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Post by futbol_bill on Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:32 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:we arent done bill we will still sign a CF, and discarding gago for granero is a mistake imo

I'm not convinced at all. The additional attacker is Kaka. If last night is any indication at all, The centre MF position is Ozil's and kaka is part of attacking front 3. After listening to Mou this morning, he says he is going with 21 players (not counting Altintop).

Re MF, we have Sahin, Alonso, Khedira, Coentrao, Pepe, Granero for two positions (most of time, with Ozil taking centre spot (attacking) plus Altintop when he returns plus some canteras when required. That's more than enough depth. I still don't see what you think you saw in Gago. The only time I thought anything good of him was the first half year when he came in january and I thought he had potential (if you remember we had a very average MF then). Granero is developing and happy to just get occasional spot duty). The only chance you have is if Gago's latest injury prevents him from being sold, although in interview this morning, Mou said he wouldn't give any of the discarded any playing time (it actually sounds like if any of them are left when team returns from China, they won't get to practice with the club either.)

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:41 pm

if benzema or higuain are out, mourinho only has 1 striker.

i mean, he said himself last night again, he just needed one CF

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Post by futbol_bill on Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:35 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:if benzema or higuain are out, mourinho only has 1 striker.

i mean, he said himself last night again, he just needed one CF

Where did you see or hear that Nick? This is the second time someone in this thread has said this, but I hear the entire interview (in Spanish) and it wasn't from that interview that he said that!! He did say he was content with 21 players plus canteras.

If you think of attackers not strikers or CF, we have 6 (not counting Ozil) for 3 positions. That's enough back-up. If you are worried about who can play CF besides Higgy and Benz, it's a fellow called CR7 that played there for a good portion last night. Plus you have Morata that will in effect be what you call the 3rd striker.

I think from suggested line-ups presented in this forum that most of you have not yet realized the extent of the 4-3-3 that Mou is going with this year. he has a front 3 of almost interchangeable spots (much like Barcelona) and a midfield that has 2 end to end midfielders and a centre very offensive midfielder (CAM). There will be times that he may change this to one more defensive MF and 2 great passers. He talks about Coentrao not used to centre so by that I take it he wants some width from his MFs, but their main role is organization and starting attacks. The width should come from the attackers plus the overlapping of FBs (assuming marcelo can get with the program).
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:43 pm

http://www.as.com/futbol/articulo/mou-pasa-cabeza-pedir-jugador/20110721dasdasftb_8/Tes

look at the question he answered about sahin, khedira etc...

It's CF, because we have forwards in other areas already, and in quantity

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Post by futbol_bill on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:11 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:http://www.as.com/futbol/articulo/mou-pasa-cabeza-pedir-jugador/20110721dasdasftb_8/Tes

look at the question he answered about sahin, khedira etc...

It's CF, because we have forwards in other areas already, and in quantity

Nick, I just saw the article in AS. However I think that's the same interview I was watching and therefore I'm not to sure this isn't another media story!!!

In any event, if there is anything to it, it's either,

1. there still is a possibility of a aguero deal (But not benz leaving).
2. Mou is still hoping Neymar will come (I read somewhere else that although there is an agreement reached (no payment yet), there is no agreement on when he comes; now, in January or for next season. Mou apparently wants him now to join up with team in China!!)
or 3. Adebayor back on table.

Assuming 1. you have an issue with sufficient playing time for Higgy, Benz and Kun.
Assuming 2. Neymar is viewed by Mou as more of a winger than a striker so this doesn't seem to fit with his quoted words??
Assuming 3. ouch -I'd rather use Morata.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:25 pm

another story? i dont think there is matter to stir the pot here, he had an official interview on the club website, and he made clear he was lacking a CF. Nothing new here, he was asked about the midfielders missing, and he said he had the team he wanted, and he wouldnt ask a player in a different area than CF.

Mourinho is very good with words, look at how he talks about the players that are about to leave. He is throwing them out, he doesnt want to call them "descartados", he just says there would be limited opportunity, and they should be looking out for themselves.

There isnt room for Benzema, Kun and higuain in the same team bill. If by some feat of magic we sign him, benzema will become a "descartado", and likely leave, and mou would still have a need for a 3rd CF.

Neymar would be smart to insist on staying with Santos, we all benefit from it. I dont understand why mou insists so much in having him now.


Last edited by St_Nick09_of_Goal on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by futbol_bill on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:29 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:another story? i dont think there is matter to stir the pot here, he had an official interview on the club website, and he made clear he was lacking a CF. Nothing new here, he was asked about the midfielders missing, and he said he had the team he wanted, and he wouldnt ask a player in a different area than CF.

Mourinho is very good with words, look at how he talks about the players that are about to leave. He is throwing them out, he doesnt want to call them "descartados", he just says there would be limited opportunity, and they should be looking out for themselves.

There isnt room for Benzema, Kun and Adebayor in the same team bill. If by some feat of magic we sign him, benzema will become a "descartado", and likely leave, and mou would still have a need for a 3rd CF.

