Re: Gollegacy Myths

by EarlyPrototype Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:54 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:You love living in the past don't you.

Cesc cannot play CM any more he's a different player when we will you realise this?

Just like Modric isn't a AM or Wide AM any more, he's a CM.

Just Messi and Ronaldo are not wingers any more and Mascherano isn't a DM any more.

Players change and adapt to different roles over time and Cesc has not been a CM for a very very long time, long before he joined Barca in fact.

Stop living in the past.

Actually most heat maps show Ronaldo is mostly wide.

Anyway just because you changed position doesn't actually mean you can't play your former position.

by billionmillion Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:06 am

highburied wrote:
billionmillion wrote:Gil is definition of EPLface

Its better than NO DEFINITION...

i forgot to add you too

by Peccadillo Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:21 am

EarlyPrototype wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:You love living in the past don't you.

Cesc cannot play CM any more he's a different player when we will you realise this?

Just like Modric isn't a AM or Wide AM any more, he's a CM.

Just Messi and Ronaldo are not wingers any more and Mascherano isn't a DM any more.

Players change and adapt to different roles over time and Cesc has not been a CM for a very very long time, long before he joined Barca in fact.

Stop living in the past.

Actually most heat maps show Ronaldo is mostly wide.

Anyway just because you changed position doesn't actually mean you can't play your former position.

Exactly.. Those saying Gil is "living in the past" are wrong.

Of course fabregas can play CM Rolling Eyes

He may be stronger as an attacking midfielder but top players can adapt their game. We do forget Fabregas put in some brilliant performances for us while playing alongside Flamini or G Silva screening for him in the more defensive CM role.

He played exceptionally well from deep and was capable of threading through incredible inch perfect through balls from deep positions, not to mention his distribution to wide areas was superb.

You can't seriously suggest because he hasn't played that role for years he has simply forgotten how to play that position. Come on. You have former full backs and strikers who play defensive midfield roles yet you imply that Fabregas can't isnt capable of playing CM? Gil is largely correct in saying this is a myth.

I do agree however that he would not be as effective in this position for Barcelona as he is better suited to a direct style of play.

by Vibe Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:23 am

Greatest myth is when some smart ass comes and says "He tends to disappear in games"... :facepalm:

by chinomaster182 Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:54 am

Has anyone read Cexs comments on how he doesn't want to change his direct style for a more patient, indirect one? Basically he says how that is his style and he would no longer be himself without it.

Considering he grew up in La Masia, i guess he could play the role if he wanted/needed to, the thing is it probably won't happen.

I've been thinking about it alot lately. I obviously don't know what Pep told him (if he even told him anything at all) before coming, but if he promised him a starting position, the whole switch to 3-4-3 was a big vanity project that backfired. I don't know Cesc from his younger Barcelona days, but if he was ever a patient indirect footballer, that obviously changed with his EPL career. It might of made sense if he was going to be considered a "plan b" type of player, like he is in the Spanish national team. But in that case he should have been informed he was going to be warming the bench.

Now Cex is suddenly being benched, he has already complained and goal.com is more than happy to report that back to us. Barcelona should seriously reevaluate their transfer policy.

by Red Alert Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:06 am

I agree with Gil to an extent.

Cesc CAN play as a CM and does a good shift whilst played there. Saying that, he's much more effective playing as the SS or in the "hole".

Disaagree with his Xabi Alonso statements though. Whilst underrated at Liverpool, he's not used right at Madrid. He can't play as both the DM and the playmaker. He NEEDS a defensive midfielder. I'm not a fan of Khedira nor do I believe Modric is the man to partner Xabi.

Saying that, Alonso is much better for Spain in the centre of midfield as it benefits Spain more. Spain lack forwards/finishers. The only reason Cesc was (still is?) playing as the false 9 was because Villa was injured and Torres was out of form for nearly a season in the last campaign. Soldado and Llorente would not fit into the philosophy that Spain has implemented... from Pep imo.

by Zealous Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:27 am

Xabi is used at Madrid just fine thank you very much.

by halamadrid2 Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:38 am

donttreadonred wrote:
halamadrid2 wrote:we played our usual 4-2-3-1 formation with Modric playing AM, no 3 CM bs
I'd been wondering about that. All the reports suggest he was palyed in Ozil's position, but I'm curious if he performed it in the same way. Ozil is your sterotypical #10 attacking midfielder, playing "in the hole" behind the striker. Modric hasn't really played that role in club football for a while now (if ever...). I'm curious if he played as far up the pitch as Ozil, or if he was a bit more withdrawn.

