Alex Song

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Re: Alex Song

Post by messixaviesta on Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:55 pm

Nice reply kizz. Here are my comments on your points.

1. Good point

2. Masch still plays DM for Argentina. What makes you think Song can play our DM role when Masch can't - just that he is a little better on the ball?

3. Great to know that

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Re: Alex Song

Post by messixaviesta on Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:00 pm

@free_cat wrote:Machete cant play the dm for us JD. He cant get the ball under pressure and move it forward plus he is too short. Song is better in those two things that are crucial for our dms.

Interesting points cat. The point on height I can accept. As for the other point, Masch can get the ball under pressure for sure. What you mean then is he cannot hold on to it and move it forward fast enough. Perhaps this is valid but how much of an improvement is Song in this aspect? Marginal I would say. I would say this is largely offset by Masch's other qualities which I elaborated on but I can also understand and accept that you disagree. If as you say Song can improve a lot tactically I would say Masch if given the chance could have improved to a comparable extent technically.

I would really like to hear opinions from more of my fellow Barca fans on this comparison.

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Re: Alex Song

Post by CBarca on Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:06 pm

I can agree that Machete perhaps use to not have the skill to move it forward and under pressure from a DM position when we bought him, but I certainly think he's improved in that regards by leaps and bounds since we acquired him and I think he wouldn't have so much trouble with that now. I mean, every game Machete plays you can see him take the ball out from a CB position and burst forward and then spray a decent pass (a la Pique), that's something he's learned to do very well. Sure it's not from the DM position, but there is not a whole lot of difference there.

I guess if you are talking comparative to Busquets I can definitely agree with you, but then again, no one really matches Busquets in that regard other than the other midfield maestro's themselves (Xaviesta).

If we are talking being able to bring the ball up out of pressure, I don't see where Song is a huge improvement over Mascherano, honestly.
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Re: Alex Song

Post by messixaviesta on Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:10 pm

This is totally off topic but sometimes I really do think of Yaya Toure. Yes we got good money for him and we are quite fine without him but even then seeing what he is doing for ManCity, it feels almost like a charity act. We sold them the modern day Patrick Vieira who is now one of the five pillars of their team along with Silva, Aguero, Hart and Kompany. They really should thank us once in a while. Smile

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Re: Alex Song

Post by Jonathan28 on Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:46 pm

Everytime I see Yaya have an amazing game for City, which is alot, I :facepalm:

What the hell were our board on when they sold him? The guy is the best at what he does, in any other team bar maybe Barca since Busquets fits us to a tee, I would take him over Busquets. The guy is amazing. Now the people in power now regret selling him for absolute peanuts and buy Song to try and fill the hole he left.

Song is the closet we will ever get to Yaya anyway, hopefully he'll become 80% of the player he was.

:facepalm:

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Re: Alex Song

Post by Sir Psycho on Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:59 pm

Have we truly missed Yaya though?

- Everything we won with him, we've won again without him.

- The only thing I see is a 20 million euro profit.

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Re: Alex Song

Post by gondov on Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:16 pm

Yaya is doing great at City. The reality is if barca had asked for loads more cash at the time, city wouldnt have paid. Its only now that we know his true worth, but at that time he was just a back up to our DM or altern to busquets. He wasnt much of a creative force for us, he didnt need to be. So there was no way of using this aspect of his game as a negotiating part with City

In terms of him staying, It would have been disastrous for his career. For such a gifted player and at his age, rotating with busquets or converting to CB just doesnt seem right to me. I think Pep asked him to stay as well.

His move to city was the best for all parties involved. Thats why its always good not to have players of the same quality and egos in a team. You have to balance it out. People like mascherano, Keita and Song (hopefully) are much more willing to be flexible in their roles in a team and will be more important to the squad than more skilled ones.


I think Song is a better passer than mascherano, he is a bit quicker but his tackling is not as good. At least with song, we wont just get predictable sideways or back passes like the ones keita made. He is much more braver in his passing and who knows, it may be good for us in certain games
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Re: Alex Song

Post by messixaviesta on Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:31 pm

@Jonathan28 wrote:Now the people in power now regret selling him for absolute peanuts and buy Song to try and fill the hole he left.

jonathan, ironically the same thought occurred to me as well that when deciding to buy Song our think tank was perhaps lost in the memories of Yaya. Yaya was sold for a decent price but seeing how some of the absolutely good for nothing players are being sold for princely sums you could probably call that peanuts.



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Re: Alex Song

Post by messixaviesta on Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:33 pm

@Sir Psycho wrote:Have we truly missed Yaya though?

- Everything we won with him, we've won again without him.

- The only thing I see is a 20 million euro profit.

