helmer Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:37 pm

ExtremistEnigma wrote:In short: Rodgers saved Suarez's career last season.
Cetainly, Rodgers tactics brought the best out of Suarez. No doubt Rodgers is still learning, specially when there is pressure now to win every game.

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Post by Curtinho Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:49 pm

Pretty interesting read:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/27/luis-suarez-brendan-rodgers-liverpool

Luis Suárez: ‘Brendan said I would like the way we were going to play’

There was a moment during the first real, in-depth conversation that I had with Brendan Rodgers when I looked at him and it hit me: “He’s right.” We had been talking for a little while, he was explaining the way that he wanted the team to play, and everything was falling into place. Everything he said made perfect sense. I was completely convinced.

When Kenny [Dalglish, the former Liverpool manager] left, the rumours about who would replace him started. That can be unsettling for a player because you don’t always know any more about what’s going on than anyone else does: you’re not so different from the fans, reading about it in the papers. Soon Brendan Rodgers emerged as the favourite. He wasn’t a “big-name” manager and I didn’t know much about him, but Swansea City were a team that stood out because of their attractive style of play; they were different and especially impressive for a team that had only been promoted to the Premier League the season before. One of our last games of the 2011-12 season had been away at Swansea.

I’d bumped into Brendan in a corridor afterwards and he said in Spanish: “You’re an excellent player, congratulations.” I remember thinking: “That’s interesting, the Swansea manager speaks Spanish.”

The first chat I had with him was at Melwood [Liverpool’s training ground], just after he was confirmed as Liverpool’s new manager. It wasn’t a long conversation, just the typical welcome to the club stuff, but he also wanted to talk to me because there had been suggestions there was a chance of me going to Juventus. Brendan spoke to me in Spanish and he told me to give him time, to give him a chance, and that I would like the way we were going to play. It would suit me. He said we would bring the ball out on the floor, keep possession and play attacking football. I remember him saying: “It’s not so hard to bring the ball out from the back on the floor, you know.”

I started to see that things were going to be different. In a nutshell, his philosophy was this: you’ve got four players in the defensive line and you’ve got the goalkeeper, who at the time was Pepe Reina, who is good with the ball at his feet. You’ve got the two central defenders outside the area and you’ve got one of the central midfielders who can come for the ball. And if he’s marked, the other one can come for it. If you have 30 metres from your goalkeeper to the midfield, if the players are good with the ball at their feet, at most the opposition are going to pressure you with two men.

No one else is going to come. If you can pass it well, if your positioning is good, it is impossible for them to take the ball off you. Why? Because you outnumber them and you will always have a line of pass open which allows you to progress up the pitch. A midfielder drops into the space which the central defenders open out, the goalkeeper becomes an “outfield” player and you carry the ball forward that way. I listened and I was sold. It seemed so simple that way but no one had ever walked me through it like that before. I thought: “He’s right, it is impossible in a 30-metre space, with the players Liverpool have got, with the ability that Pepe Reina has with the ball at his feet, for them to get the ball off us.” Unless we made a simple mistake, of course.

Over the first few weeks, that idea was the basis of the work we did with Brendan, the first of the building blocks in constructing a new approach. From the start, it convinced me. It made sense. And although the results weren’t good, I could see that we were playing better. I was excited. Brendan’s philosophy was to play on the floor, keep possession of the ball and, if we lost it, to pressure to get it back. Don’t panic, don’t play so fast as we had the previous season, look for the spaces at the right time.

If I was excited, others were worried. And no, not because of the famous envelopes that appeared during a TV documentary about the club. Mostly, we just joked about that particular episode, but the manager’s methods really worked for us.

For those who didn’t see the documentary, Brendan had got the entire squad together during pre-season soon after he had taken over and showed us three envelopes. He told us that inside each envelope was a piece of paper on which he had written the name of someone who would let the team down during the coming season. It was our duty, he said, to make sure that it wasn’t our name in there. At the end of the year, he would open the envelopes and reveal the names inside. I hadn’t seen a manager do that before and of course afterwards lots of the players were talking about it.

There was a group of us sitting there, and Glen Johnson came over and said: “I know who’s in the envelopes. I know what’s written on all three pieces of paper.” Who? What?

‘“Number 3” . . . “José” . . . and “Enrique”. We fell about. José Enrique protested: “No, no, no, no, inglés – I’m not there, you are!”

We never did find out what was written in those envelopes. It was unusual and I must admit that for a moment I did think: “How can you think before the season has even started that there are three people who are going to let you down? And if there is a name in there and he plays well, and you doubted him, what are you going to do then?’’ I’m sure there were no names, it was just a way of motivating us; a tactic to make sure we gave everything. And in truth it got forgotten pretty quickly.