Neymar would be smart to insist on staying with Santos, we all benefit from it. I dont understand why mou insists so much in having him now.


???? so who do you think is the new CF?
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Post by futbol_bill on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:35 pm

I wish I had recorded the interview I heard. I must have missed that last line when discussing the MF, that he said there was time for another CF.

Re Mou's words, in the interview a week ago, he did say it was pretty clear they (discarded) were not part of team. He may not use the word, but his intentions (turning up the pressure to get out) was pretty clear when he gave the deadline of Aug 7th.

I can't see Benz leaving after the confidence he has shown in first 2 games. I find it quite amazing how you can take one look at him and tell if he'sconfident or not.

So if they can't exist with Kun (and it's beginning tolook unlikely re Aguero) and neymar not here until jan or later, who was Mou referring to??
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Post by Guest on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:35 pm

Benzema is pretty intent on succeeding in Madrid. He dismisses every report who tries to say otherwise. Only thing that will cause him to ask for a transfer is if his starting CF spot for the Euro is jeopardized...

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Post by guest7 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:36 pm

It's Agueros last week. So we will know where he will go, after that all that's left is Adebayor.

Adedamnbayor. Sad
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:39 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:

???? so who do you think is the new CF?

oh i meant aguero, benz and higuain... made a typo.

the 3rd CF? i cant help but think that if we wanted adebayor, he would be here already.

so he might be a back up option, mourinho might be waiting to see how the neymar scenario ends up for ex. im sure he has a couple of names he would turn to.

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Post by futbol_bill on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:40 pm

@Nick, re midfield and your reserve back-ups re gago.

Not only ican you be satisfied of the words you said Mou mentioned re team defense plus availability of pepe and varane for MF, it also is the way defense played last two games. They played very high, like Barcelona and then entire team went into instanteous "in their zone" ball recovery, again much like barcelona.
It definitely is not what you feared a few weeks ago of 2 groups (offense only and defense only) in team.
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Post by futbol_bill on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:42 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:
@futbol_bill wrote:

???? so who do you think is the new CF?

oh i meant aguero, benz and higuain... made a typo.

the 3rd CF? i cant help but think that if we wanted adebayor, he would be here already.

so he might be a back up option, mourinho might be waiting to see how the neymar scenario ends up for ex. im sure he has a couple of names he would turn to.

Could it be Morata then?? He will be with club for part of August. Maybe if he impresses enough (plus his play with U19), he still has a chance to be offically on squad??
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Post by futbol_bill on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:43 pm

I don't know about you, but I've quite impressed with Callejon. He's a natural winger, but I can also see him in CF if they need cover beyond Higgy, Benz, CR7.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:43 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:@Nick, re midfield and your reserve back-ups re gago.

Not only ican you be satisfied of the words you said Mou mentioned re team defense plus availability of pepe and varane for MF, it also is the way defense played last two games. They played very high, like Barcelona and then entire team went into instanteous "in their zone" ball recovery, again much like barcelona.
It definitely is not what you feared a few weeks ago of 2 groups (offense only and defense only) in team.

im not always a fan of playing defenders in the midfield because of their ability to distribute the ball upfield and to command the area. if you watch gago, he is pretty good at turning himself into a passing outlet, get available for the pass, has good field vision, and gets things moving. he can also play from very good through balls. passing from deep his key for us, you virtually annihilate a high line if you have great passers from deep, it's hard for the opposing team to press you off the ball.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:46 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:
St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:
@futbol_bill wrote:

???? so who do you think is the new CF?

oh i meant aguero, benz and higuain... made a typo.

the 3rd CF? i cant help but think that if we wanted adebayor, he would be here already.

so he might be a back up option, mourinho might be waiting to see how the neymar scenario ends up for ex. im sure he has a couple of names he would turn to.

Could it be Morata then?? He will be with club for part of August. Maybe if he impresses enough (plus his play with U19), he still has a chance to be offically on squad??

Morata? no i doubt it. Mou said in case in injury he would use a youth player etc.. that's a huge improvement, but he also gave them a mission as opposed to last year.

GET TO ADELANTE. that's a mission, they should focus on that and try to improve.

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Post by futbol_bill on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:48 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:
@futbol_bill wrote:@Nick, re midfield and your reserve back-ups re gago.

Not only ican you be satisfied of the words you said Mou mentioned re team defense plus availability of pepe and varane for MF, it also is the way defense played last two games. They played very high, like Barcelona and then entire team went into instanteous "in their zone" ball recovery, again much like barcelona.
It definitely is not what you feared a few weeks ago of 2 groups (offense only and defense only) in team.

im not always a fan of playing defenders in the midfield because of their ability to distribute the ball upfield and to command the area. if you watch gago, he is pretty good at turning himself into a passing outlet, get available for the pass, has good field vision, and gets things moving. he can also play from very good through balls. passing from deep his key for us, you virtually annihilate a high line if you have great passers from deep, it's hard for the opposing team to press you off the ball.