Yep he played the Ozil role, and at times was the one everybody looked to pass to

further into the game he dropped a little deeper to help with possession like Ozil usually does, could have bagged himself at least 3 assists if it wasn't for the sub-par finishing from our strikers

by Highburied Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:11 pm

Zealous wrote:Xabi is used at Madrid just fine thank you very much.

I rate Xabi as high as the next guy but he barely played well against Barcelona.

by halamadrid2 Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:41 pm

lol, the guy was probably our BEST player against Barca what you on??

by Zealous Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:42 pm

He was great in the super cup imo.

by Highburied Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:47 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:lol, the guy was probably our BEST player against Barca what you on??

What game??

Im talking his general performances in recent years.

by Zealous Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:57 pm

Xabi struggled a lot against Barca from 2009-2011. He had a really tough time.

I think that last year and at the super cup his performances have been between OK to great.

by halamadrid2 Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:57 pm

our recent gameS??? i am going to hazard a guess you have not watched them???

Alonso has been great in the last 4 Clasico games, barring the first leg super copa in which nobody played good

One thing is for sure since Lass stopped playing in Clasicos Alonso's performances have improved drastically, having Modric will make him even better

by BarcaKizz Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:29 pm

The Franchise wrote:There are many outragously stupid myths on here, however this isnt one of them.

His movement is horrible, he seems to have lost all clue about connecting play, spacing and where to position yourself in order to give your teammates options. How many times do I have to watch him hide behind opposing midfielders when Busquets or Xavi have the ball and are looking for a forward option?

That list you drew up is a crock of horseshit and you know it.

He dominated Nedved, Zidane and Riquelme? When on earth did he do that? The are offensive midfielders, they were nowhere near him. They rarely crossed paths in the games.

I dont recall the games exactly, but I do remember Riquleme putting on a clinic against only a missed penalty taking the shine off a fantastic performance.

Held his own against Xavi? What?

He wa schooled every single time. Dont make me go Billion on you and bring youtube of him getting span around and left on his ass.

A final point. I dont understand how it can be said he can play midfield, its just Xavi and Iniesta are in front of him so its hard to measure up. For the love of god Thiago and even Keita understand how to play in it, Cesc has no excuses whatsoever.

Everyone take note of this post.

What Cesc is, is a great player. However, its been exposed that he isn't a great CM.

Like Mole has said, the best way for him to play in a midfield is being protected by 2 players behind him, that way he gets to play his free role.

Great passing videos don't prove he is a great CM. Like Dani has already explained, his positional awareness is poor in midfield. Its bloody excellent in the final third, but in the build up he is lost completely.

I think he can adapt personally, and I think Barca can adapt to him, but currently he has plenty of work to do.

He's not horrid in midfield because he's a good player, but the simple fact is that at Barca, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets and Thiago are all better mids.

by Highburied Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:38 pm

Lack of knowledge in this forum is embarrassing. :facepalm:

by BarcaKizz Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:46 pm

highburied wrote:Lack of knowledge in this forum is embarrassing.

If that is a reference to my post I'd like to understand why... Have you been watching any Barcelona games?

I'm talking about playing CM at Barca, and if you'd kindly watch a game maybe you would figure out what Barca fans are talking about.

If you're talking about other posts then fair enough... this thread is filled with absolute idiocy.

by Peccadillo Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:20 am

BarcaKizz wrote:
The Franchise wrote:There are many outragously stupid myths on here, however this isnt one of them.

His movement is horrible, he seems to have lost all clue about connecting play, spacing and where to position yourself in order to give your teammates options. How many times do I have to watch him hide behind opposing midfielders when Busquets or Xavi have the ball and are looking for a forward option?

That list you drew up is a crock of horseshit and you know it.

He dominated Nedved, Zidane and Riquelme? When on earth did he do that? The are offensive midfielders, they were nowhere near him. They rarely crossed paths in the games.

I dont recall the games exactly, but I do remember Riquleme putting on a clinic against only a missed penalty taking the shine off a fantastic performance.

Held his own against Xavi? What?

He wa schooled every single time. Dont make me go Billion on you and bring youtube of him getting span around and left on his ass.

A final point. I dont understand how it can be said he can play midfield, its just Xavi and Iniesta are in front of him so its hard to measure up. For the love of god Thiago and even Keita understand how to play in it, Cesc has no excuses whatsoever.

Everyone take note of this post.

What Cesc is, is a great player. However, its been exposed that he isn't a great CM.

Like Mole has said, the best way for him to play in a midfield is being protected by 2 players behind him, that way he gets to play his free role.