I was much more interested in the way we were going to play. Others were interested for different reasons. It can be frightening to play like that; it takes nerve. Some centre-backs prefer not to have the ball that often. They prefer not to risk being caught with it. You could see that sometimes the central defenders felt under pressure and wanted to hit it long, but Brendan kept insisting and, gradually, they got used to it.

Slowly they became more comfortable bringing the ball out. We adapted. Danny Agger and Martin Skrtel improved a lot. Technically, they’re fine and they’ve gained more confidence in their ability. They’ve become better players. Before it might be two passes and then hit it long but Brendan has changed that. For that to work, the goalkeeper has to act like another outfield player and right from the start they began to be coached differently too. Confidence came through repetition.

The new style suited me. Playing in England where all the centre-backs are tall and strong, the long punt up the pitch is no good to me, but a quick ball to release me either side of them works well. Mostly, I need the ball on the floor and Brendan knew that and he also worked with me on the movements I could make to isolate defenders. He was confident that if I could take them on one-on-one, I would be likely to beat them. He was keen to play to my strengths and my style suited his.

He knew that I’m a very instinctive player who plays on intuition. He knew that if he put me in as a static number nine, waiting for the wingers to put crosses in, I’d be no good.

Not no good, in fact, but worse than that – I’m not there. He knew that I’m a mobile striker and that a lot of the time you’ll find me outside the area, looking for space, moving. I won’t be there as a target for two wide men to aim crosses at.

Andy Carroll would be, of course. Every coach has his own taste in players and given the type of game that Andy offered, it was natural that Brendan didn’t include him in his plans.

Andy is tall, strong and good in the air. But I think people were wrong about him: he was also technically very good indeed. He can strike a ball very cleanly with his left foot and with so much power. The power he was able to produce always stood out to me in training sessions. It was a shame that injuries reduced the number of times we could play together in our first season at Liverpool.

Yet for a short, passing game in which you’re looking to release people into space with a lot of pace, he doesn’t fit. He wanted to play for England so it was important for him to get games, which meant looking for a way to move on and eventually he joined West Ham on loan. The coach was honest with him, which is always the best way: if you’re not going to select a player, tell him.

Something similar happened with Charlie Adam. Charlie’s passing was good, but it was suited to a longer passing type of game and Brendan wanted shorter, sharper passing and quicker movement.

That shift in style was symbolised by the arrival of Joe Allen from Swansea. Brendan described Joe as the “Welsh Xavi”; it didn’t quite work that way, and that’s some tag to have, but Joe was especially brilliant the first 10 games or so and I thought he was an excellent signing. Brendan knew him really well from their time at Swansea and Joe’s first few games were fantastic. He was very good with the ball, he fitted the philosophy perfectly and defensively he was exceptional; above all, he understood the movements Brendan wanted straight away, while Stevie [Gerrard] and Jordan Henderson began a process of adapting to his style.

With time, they adapted too. In Jordan’s case, the proof came last season. Jordan had changed so much. To start with, maybe he wanted to do too much at once, but he is intelligent and he learned with Brendan in the first year even if he didn’t play much. You watched him the following season and he was playing the passes when he saw them. He was taking his time, he was calmer, cleverer. He learned to understand the movements of Daniel [Sturridge] and me more too, while the shift to a one-touch game suited him. He also rebelled against the critics; maybe they brought out a part of his character that we didn’t know he had. Brendan changed him; he changed us all.

I remembered Rafa Benítez’s Liverpool, which was a team based on being very defensively strong and looking to break, so I didn’t necessarily see the new Liverpool as the recovery of historic values, but soon people were talking about that. I heard fans talking about “pass and move”, the way the great Liverpool sides of the Seventies and Eighties had played.

From my point of view, there was something in that idea of Joe as the Welsh Xavi. I wouldn’t say that we played like Barcelona because it was impossible to emulate the speed, touch and technique of their passing game at the time. But you could see a Spanish influence in the way that Brendan worked. He was interested in Spain, he had studied there, and what he’d learned there was at the heart of our style of play: passing, pressuring high, quick movement, arriving into the area rather than standing there waiting for it, coming inside from wide positions.