I mentioned that we didn't miss Yaya but at the same time it feels to me like we did ManCity a massive favor.

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Re: Alex Song

Post by messixaviesta on Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:44 pm

@gondov wrote:Yaya is doing great at City. The reality is if barca had asked for loads more cash at the time, city wouldnt have paid. Its only now that we know his true worth, but at that time he was just a back up to our DM or altern to busquets. He wasnt much of a creative force for us, he didnt need to be. So there was no way of using this aspect of his game as a negotiating part with City

In terms of him staying, It would have been disastrous for his career. For such a gifted player and at his age, rotating with busquets or converting to CB just doesnt seem right to me. I think Pep asked him to stay as well.

His move to city was the best for all parties involved. Thats why its always good not to have players of the same quality and egos in a team. You have to balance it out. People like mascherano, Keita and Song (hopefully) are much more willing to be flexible in their roles in a team and will be more important to the squad than more skilled ones.


I think Song is a better passer than mascherano, he is a bit quicker but his tackling is not as good. At least with song, we wont just get predictable sideways or back passes like the ones keita made. He is much more braver in his passing and who knows, it may be good for us in certain games

gondov, nice post.

You are to some extent right about Yaya having risen even higher since then but what we can't ignore is the wages ManCity offered him.

I can agree that one shouldn't keep such a brilliant player on the bench. That's why we have now bought a poor man's Yaya Toure since he is much more worthy of keeping on the bench.

Agreed too many players with great quality can cause problems. That's why Fabregas being there threatens to destabilize our formation and/or midfield in certain ways.

Your points on Song's qualities are quite acceptable. I don't know why I have this nightmare that we end up giving Song a position of great reposnsibility in a UCL knock out tie vs. Arsenal and his mistakes cost us the tie - similar to what happened with Maxwell against Inter Milan.

I'll share an honest truth with you all. Other than what I perceive as the needlessness of the signing and the fact that a CB has not been signed, there is one more reason for me to be so antagonistic towards this signing. I would much prefer if squad players were purchased from smaller clubs whom we had very little chance of facing especially in a key match. A major prize from a big club may be a different matter though. I feel more strongly about this since the Maxwell signing. cat and kizz mentioned Etienee Capoue who would be cheaper. Even for the same price I would have preferred that in spite of the greater experience of bigger matches that Song brings with him. You could say I am once bitten twice shy. Sad Buying so many players from Arsenal is really annoying me. I even tweeted that signing Song feels like purchasing Arsenal's dirty linen and that too after having specially ordered for it. So yes my reasons are not completely logical. There is a strong emotional side as well.



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Re: Alex Song

Post by Mr_Puyol on Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:40 pm

Wtf Song is only 24, I thought he was like 32.He was at
Arsenal for so long. Thumbs up
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Re: Alex Song

Post by DuringTheWar on Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:32 pm

Hey guys, im just wondering, if thiago is still injured, and both xavi and iniesta are injured at some point or in need of rest, will you play:

------busquets
--song--fabregas

i want to see that midfield :bow:

Anyway, my thoughts on this are, he has the tools to do well in your formation as a back up to busquets. Firstly, he is good on the ball, he is only a problem when he has too much attacking responsibility, but years ago when he was a pure DM he was fantastic for arsenal at simply carrying and shielding the ball before simply passing it to one of the creative players to attack. When i say fantastic, i mean very good for a DM's standard. I presume at barrca he wont be allowed to be a box to box midfielder where he starts giving the ball away a lot.
Defensively, he isnt very good when he has to cover space with opponents running at him, he often gets in the wrong position and gives away free kicks as a result. On the other hand he is good at pressing and winning the ball off his opponent, considering barcelona are a pressing team i think he could do well.

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Re: Alex Song

Post by free_cat on Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:56 pm

@messixaviesta wrote:
@free_cat wrote:Machete cant play the dm for us JD. He cant get the ball under pressure and move it forward plus he is too short. Song is better in those two things that are crucial for our dms.

Interesting points cat. The point on height I can accept. As for the other point, Masch can get the ball under pressure for sure. What you mean then is he cannot hold on to it and move it forward fast enough. Perhaps this is valid but how much of an improvement is Song in this aspect? Marginal I would say. I would say this is largely offset by Masch's other qualities which I elaborated on but I can also understand and accept that you disagree. If as you say Song can improve a lot tactically I would say Masch if given the chance could have improved to a comparable extent technically.

I would really like to hear opinions from more of my fellow Barca fans on this comparison.

I don't think a player can really improve much technically when he is over 20ish. On the other hand, you can improve tactically at any age, and IMO Song will do well rapidly tactically. Don't think Mascherano would do any better now at DM than when he signed. It's not a huge improvement, I concede, but I think Song as a CB won't do bad.

