Re: Transfer Rumors

by BarrileteCosmico Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:54 am

I don't see it as an either-or deal. We already paid 10M for Neymar, allegedly, which leaves another 30M to be paid, perhaps over 2 years or in 1 lump sum. Either way it shouldn't be the case when Barca can only either sign Neymar or sign a CB. We're definitely going to be financially strong enough to do both.

by The Franchise Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:34 am

Why are people worried about basically another alpha dog playing with Messi? Is this based on Ibra?

Do you remember the times where we had forwards besides Messi who scored goals and did things individually?

Yeah, I do, they were pretty nice..would be nice to have them back.

Not saying Neymar is a sure fire will fit and dominate without a doubt...but if you havent noticed, we arent exactly overflowing with better options.

by BarcaKizz Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:42 am

I think its pretty clear he's our no. 1 target so may as well warm to him. Kid is damn entertaining at least. My only fear is that against tightly packed defences he's not going to be nearly as effective (Alexis II). He's much better than Alexis in the right technical areas though, so theoretically he can be excellent.

I'd be excited about having him even if he s expensive.

One plus is that he's extremely marketable and we'll make a windfall off signing him. So its worth the financial risk because we'll make quite a lot back at least.

by alexjanosik Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:52 am

I am not sure on the Neymar signing.
I think we might be making the same mistake again.
I think once more we are fixating too much on a single player,thereby letting go other great players who might actually be better.
this happened especially in the Fabregas deal.We could have gotten Ozil for a lot cheaper.But we were fixated on the lots lamb and now everyone regrets it.
Similarly we were fixated on Alexis and missed out on other players.We could have got Kun Aguero or my favorite Suarez.
Suarez was cheaper and I have no doubt he would have been a legend for us.But with us,it seems we fix on a player and then we dont think of others.That seems very stupid.

Even now I think there are other players out there we should be concentrating on intead of Neymar.I am talking especially about Gotze.The more I see Gotze the more I am impressed by him.
He is going to be an elite plater in the furture.Technically brilliant ,can beat players,is fast,can pick put a pass and has a very good football brain.
Has all the makings of a great player.He is 10 but for us I am sure he can play across the front line.
I would much rather we buy Gotze than Neymar.While buying Gotze,we could also buy Hummels.Get the both of them and we would be set.
Much safer bet and sensible compared to buying Neymar.

by alexjanosik Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:36 am

danyjr wrote:
Ganso wrote:Why would it be bad?
Simple. Reason for signing a player is the need (tactically) for a certain role.

Don't get me wrong, he is a fantastic player. He can take on players, he can score and he is a blast to watch and will certainly sell many shirts (as Robinho did in his first season in Madrid) but you don't need more than two or three of these players in a team. I see two main problems with a potential signing of Neymar:

1- Messi. He is the key whom unlocks defences and produces magic up front, or drops back when the team need him closer to midfield. In some ways, he has a free-role. Having Neymar on the pitch at the same time as Messi would bring the whole 'driving a Ferrari like a Fiat' argument up. To have Neymar on the wing to play passively, dropping back and pressing is preventing his nature. To have him play in a more free-role, one which he has been enjoying in Brazil and Santos would make him play more comfortably and actively but in return you now have two free-role players hence a tactical suicide.

2- He is not suited to Barcelona's play style. Barcelona's style of play, more than any other team, relies on passing and collective team-play. In criticism of Neymar, he barely has an idea of team work. We all know he can do wonders on the pitch consistently but his games are usually one-man shows. He never looks up to see if there may be someone in a better position than him in the pitch and unlike Barcelona's more compact approach, he likes playing on his own far away from his team mates.

For me Barcelona have urgent issues that they'll need to take care of first before thinking about Hollywood signings. The defence has been a problem in the past couple of years. Losing a legend like Puyol is difficult and finding a replacement for him is even more bothersome. I personally cannot name a defender bar Thiago Silva who'd stand a chance of replacing el capitá.

Last but not least Barcelona should already look to sign a replacement for Xavi. Inevitably he is getting old and it is impossible to actually replace Xavi but to continue this style of football a replacement is needed as the orchestrator and that is not Thiago I'm afraid. I'd go for Wilshere or Ganso personally, and I'd have a think about Banega too. Unfortunately they are injury prone (Ganso for sure)

We dont need Wilshire.We have Thiago who is better.

by danyjr Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:16 am

Has got nothing to do with the alpha dog status. If you read my post, my reason is purely tactical. Eto'o for example was a fantastic team player, prolific goal scorer and very good at link-ups and a perfect fit for Barça.