It’s not quite that simple, of course. You always have to adapt to your environment. For example, Barcelona wouldn’t be the same in the English league. In Spain they let you play more. The defenders and the midfielders can play but that’s partly because they’re allowed to play. The opponents will come and pressure in the middle of the pitch, but no higher. In England, they pressure you more aggressively, they’re much more on top of you. Barcelona would have to adapt to that. Equally, if you put Liverpool in the Spanish league they would not be the same. When you see a Spanish team play against an English team, you get a glimpse of that: the Spanish team pressures, sure, but it’s different. The English team runs much more, but they often run less intelligently.

Generally, English teams are less well-ordered. Brendan stood out: his tactical work was exceptional while some opponents seemed to do little in this area.

Brendan quickly showed he was adaptable too. Changes were made depending on the opposition. Sometimes, if they only had one up front he would leave three back rather than four and use the full-back to give width and depth to the attack. He also knows that he has to listen to the player, to know what he is comfortable doing, and he’s exceptional at that.

Liverpool are in very good hands with Brendan Rodgers. The way he coached us during my time there was impressive and I am sure that the methods I enjoyed and found so effective will continue to be employed. Everything Brendan does is built towards perfecting the mechanics of football and making adjustments for the next game or to fulfil a particular objective. Although there weren’t any specific instructions to begin with, I knew that as soon as I got into training on Tuesday all the exercises were conditioned by the game the following weekend. It might be a small exercise where we couldn’t yet see what he was working towards, but it was always building towards the match.

He doesn’t explicitly tell players the plans for the game all week long because that would just wear you down and you’d end up switching off. If you came into training on Tuesday and he was already telling us how the opposition’s left-back was going to play then by the Friday we’d all be going mad. So we worked slowly towards the game and then on the Thursday or the Friday, he might say, “they’re weak here” or “they’re vulnerable in this space”. The instructions became more explicit: “Look, if they step up here, you’re faster than them cutting inside”; “They always hold the line and you can run past them”; or “Watch the left-back – he’s the one who reacts slowly and doesn’t step up, playing you onside. He stands watching and doesn’t respond as quickly as the other defenders.”

Sometimes what we worked towards was even more explicitly focused on the opposition. When we faced Andy Carroll again, Brendan had seen that West Ham played the ball to the full-backs who then lofted diagonal balls looking for him. So in training we had Martin Kelly pretending to be Andy, playing like him. We were working against movements that were designed to mimic the way the opposition play.

Brendan didn’t obsess about telling us about opponents constantly, but through working on certain exercises the message seeped into our minds.

I don't think that this dry spell will last long. Rodgers, in time, will also get this team into shape.
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Post by Red Alert Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:54 am

How exactly? He built the team around Luis. Luis isn't here anymore. The next best player to build team around is Sturridge, an injury prone player…
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Post by McAgger Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:41 am

We'll see. Rodgers' tenure so far has been a mixed bag, but quite a positive mixed bag.

First season was an expectidly mediocre one where we all just wanted to, at least, play good football and show improvements on the pitch especially attacking wise. And hopefully sign some players that were better than the garbage of the '11 summer. The overall squad that he inherited was absolutely shit.

He met all the expectations that season. We started terribly in the first half of the season but results picked up once players got used to his style. Performance was great second half of the season. We scored goals. Suarez's efficiency improved greatly that season. Sterling was promoted and given good minutes. Hendo became a main stay in the team and improved immensely. Skrtel was dropped thankfully. And we signed Sturridge and Coutinho who were both amazing in the 2nf half of the season and we were on our way to a very good place.
--------------------------------------------------------

Expectation for the second season was just to improve on the season before and at least put in a strong challenge for top 4. Even if we didn't make it at the end we all would have been happy about it. We all hoped that we would further sign some quality players and basically take steps forward.

Well some players improved last season under him. Suarez went ape shit absolutely-best-in-the-world mode crazy. Sturridge has his best season to date. Sterling became a man. Hendo took on a bigger role. Gerrard settled into the deep lying role. Flanno was massive. Coutinho continued his great form from last season. We challenged for the title front heavy, relying everything on attack.

What largely disappointed last season were the signings. We basically challenged for the title with the players we had since 12-13. Outside of Mignolet in some games none of the other signings did anything spectacular to help us in our cause. Defense was absolutely 10 million times worst last season than 11-12 or 12-13.

Rodgers did show great tactical variety last season going from 4-2-3-1 to 5-3-2 to 4-3-3 to 4-4-2 diamond. He outwitted a lot of managers (Venga at Anfield, Martinez at Anfield, Moyes, AVB and Pochettino away some notable ones). Granted some games he was outwitted and he was bailed out by SAS and other attackers. And unfortunately some we were just found out, Hull away, Mou at Anfield. Rodgers showed terrible naivety away at Palace that ultimately cost us the title losing that 3-0 lead.