On your question about comparing Song to Toure, I definitely rate Toure higher, but yes, they have some similarities, and yes, we shouldn't have sold Toure but Keita.

Btw, is Song's age legit, or there are doubts on his age? Seeing he was born in Douala.

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Re: Alex Song

Post by gondov on Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:10 pm

@free_cat wrote:
@messixaviesta wrote:
@free_cat wrote:Machete cant play the dm for us JD. He cant get the ball under pressure and move it forward plus he is too short. Song is better in those two things that are crucial for our dms.

Interesting points cat. The point on height I can accept. As for the other point, Masch can get the ball under pressure for sure. What you mean then is he cannot hold on to it and move it forward fast enough. Perhaps this is valid but how much of an improvement is Song in this aspect? Marginal I would say. I would say this is largely offset by Masch's other qualities which I elaborated on but I can also understand and accept that you disagree. If as you say Song can improve a lot tactically I would say Masch if given the chance could have improved to a comparable extent technically.

I would really like to hear opinions from more of my fellow Barca fans on this comparison.

I don't think a player can really improve much technically when he is over 20ish. On the other hand, you can improve tactically at any age, and IMO Song will do well rapidly tactically. Don't think Mascherano would do any better now at DM than when he signed. It's not a huge improvement, I concede, but I think Song as a CB won't do bad.

On your question about comparing Song to Toure, I definitely rate Toure higher, but yes, they have some similarities, and yes, we shouldn't have sold Toure but Keita.

Btw, is Song's age legit, or there are doubts on his age? Seeing he was born in Douala.


Yeh thats very hard to tell. He also got married at 17, didnt he? Very Happy
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Re: Alex Song

Post by The Sanchez on Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:00 am


The Cameroonian admitted at his press conference that as soon as he heard Barça was interested in him, he was quick to say yes, and added that he is happy to play either as a defensive midfielder or centre back.
Alexandre Song is clearly thrilled to be here and said that as soon as he heard he had a chance of moving to FC Barcelona “I quickly said yes. I am very happy to be here in Barcelona. It is a big day for me and my family. To be able to play for the best club in the world is a once in a lifetime opportunity.” He was speaking in French at a press conference at which he was joined by vice president Josep Maria Bartomeu and the director of sport Andoni Zubizarreta.

“My two sons are Messi fans”

The Cameroonian has high hopes for his future at Barcelona. “I know Barça have won everything, but I think it’s a team that’s ready to continue winning everything . I’ll try to do the best I can to make sure things carry on that way”, he said. Song also spoke about his admiration for Messi, adding that “I have two sons that are crazy about him. When they play in the garden they pretend to be Messi. He is an amazing talent, he’s the best”.

Whatever position

Asked what position he prefers to play, Song was prudent: “At Arsenal I played in two positions [centre back and defensive midfielder]. I’m ready to play wherever I am needed”. He also added that his intention is not to steal the place of Sergio Busquets, who is “the best in his position” and described himself as very different to former Barça man Touré Yaya.

Fast adaptation

Wherever he plays, Song is hoping to adapt to life at Barça as quickly as possible. “There are many similarities between their style and the one used at Arsenal and I think that’ll help me to adapt quickly. And I also have a good relationship with Cesc”. The two players were together at Arsenal from 2005 through to 2011. “He has told me a lot about the Club” said the Cameroonian.

Bartomeu: “Pure but short negotiations”

Vice president Josep Maria Bartomeu admitted that “it was not easy” to bring Song to Barça. “As happened with Cesc, Arsenal did not want to sell him and were asking a high price, but we are happy with what we paid both for Cesc and Song. The negotiations weren’t easy, but the player wanted to come, and that made things easier. It was tough, but it all went much faster than other negotiations have done”.

Meanwhile, Zubizarreta was full of praise for the Cameroonian. “Song was the first on our list of players. He is skilful and tactical, he is good on the ball and very fit. He has experience of top level competition and knows how to cope with high pressure and big demands”.





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Re: Alex Song

Post by messixaviesta on Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:48 am

@Mr_Puyol wrote:Wtf Song is only 24, I thought he was like 32.He was at
Arsenal for so long. Thumbs up

I was also surprised when I read his age.

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Re: Alex Song

Post by messixaviesta on Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:50 am

@free_cat wrote:
I don't think a player can really improve much technically when he is over 20ish. On the other hand, you can improve tactically at any age, and IMO Song will do well rapidly tactically. Don't think Mascherano would do any better now at DM than when he signed. It's not a huge improvement, I concede, but I think Song as a CB won't do bad.