Comparing Wilshere and Thiago is like comparing Xavi and Iniesta and saying one is better than the other. They are different players. For me Wilshere is more the box-to-box engine while Thiago is a CAM.

by danyjr Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:37 pm

Zubizarreta says Barcelona have not paid any money to Santos but at the same time refuses to deny the club's interest in the Brazilian.

by free_cat Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:11 pm

Ganso as a Xavi replacement. :'D

good joke.

by danyjr Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:29 pm

You obviously haven't watched him play so you're forgiven.

Unless you want a Xavi Jr who simply does not exist. The one thing I'd worry about Ganso would be his stamina, which is another one of Xavi's many strong points but in terms of composure, passing skills and orchestrating the game he's one of the closest youngsters to Xavi right now.

Or maybe you should enlighten us if you have a better suggestion.

by BarrileteCosmico Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:02 pm

Ganso has underperformed for close to a year a now.

Thiago is more like Xavi than Iniesta and better suited to play the CM role than Ganso, who I do see as more of an AM. Definitely agreed we don't need Wilshere. If we were to sign someone for the CM role I'd rather it were Verrati, but honestly it's not needed.

by Valkyrja Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:54 pm

Try Sahin :-s

by free_cat Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:20 pm

danyjr wrote:Has got nothing to do with the alpha dog status. If you read my post, my reason is purely tactical. Eto'o for example was a fantastic team player, prolific goal scorer and very good at link-ups and a perfect fit for Barça.

Comparing Wilshere and Thiago is like comparing Xavi and Iniesta and saying one is better than the other. They are different players. For me Wilshere is more the box-to-box engine while Thiago is a CAM.

I've watched Ganso, do you remember he played vs. us in the Club World Cup? I've also watched some other games of him with Brazil. I'm not going to say he sucks, but he is not Barça standards - and never will be. He is too slow, not only in terms of movement, but also in terms of rythm and execution. There's a reason why he is compared to Riquelme, who sucked big time for us. Also, he is 23, barely a youngster.

Off course I have better proposals: when Xavi retires, get Iniesta doing what Xavi does (he will be less explosive by then) and put Cesc/Thiago in Xavi's role.

IMO Wilshere is a superclass player. One of the best young CM in the world outside Barça. It remains to be seen if he will be as good after the injury, but yesterday he had a good game. Gotze would also be a great signing as Alex says, although I think that for us he would play at Iniesta's role more than forward: I don't think he is enough of a goalscorer to be a forward at Barça.

by BarcaKizz Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:27 pm

Lol about half a dozen better options and the main one staring you in the face... Thiago...

by The Franchise Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:18 pm

Gotze? Not a fan of midfielders in forward positions, cant agree with Alex on that one.

by The Franchise Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:30 pm

Yeah. O saw your post, it dont make sense to me.

Since when did playing on the wing for Barca mean being passive? Was Henry passive? Is Pedro passive?

dropping back and pressing is not part of Neymar's nature? What? He works pretty hard for a player of his kind and he often drops back and presses forward.

Your assumption is he HAS to play a free role, I dont see where you get that from. If he failed before not having a free role, I would get it but there is nothing to suggest either way at this moment.

Point 2 makes even less sense to me, I would rather not go there.

And why do we need Ganso or Whilshere? Can you elaborate on that one?

Replacement for Xavi when he was Thiago already? A CAM? What?

by danyjr Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:20 am

Pedro spends a large portion of time being passive. Not necessarily a bad thing, it just means he would do the work in the background as opposed to being directly involved with it. Neymar won't be fit to play that role though, and you don't sign Neymar to give him rigid tactics to make him run up and down the pitch. It is clear he does best when he has that free role.

Ganso's dip in form is due to his injury-plagued season. Before that he was fantastic and he will get back to his brilliant best.

Just out of interest, how many matches have you watched from Ganso? You may call him anything but not slow. He is a quick passer, slick one-touch player and a brilliant playmaker and more importantly he knows how to keep possession. Are you talking about his mobility when you say slow?

Ganso may be an AM but he is perfectly capable of playing further back as he did in Santos, often receiving the ball from deep and spreading the play from there especially when the team was pressured up the pitch. On the other hand, and while I'm a big fan of Thiago, I'd rather not let him play the Xavi role because this role is about making yourself available to players, receiving difficult passes in tight spaces, which being fair he does to an extent but it would be a risky to play him in that role because he will lose the ball too often when pressured, has a bit of Hollywood in him and sometimes doesn't go for the simple option. He also has the natural tenancy to go forward and play a more attacking role, where he really shines.