On the whole it was a largely successful season, one which probably came way too early for our fanbase (or super late as we've been waiting for decades), peppered by the great attack. Hope was reignited in all of us. And we placed a pretty flawed team on a pedestal. The squad and team were flawed. The system was flawed. Defense kept getting worse and worse and Rodgers kept deflecting the blame away from the system and on to the individuals and lack of communication and leadership. But because we had SAS it was ok because they bailed us out. And we just hoped that eventually those flaws would get fixed one by one.
------------------------------------------------------

This season, well summer was a disaster. We planned on going into the season with Suarez as our player still but that was dead shot after he bit Chiellini. Whatever the reasons behind selling him, we had PLENTY of time to know and prepare transfer strategy that would fit what we needed given the circumstances.

We were promised (specifically by Rodgers) that getting Champions League meant we would go mainly for quality over quantity. There was making fun of Spurs involved etc. Quality over Quantity.

We knew exactly what our weaknesses were. Defense needed to be rehashed completely. Fullback were needed (Check Moreno and Manquillo). Main culprits Skrtel and Johnson should've been on the first plane out of Liverpool. Mignolet needed strong competition as he showed some worrying weaknesses. We needed a quality CB. This was HUGE. A center back, preferably RCB because we had just spent 16m on Sakho the year before and Agger was LCB who was our best CB, of great quality and leadership. EVERY SINGLE armchair fan laughed at the notion that Lovren was our target for 20m+. First off, the guy is a hardcore LCB even without looking at his quality. We all thought that it was some evil joke at first. Well Lovren went through and we sold Agger who at his worst is a million times better than Lovren could ever be. This was a huge weakness on Rodgers' part because it apparently came to light that he got rid of Agger because of his personal relationship with him. So in essance at CB we brought players worse than we already had. At fullback we improved.

We needed a DM, Lucas was done as a red. Either he was to be actually trusted more to rest the older Gerrard or just sold so we could buy someone who would actually play. Stevie, even older now, is very apparent that he needs to be phased out. Yet he's playing every game. Moving on to CM, we only had Allen and Hendo, we needed a quality addition here going into Europe. Someone of higher quality than Allen and Hendo. What we got was Emre Can, 20 year old kid who wasn't particularly impressive whatsoever in his very first full season as a pro in Germany, but we bought him for potential. Still he definitely has potential and our hope now is that Allen and Hendo improve even further on last season and don't get injured. Then it was the case of buying someone creative to get the burden off of a young Coutinho. Especially since we had sold Suarez, we needed an absolute WC player or someone close to that level. We paid World Class money for a player that in NO world would ever be classified as WC, Lallana. Decent player but FAR away from what we needed. Guy's only creative ability comes from his dribbling. His passing ability for AM is of the poorest quality, exactly on point with the British stereotype. Regardless, we were only able to fill up the midfield with players worse than we already had. So basically quantity over quality.

In attack we had lost Suarez, arguably best player in the world. The idea here was to absolutely buy WC. anything else was a losing battle. Potential alone would be woeful. On top of this we had absolutely no depth in case Sturridge got injured, which we all knew he always would. We targeted some good players (Sanchez) but for whatever reason they didn't come off. We bought Lambert for plan B, yet our plan A wasn't completed yet. Bought 19 yo Origi behind a decent world cup and sent him on loan. Wanted Remy for Sturridge's back up but for whatever reason chickened out and pulled the plug on a 99% done deal. So at this point we still need to replace Suarez and get a back up option in. Enter Fabio and Mario. One doesn't want to leave as much as we want to get rid of him, and the other the manager promises he would never sign. Anyways, any man with two eyes could see Mario was the furthest thing away from a Suarez like replacement. We cheaped out and chose Mario over Falcao for a season. Remy fell through and Borini forced his way in so we gave up on Eto'o and hoped luck would favor us for a year. Well life is a bitch and we have had absolutely no luck.

We spent roughly 130m pounds and none of the signings fit the criteria we were promised. Not only that, we had lost our best player. Whoever is making the signings at our club, whatever committee or if Rodgers is doing it, they let down every single person in the world associated with the club. We got embarrassed in the summer, we got taken to the cleaners by some clubs, we bought players who weren't even ready to play for the reserves let alone the first team. We panic buyed even.

Regardless, we went into the season knowing we were worse than last season. None of us expected the same sort of challenge given the strength of our competition. This year the consensus was that top 4 and if possible one domestic cup win would be considered a success.