Great passing videos don't prove he is a great CM. Like Dani has already explained, his positional awareness is poor in midfield. Its bloody excellent in the final third, but in the build up he is lost completely.

I think he can adapt personally, and I think Barca can adapt to him, but currently he has plenty of work to do.

He's not horrid in midfield because he's a good player, but the simple fact is that at Barca, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets and Thiago are all better mids.

Agree, the BEST way is to offer him as much protection as possible to give him that freedom. However he has proven to be effective with a single defensive midfielder alongside him in a 4-4-2 as seen in the years he did so for us alongside G Silva and Flamini respectively.

He's pretty far from "horrid". He is a top centre midfielder but has adapted his game and shown he can be even more effective as a "false 9".

Gils assertion that "It is a myth to suggest cesc cannot play CM" only begs the question for me of whether or not people actually believe this. This thread has confirmed that aspect of his assertion is true. Then we are left with whether or not Cesc CAN play CM. As shown in the YEARS he was a consistently top performer in a top four EPL club in that position, we know that he CAN.

He is a great CM and an outstanding AM. End of story as far as I'm concerned.

by CBarca Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:31 am

Can I pose a question...

IF Fabregas COULD play CM, then wouldn't he have played well as a CM with Barca consistently?

Cause I'm not sure if he's even done it a couple times...or once Laughing

Stop living in the past, if he isn't doing it now, what makes you think he is capable of it now?

He's a great AM/false 9-sure, you can say that, but he hasn't been played as a CM for quite a while now and when he has he's been awful. So I don't really think he has shown he can, otherwise he would have done for Barca, right?

Mole, Dani and Kizz are spot on.

by RedOranje Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:48 am

CBarca wrote:Can I pose a question...

IF Fabregas COULD play CM, then wouldn't he have played well as a CM with Barca consistently?

No, not necessarily. Barca have several players better than him in that position. It doesn't matter if he can or cannot play in that position (and I'm not wading into that debate) in the question you pose, it only matters if he's one of the best two/three at Barca... which, with Xavi, Iniesta, and Busquets around he isn't. A player cannot play consistently well in a position if they do not play consistently in said position. Take another player and put him in that situation... let's use Allen (for shits and giggles); Allen most certainly CAN play CM but would he play consistently there for Barca? And without playing consistently, how could one possibly say he plays consistently well?

by BarrileteCosmico Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:58 am

Iniesta, Thiago and Xavi were all consistently injured, though. There were moments where he could have made the CM spot his own, or at least made himself the primary substitute to Xaviesta. He was not able to, though, and consequently was deployed as a inner forward, false 10, and sometimes we changed to a 3-4-3 just to play him in midfield.

While I see your point about consistency, it's worth noting that other players do perform well in a position they're not used to. Just from Barca alone, Abidal performs well as a CB even though he spent his last few years at LB and Masche performs well at DM for Argentina even though he's played CB as his primary position for two years now. If you have the right skillset, it shouldn't be as difficult as it is for Cesc.

by CBarca Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:34 am

BC put that very well, I don't have much to add.

He had many opportunities to play there throughout the season and he couldn't do it, in the end, when young Thiago was injury free- he was preferred there instead of Fabregas, and Fabregas was limited to his false 9/10/AM role. Obviously Iniesta or Xavi would play CM if available.

And about consistency, something I meant which I probably didn't put well (my apologies) is that what I do mean partially is that even in his appearances in CM- despite how consistent those appearances were, when he did play, he was consistently bad. It's not like when he played there, he played well each time, no- he was generally consistently a bad CM when he has played there.

by kiranr Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:00 am

I remember how Cesc used to play when just joined Arsenal and he was really good as a CM then. But you should all remember that Arsenal and Barcelona play very differently.

Cesc can play CM in a team that plays direct and not possession. He does not know how to move off the ball to create space or receive a pass which is a major requirement at Barcelona. However, i bet he would be a great CM in a team like Milan or Madrid or Juve.

by Peccadillo Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:12 am

^^ Yes. the fact that he hasn't succeeded in the position for Barcelona does not retract from my argument as I stated quite clearly that he may not be effective in that position for Barcelona.

There are many players who would not fit into the Barcelona system. Could Drogba have played as striker for Barcelona in his prime and been successful - quite probably not. By your logic is it then a reasonable conclusion that Drogba 'can't play striker' in this hypothetical?

by The Franchise Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:08 am

Pretty confident Drogba would of done better than Cesc is right now.

by REWB Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:35 am

The Franchise wrote:Pretty confident Drogba would of done better than Cesc is right now.

your trolling init?

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