On your question about comparing Song to Toure, I definitely rate Toure higher, but yes, they have some similarities, and yes, we shouldn't have sold Toure but Keita.

Btw, is Song's age legit, or there are doubts on his age? Seeing he was born in Douala.

cat, fair comments.

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Re: Alex Song

Post by CBarca on Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:20 am

-----busquets
--song--fabregas

No. That's awful. I don't think I even need to explain why.

Buying so many players from Arsenal is really annoying me. I even tweeted that signing Song feels like purchasing Arsenal's dirty linen and that too after having specially ordered for it.

I agree JD, the thing is, buying players from Arsenal has something I kind of have a problem with. How many trophies have Arsenal won in the last 6-7 years? How many times have they been in the advanced stages of the CL or EPL or some large title?

Song and Fabregas haven't been successful on a club level with Arsenal, and perhaps something to think about...are we buying that with them?

Perhaps I'm looking for reasons to dislike the transfers (other than the fact that both Song and Fab are...totally unneeded transfers) but it is something to ponder about.

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Re: Alex Song

Post by messixaviesta on Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:09 pm

CB, our reasons for disliking buying players from Arsenal are quite different but I am pleasantly surprised to learn that I am not the only one here who is specifically against the idea of buying from Arsenal.

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Re: Alex Song

Post by CBarca on Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:35 pm

Well that's not the only reason, it's something I like to ponder about. I wonder if it has any real significance or not. Do you think it does?

But I do dislike buying from Arsenal. My disdain for Arsenal in general might be a part of that though Razz

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Re: Alex Song

Post by messixaviesta on Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:15 pm

CB, I do think it has some significance, albeit abstract. Out here the players we love most are those that are produced at 'La Masia'. Then come those gems who may have been purchased but have fitted in admiringly and are now key starters. After this come those whom you pick from low profile clubs who may have already grown to some extent in a footballing sense but then truly hit big time with you and on the whole feel at least 50% like your cultivation. Much worse than these are players who aren't good enough to start for your team and yet are well known names purchased from other big clubs. They hardly ever feel like your players and every time you see them you tend to think of them as kind of still being from the club where you bought them. I for one think doing this often can lead to a loss of identity. Song's purchase I see as one of this kind. So far we have certainly not done this often but if purchases like that of Song become a habit then I will be genuinely worried. Remember that we are not a buying-selling club like Manchester City. We are 'more than a club'. I can definitely not say this for sure but it's just possible that Cruyff's recent annoyed comments may be borne of similar thoughts.

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Re: Alex Song

Post by Lex on Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:08 pm

@CBarca wrote:How many trophies have Arsenal won in the last 6-7 years? How many times have they been in the advanced stages of the CL or EPL or some large title?
I don't see what that has to do with transfers to be honest. In fact, it has 0 to do with transfers

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Re: Alex Song

Post by The Sanchez on Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:27 am

@Lex wrote:
@CBarca wrote:How many trophies have Arsenal won in the last 6-7 years? How many times have they been in the advanced stages of the CL or EPL or some large title?
I don't see what that has to do with transfers to be honest. In fact, it has 0 to do with transfers

No, its a good point. :coffee:
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Re: Alex Song

Post by CBarca on Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:44 am

@Lex wrote:
@CBarca wrote:How many trophies have Arsenal won in the last 6-7 years? How many times have they been in the advanced stages of the CL or EPL or some large title?
I don't see what that has to do with transfers to be honest. In fact, it has 0 to do with transfers

It has to do with the players that we are buying from Arsenal. And I'm not saying it has any significance or relevance, but I am putting it out there as a question to ponder whether it does have any significance.

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Re: Alex Song

Post by BarcaKizz on Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:47 am

Throwing around a stat like that is misleading... Here is one for you.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4498786/Stars-quit-Arsenal-and-win-44-medals.html

Players who left Arsenal recently... They've won 44 trophies in the time that Arsenal have won 0. So you could also say once Arsenal players are bought they do well. This isn't even including Super Cups etc.

You clearly hate Song. All there is to it. Once a player signs for my team I think positively about it, there's no other way for me. I agree with Free and Mole here.
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Re: Alex Song

Post by The Sanchez on Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:50 am

@BarcaKizz wrote:Throwing around a stat like that is misleading... Here is one for you.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4498786/Stars-quit-Arsenal-and-win-44-medals.html

Players who left Arsenal recently... They've won 44 trophies in the time that Arsenal have won 0. So you could also say once Arsenal players are bought they do well. This isn't even including Super Cups etc.

You clearly hate Song. All there is to it. Once a player signs for my team I think positively about it, there's no other way for me. I agree with Free and Mole here.

Same here. I really didn't want Song though after the transfer I feel there is something special coming for this season and the future... I hope I am right...
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