So his 3rd season is going on and we are almost a 3rd way done. It has been a total disaster. Defense is worse than ever. Midfield is worse than his first 2 seasons. And attack is worse than ever. Performance is also the worst since Rodgers' first 3 months.

HOWEVER, we are still in reach of our targets. As bad as we've been we are still very much favorites for 3rd or 4th, thankfully. We are still alive in the cup we want to win. Small disaster in CL but we can cope for a season with that.

What hurts is the hope that we had. We had hoped that after 5 steps forward last season we would push on. We clearly haven't done so. We took 6 steps back this season. Our red tinted glasses have cleared up a bit and we have found out that Rodgers is not nearly as perfect as we thought.

But he absolutely DESERVES times. Not just this season. This season, however unsuccessful, is a free ride. Let him get his barrings right and learn from his mistakes. NEXT season he should be given the full year as well. Let us see what he can learn from this and if he will improve. One thing is best that he gets right sooner than later is his transfers. He and his committee have had a terrible record so far.

But if you remember the shit we went through before Rodgers came, then this is like paradise. He's done well after two seasons. Now his job is to push on. Let's hope he saves this season.
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Post by Curtinho Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:26 pm

Red Alert wrote:How exactly? He built the team around Luis. Luis isn't here anymore. The next best player to build team around is Sturridge, an injury prone player…

Did you even read the article? He did anything but build the team around Suarez. He saw Suarez as a good fit to the style of play that he likes his teams to use, but it's like the first two paragraphs where he says that he has a philosophy that he tries to mould his team around. He likes to build up from the back, have the forwards with a lot of movement, not a lot of long balls, and he likes to have possession (attack minded). He likes to be calm in possession and pressure when the opponent has the ball.

It's just about having the coaching time available to him to get the new players to adapt. Even Balotelli has had more movement and effort involved in his short time at Liverpool than any other team I've seen him play for.

Also the next best players to build around would be Sterling and Coutinho, not Sturridge.
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Post by Curtinho Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:09 pm

Don't call me James wrote:We'll see. Rodgers' tenure so far has been a mixed bag, but quite a positive mixed bag.

...


I didn't want to quote the whole post but just add my thoughts to it. Before I do though I want to commend a very nice piece of insight of how you view the team regardless of whether or not we agree on certain aspects.

- I agree that Johnson and Skrtel should have been gone, and someone should have been brought in to compete (read: replace) Mignolet as those three just don't seem to fit in what Rodgers would like to do with this club. Skrtel and Mignolet specifically. Johnson can be quality and he can play the way Rodgers wants, but I can't help but feel after what he's shown the last year or so that he is past his best by a mile.

- Agger 'at his worst' is not better than Lovren. Unfortunately Agger is injury prone and he couldn't work his way back into the team. I would love to still have him here and rather have had Skrtel replaced with an elite centreback, but Lovren is young and just as good if not better than Agger at this point. It's so easy to place the blame on Lovren but he is still learning a new system, fitting in to a new team, and if yesterday was any indication he is starting to get it. He has been very hot and cold, but there are signs of encouragement there. I don't think that Sakho was a Rodgers signing, and I'm not sure that he's going to last to be honest. Though I would like to keep him and I think he has a ton of potential he maybe just doesn't fit into Rodgers' plans and philosophy.

- Lucas and Gerrard being our DM options is definitely a weak spot for the team IMO. Gerrard, while he is incredibly intelligent and has a great passing range as well as leadership just requires too much protection on the back end. When you are looking to play out of the defence generally you're going to end up giving up a bit of steel back there which puts an even bigger onus on the DM to be defensively responsible, and strong. I love Gerrard and always will but he is not that guy, and Lucas has just lost it along with his knees. I think Can could actually develop into a strong option there but I definitely agree that we need to add someone of top class in that spot.

- I actually think the midfield is fine. Between Henderson, Allen and Coutinho I think there is more than enough talent and ability as well as leadership and potential. Maybe one more player added to increase the depth of the position as Hendo is overworked (Can also can fill this spot). Rumours are we were enquiring about the likes of Parejo, Rakitic and Kovacic all of whom would have been fantastic to come in.

- Finally, the Suarez debacle. Ultimately, no matter how much money we had someone that could come close to replicating Suarez's ability just was not there. Either they were not interested in coming to Liverpool or they were just not available for sale. The reality here is that we have to get players who are on the verge of breaking out and groom them into doing so. Rodgers is an excellent man manager, and has improved almost everyone that has become a first team regular -- anyone that he feels he can work with. It's not like our signings were complete rubbish, and the reality is that with extra competitions and how tired our team looked by the end of the season last term we needed the depth. Depth is still important. I think that with players like Balotelli, Origi, Lallana, Markovic and players that were already around in Sturridge, Sterling and Coutinho -- Rodgers was hedging his bets in that he thought he could coax world class ability out of someone. This takes time. It's still very early in the year and he hasn't had much coaching time with them to be honest. I would still like him to buy someone who is already showing WC ability, but that's not just a one way street they have to want to come here.