I would prefer Wilshere though, and definitely not Götze. Also I would have thought Şahin had a chance back when I watched him in Borussia but it is safe to say the kid got ruined in Mourinho's hands.

23 is not young? What do you call Xavi who is 10 years older than him then?

by The Franchise Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:27 am

Again, since when did being a winger at Barca mean being passive?

I dont get this. First, everyone has pass to Messi syndrome and wont do anything for themselves...now everyone is supposed to be passive and do nothing?

No, I think realistically there is a happy medium.

If Neymar is 1 v 1 with a defender like Pedro, Alexis and Villa often are, he is going to just pass? I somehow dont see it.

As for Thiago, I think the hollywood thing is a bit of a myth. Truth be told, for someone of his age he rarely gives the ball away and he passes effectively and quickly.

by BarcaKizz Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:38 am

No idea what you mean about Thiago. Not gonna bother talking Ganso down because there's no need. Thiago has one thing over him. He's already played the Xavi role... to perfection.

Seriously, don't get those who still say he is wasted playing that deep. He's incredible at keeping the ball and his play is virtually error free so I don't know why u'd be worried about him losing it.... He doesn't, look at his stats. Incredible. Further, he does all this and manages to make a dribble or two forward per game and often get into a goal scoring position. He was born to play for Barca.

Oh and just on forwards, what about Reus? I think he fits better than Mario.

by billy_gr Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:10 am

as far as we are talking forwards, how would you guys feel about Lamela?
There's 0 interest. Just a question from my side

by FCBarça Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:27 am

I like Lamela but I don't see him as a forward

by BarrileteCosmico Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:42 pm

billy_gr wrote:as far as we are talking forwards, how would you guys feel about Lamela?
There's 0 interest. Just a question from my side

He should evolve into an Iniesta-like player, he has all the attributes. But he won't if he keeps being played near the goal. On technique alone he's the best thing to come to Europe from Argentina since Aguero.

by alexjanosik Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:48 am

The Franchise wrote:Gotze? Not a fan of midfielders in forward positions, cant agree with Alex on that one.

Well he is not really a midfielder.He is a 10.And he is an elite talent.Barring any major surprises he will become an elite player.Lately I have been wrong about some young players but Gotze seems as safe a bet as any.
More importantly the point was that we shouldnt make the same mistakes we have done in the recent past.Focus on just one player thereby missing out on other players.
If an elite talent like Gotze is available,then we should go for it.For a talent like him there can always be place in the side.
I believe he can play forward.He certainly has the characteristics.
free,He has scored 4 goals in the Bundesliga this season,so he certainly can score them.Besides he is 20.Can always add more goals to his game.
Also think he can play the Iniesta role.Not sure but would be good to try it.
IMO,if an elite talent like Gotze is available,then we jump.It seems much more sensible to me than Neymar.

Reus is a very good player too,but of the two its Gotze every day for me.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:24 am

Gotze is the closest thing around to Messi IMO in sense of skill sets although his finishing needs a lot of work and he's quite injury prone so far.

Ridiculous talent though.

Reus to me is great player while not as talented as Gotze i think Barca could have more use for a player like him.... he reminds a lot of a young Villa.

I honestly believe Xavi's role will be taken up by Thiago or the system will be reworked for Busquets to become the playmaker of the team.

Neymar i think can work for Barca it's a lot of money but his talent is unquestionable.

Mind you all 3 of these players will cost a kings ransom so it's not really about money it's about who will bring the most to Barca.

Honestly i love Gotze and has already proven he's fantastic in a wide role as well as a usual #10 role but i'm not sure Barca need someone of his type.

A long term Villa replacement makes more sense and Gotze isn't that he's more like some mix of Iniesta and Messi.

Having said all of this i think Gotze can work in a front 3 but signing Neymar or Reus might make more sense because of the style of player they are and what's required.

by BarcaKizz Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:10 am

Good to see some others agree with me. I see Reus working perfectly as a winger for us, whereas I see Gotze more comfortable in the Iniesta role. Can play the wing, but I see him preferring there.

If we are buying a wing-forward and Nerman is our no. 1 target I wouldn't mind Reus as backup option.

by FCBarça Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:13 am

Prying any of Hummels, Mario or Reus away from Dortmund will be next to impossible...Certainly for a couple more years still

The player who would be good bang for the buck and could be bought in all likelihood is Gündoğan

by Donuts Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:40 pm

don't need any midfield / attack except possibly Neymar for the next couple of seasons.

by Sponsored content