So finally I say be patient. Rodgers is an astute coach, manager and tactician and I believe that he will turn our poor form around. If you think about it we still sit tied for 5th place only 2 points out of the top 4 and our team has not even begun to play like a well oiled machine -- we haven't meshed yet and Rodgers needs more time to gain familiarity with his players and between them. There are very few players on our team that I think really need to be gone (Mignolet, Lucas, Lambert, Skrtel, Johnson maybe) and Gerrard needs a reduced role, but ultimately this will be taken care of in due time I think.

I am not worried. Whether we fall out of the top 4 this year or not it will not be for long if we do, and Rodgers will be able to turn this team into the machine he has planned. Of that I'm confident.
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Post by mr-r34 Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:09 am

I don't see how we are favs for 3rd or 4th TBH, we've got an equal if not worse chance than both Arsenal and United.

Also disagree on the point made that CP game cost us the tittle, Hendo's Red card did :coffee:
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Post by McAgger Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:56 am

mr-r34 wrote:I don't see how we are favs for 3rd or 4th TBH, we've got an equal if not worse chance than both Arsenal and United.

Also disagree on the point made that CP game cost us the tittle, Hendo's Red card did :coffee:

Cmon man, after the red card there was 4 games still left to play and all in our own hands. In fact we had a 3 point advantage on City as well meaning even if we drew one of the last 4 we'd still win.

I don't care how important Hendo was or wasn't. The fact that the title was still ours to lose still stands.

We beat Norwich, so 3 matches remained. 3 matches where we could afford to draw one of the matches and still win. Jesus, remembering that gives me cancer. What a choke job Sad Against Chelsea we should've gone for the 0-0 because they literally wanted just that, but we wanted to win so the naivety in that game cost us. But still the most City could have got at this point is the same number of points as us. Sure their gd was +9 more on us but in football anything could happen so we should've put pressure on them.

But anyways we went to Palace on the Monday and City were playing Villa (I think) on the Wednesday. Had we won against Palace on Monday, it would have put City under terrible pressure to perform wednesday. They struggled that Villa match as well if I remember correctly. But they were calm because they knew we had only drawn.

This was where even our players knew we lost as some started crying. That was the game. You can keep repeating the Rodgers quote about how he thought he lost the title when Hendo got the red but we all know the choke job was the CHelsea and Palace matches. The naivety in both matches killed us.
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Post by Curtinho Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:26 am

It was dumb luck more than anything. We would have had at least the draw against Chelsea if not for a slip by Gerrard that put pressure on us to commit everything forward leading to the second goal.

The truth of the matter is we lost the title when Gerrard slipped. It wasn't his fault, and it wasn't because of the Henderson red (though he certainly could have made a big difference in the Chelsea game). It was that moment that lost us the title...something so fluky I'm sure if that game were played 100 times nothing similar would happen again. No point in dwelling on it.
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Post by mr-r34 Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:32 am

I'm not using Rodgers quote, I said ti after the city game and i said it after the Chelsea game.

The boys lost it at CP because they knew it was DONE at that point, but we lost it before that.
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Post by McAgger Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:53 am

If this shit continues he will obviously get the sack, but is that really the best thing for us?

He has many flaws. He's very stubborn, prideful, smug and naive. He has talked himself big and thinks he's the second coming of Shanks yet looks like fish out of water at the moment. He's making the same mistakes over and over again and is NOT learning from them which the most worrying part. He keeps deflecting blame from himself yet he is very much to blame for the transfer failures, for the tactical failures, for the team selection failures. He's handling the pressure terribly. He doesn't seem to have the balls to drop senior players (Gerrard, Johnson, Skrtel) who should have been phased out and sold this season respectively. He gets into personal issues with some of our better players and freezes them out of the team to eventually be sold (Agger, Sahin, Sahko, etc). He plays a favoritism system instead of a meritocracy and plays his love birds who should be nowhere near the team ahead of those more deserving. BUT, I repeat is it really the best thing for us to get rid of Rodgers?

I think it's in our best interest that Rodgers succeeds here. He's flawed as a manager but he's still a very good coach. I think he does have a much better tactical understanding of football than probably 90% of the other coaches out there in England and in Europe. NO ONE can deny that he can get some players to improve immensely (Suarez, Sturridge, Sterling, Hendo, Flanno, Coutinho). No once can deny that when he gets his tactics right we are unbeatable (last season, Arsenal, Everton, Spurs, etc). No one can deny that he's gotten us to play the best football we have had since the 80s. No one can deny that he's a likable bloke with good intentions who really cares about the club and understands our traditions and prestige.

He's very YOUNG as a manager. This is his 6th season as a manager and only his 4th as a top flight manager. He's definitely the best British coach out there at the moment. He can really become a force if he keeps improving. That's the KEY, he NEEDS to keep improving. He needs to learn from his mistakes. He's allowed to make mistakes, but he needs to learn from them. He needs to get rid of those bad habits of stubbornness, naivety, pride, and smugness. We are frustrated because he's unwilling to do these at the moment.

Thing is, with our ownership's emphasis on buying youth and potential instead readily made top talent, we NEED a guy like him. A guy who can improve youngsters. We WILL NEVER buy world class players. Guys like Mourinho, Ancelotti or LvG would not be able to succeed with us if ownership ties their hands behind their backs and tells them that we never pay top talents wages and make do with getting youngster with potential.

What other manager can we possibly get that has a good track with youngsters and is proven to be better than Brendan and doesn’t have too many of their own flaws? Klopp? Not available and probably won’t ever be. Rudi Garcia? Not available.

There just aren’t a lot of managers better than him available or that would come here and be able to work in the system that our ownership has implemented here.

Do you guys not remember the constant chopping and changing of managers we went through in the last half decade before Rodgers. How much that left us behind? Every year getting a new manager and than him wasting money to get his own player for it to not work and then re-doing the process again. We had completely turned into a mid table team to the point that Everton were consistently finishing above us.

I’m very afraid that people have already turned against Rodgers (unfortunately myself included) and that will force him out of the club and we will get someone who is even worse. Then that stupid cycle of going through managers will start again and will be left behind for good.

As much as it is frustrating at the moment, I REALLY think and hope Rodgers gets time. This season and next season. We can still salvage this season BUT even if not we can write off this season and still be in a good position.

Next season with players like Origi and Ilori (and even Ibe), who fit Rodgers ultimate style to a tee, coming back  a year older and (hopefully) better and guys like Can, Moreno, Markovic, Sterling, Coutinho, Manquillo, and Flanno another year wiser will already put us in a better position.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, is for the love of god to get rid of players that are holding us back. We are the most self handicapping team in all of Europe. Gerrard, Balotelli, Johnson, Skrtel, Mignolet, Lovren, and Lambert are all massive liabilities to our style of play. We go into every game carrying passengers. WHY HAS IT TAKEN SO LONG TO GET RID OF JOHNSON AND SKRTEL? Also guys like Allen, Borini, Lucas, Kolo and Enrique are simply too average and not good enough. We’ve got probably 4 players who are somewhere near their primes and who are probably good enough to play for us (Sturridge and Hendo definitely and Sakho and Lallana to a lesser extent). We don’t have to buy WC players. We just have to find better players at the next level below that. The Oscars, the Willians, the Fernandinho’s, the Higuains, the Mandzukic’s, the Rakitics, etc. Just for the love of god no more average players. Why can’t we think logically for a second and understand that if we want to improve the WHOLE squad, instead of buying numbers, we can just buy first team players, thus removing some players from the IX and putting them on the bench as depth. Meaning guys that were already good enough to start for you are now on the bench and better players are instead starting for you. So practical and logical, the simplicity hurts.

If this means limiting Rodgers transfer power and hiring a director of football. THEN DO IT. For the love of god get rid of this current transfer committee which has been a massive failure.

I guess my ultimate point is that I want Rodgers to be given more time because we will NOT do better with changing and chopping at the moment and because he deserves more time. And for him and his committee to have no say in the transfers any longer. Get a DoF and if Rodgers isn’t okay with that he can leave.
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Post by Red Alert Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:47 am

Now favourite to get sacked from the PL.
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Post by Art Morte Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:41 am

I would be willing to give Rodgers the full season if:

- If we were trying different tactics instead of sticking to the tried & failed 4-3-3-with-Mario-the-lone-striker.

- If we were trying rotating players when the regular starters don't deliver.

- If it looked like we knew what we were doing with our transfers.

- If it looked like we're taking steps of improvement instead of staying still.


But the answer to all of those topics has been a negative one, and for too long, too. The same tactics, the same players. Failed transfers window after window. I mean, come on, we're struggling to score goals or create chances and £45m worth of our most recent attacking signings - Lallana and Markovic - are not even substituted on, never mind starting.

Given these circumstances, I'm not willing to give Rodgers the full season if our performances don't improve. I'll give him until something like Christmas or New Year to show he can turn this around.
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Post by Fahim89 Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:14 pm

Art Morte wrote:Given these circumstances, I'm not willing to give Rodgers the full season if our performances don't improve. I'll give him until something like Christmas or New Year to show he can turn this around.


For argument sake and bring whom? scratch
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Post by Art Morte Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:26 pm

Fahim89 wrote:
Art Morte wrote:Given these circumstances, I'm not willing to give Rodgers the full season if our performances don't improve. I'll give him until something like Christmas or New Year to show he can turn this around.


For argument sake and bring whom? scratch


Mick McCarthy.
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Post by Fahim89 Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:39 pm

Art Morte wrote:
Fahim89 wrote:
Art Morte wrote:Given these circumstances, I'm not willing to give Rodgers the full season if our performances don't improve. I'll give him until something like Christmas or New Year to show he can turn this around.


For argument sake and bring whom? scratch


Mick McCarthy.


No Lambert!! rofl
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Post by Helmer Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:01 pm

Mick McCarthy, wiki tells me he is not good enough for us. Laughing

this f**** of a manger has told my boy Hendo to be more defensive it seems. There is definitely something wrong with the instructions that Hendo is not playing passes like before.

Rodgers should be sacked only if, even after return of Studge we dont climb up in the table in the next 10 games, by that I mean we should be difinitely at least top 5 or in 6th but behind just by 1 point probably. Anything below than that and few of the points as Art mentione, should be considered as punishable, imo.

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Post by Art Morte Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:20 pm

Not that I think it has any chance of happening, but McCarthy is actually great.

Got Ireland to the 2002 World Cup and were knocked out against Spain in the last-16.

Got Sunderland promoted to the Prem (although was unable to keep them there and got sacked).

Got Wolves promoted to the Prem and kept them there for two seasons. Was sacked during the third and Wolves went into a free fall, not only playing worse after sacking McCarthy and getting relegated, they even got relegated the season after from the Championship to League One.

Took over struggling, relegation-threatened Ipswich Town mid-season in 2012 and kept them comfortably in the Championship, finishing 14th. Last season they finished 9th and are currently 4th in the table.

Seriously, McCarthy is legit. Has plenty of experience from the Premier League and has even managed at a World Cup. Every team he has taken charge of has improved under him.
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Post by McAgger Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:35 pm

lmao if Mick McCarthy every became a Liverpool manager I'm gonna hunt you down Morty, you better believe it.


Dat gif though
Breaking: Liverpool sack Brendan Rodgers - Page 5 Coach-Mick-Mcarthy-Look-at-Camera-Smile
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Post by mr-r34 Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:39 pm

Our next manager, if Rodgers every got Sacked should be Tony Popovic :coffee:
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Post by Helmer Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:02 am

Australia business only in Asia, mate :coffee:
Also, if BR ever gets sacked, we need someone really experienced person of top class, we need to steady our boat by finishing in top 4 for at least 2-3 seasons continuously and then we will see what happens!!!

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Post by mr-r34 Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:05 am

He was at Crystal palace as a coach before hand and is wanted by several small clubs from the BPL as a manager now, he will manage a big club in 10 yrs, you heard it hear first.
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Post by Fahim89 Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:16 am

If it happens that BR gets sacked. . . the only name that comes to mind is Klopp hmm
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Post by Red Alert Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:12 am

"I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool," he told the club's website.
"I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager.
"Thank you so much once more and always remember: You'll never walk alone."
“I know I will return to Liverpool as coach one day, almost certainly. What I don’t know is when, but my wife and children still live there, so I will be back,” he said.

hmm :coffee:
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Post by McAgger Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:24 am

Can't see FSG ever hiring Rafa. I love the man to death but I've moved on, can't dwell on the past. He would be in the top 5 (probably 5th or 4th) in my personal list of ideal managers to take over if we had a vacancy but FSG would never do it, I'm certain of that.

I have no doubt we would be European heavyweights if he came though. Would probably not win the league under him again but most definitely be a monster in Europe over 2 legs.

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Post by McAgger Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:27 am

Fahim89 wrote:If it happens that BR gets sacked. . . the only name that comes to mind is Klopp hmm


Every football clubs and fans dream coach. Will never ever come here sadly (or atleast for the next decade).

Also most other quality managers that we'd ideally want are all employed. At this point it's pointless to replace Rodgers. We would never get someone better. I hope he gets time.
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