Oh that Gago!!!! It sounds like you are describing Xabi or Sahin!!!

Forget it Nick, he's as good as gone. You said in the other thread Mou had answered and satisfied you re your questions about MF. Are you still having second thoughts or are you second guessing "the special one"!!!!!
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:51 pm

im just telling you how i feel about players in that area of the field. he isnt as good as Xabi or Sahin now, but that's how he plays. did i say i was satisfied? scratch i sure hoped it works, but i still feel like i would rather have xabi/sahin/gago/khedira, as part of our main rotation.

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Post by futbol_bill on Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:05 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:im just telling you how i feel about players in that area of the field. he isnt as good as Xabi or Sahin now, but that's how he plays. did i say i was satisfied? scratch i sure hoped it works, but i still feel like i would rather have xabi/sahin/gago/khedira, as part of our main rotation.

I believe this is exactly what you said

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:It's funny, Mourinho adressed my concern last night, in his post match interview, saying he wont ask for anybody else. Oh well, as long as it works and that the forwards put a lot more discipline into defending...


I guess addressed your concern doesn't imply you liked it. OK let's leave this then as although Granero is Mou's (and mine) choice as MF reserve, you would have preferred Gago.

I'm still curious about this statement re another CF. You have said it's not Morata and unlikely it's Aguero, I assume not Neymar and you also think it's not Ade. Is there anyone else out there, that would fit the bill. Several months ago you were suggesting Milito. Are you still thinking something like that? What about my earlier queston re Callejon?
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:20 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:

I guess addressed your concern doesn't imply you liked it. OK let's leave this then as although Granero is Mou's (and mine) choice as MF reserve, you would have preferred Gago.

I'm still curious about this statement re another CF. You have said it's not Morata and unlikely it's Aguero, I assume not Neymar and you also think it's not Ade. Is there anyone else out there, that would fit the bill. Several months ago you were suggesting Milito. Are you still thinking something like that? What about my earlier queston re Callejon?

From what i read, Gil has been the one blocking the move, not respecting his word to Kun that he will let him sign for whoever he wants. which explains the little bit of Aguero kinda distancing himself from Ateltico, as in a way he felt betrayed, and at the same time, i dont think we are going to go to the clash with atletico, so atm, City might represent his best chance to go out of spain.

Informations are very scarce about what's going on, but it will take a bit of a "miracle" to see it happen. I did read on EC that Ateltico was resigned to contact Perez by august because it's something Aguero truly wants, but im not putting too much faith behind it.

Thankefully Neymar recognizes he still need time Smile. It's not going to be Morata or Joselu, as like i said, their job is to get to Adelante, that's their mission. I think it's taking a new meaning this season, as it seemed like last year, they were just going about it casually, trying to put the players in display.

It's not going to be callejon, again, mourinho said he wanted a CF, and Callejon isnt a natural 9. which leaves out Adebayor ofc, and potentially some other people mourinho has his sight on, might be milito, might be someone we dont yet know about.

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Post by futbol_bill on Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:30 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:
@futbol_bill wrote:

I guess addressed your concern doesn't imply you liked it. OK let's leave this then as although Granero is Mou's (and mine) choice as MF reserve, you would have preferred Gago.

I'm still curious about this statement re another CF. You have said it's not Morata and unlikely it's Aguero, I assume not Neymar and you also think it's not Ade. Is there anyone else out there, that would fit the bill. Several months ago you were suggesting Milito. Are you still thinking something like that? What about my earlier queston re Callejon?

From what i read, Gil has been the one blocking the move, not respecting his word to Kun that he will let him sign for whoever he wants. which explains the little bit of Aguero kinda distancing himself from Ateltico, as in a way he felt betrayed, and at the same time, i dont think we are going to go to the clash with atletico, so atm, City might represent his best chance to go out of spain.

Informations are very scarce about what's going on, but it will take a bit of a "miracle" to see it happen. I did read on EC that Ateltico was resigned to contact Perez by august because it's something Aguero truly wants, but im not putting too much faith behind it.

Thankefully Neymar recognizes he still need time Smile. It's not going to be Morata or Joselu, as like i said, their job is to get to Adelante, that's their mission. I think it's taking a new meaning this season, as it seemed like last year, they were just going about it casually, trying to put the players in display.

It's not going to be callejon, again, mourinho said he wanted a CF, and Callejon isnt a natural 9. which leaves out Adebayor ofc, and potentially some other people mourinho has his sight on, might be milito, might be someone we dont yet know about.

Then, you are agreeing with my revised predictions early today that we are DONE with the exception of finding a reserve CF (3rd striker if you like) that is essentially on reserve in case Higgy and Benz get injured, is a poacher and a different profile from both Higgy and Benz.

It sounds familar (from about 3 months ago). It may be the plan, but IMO I would go with current squad plus Morata and Joselu on occasions. If there is another season ending injury to Higgy or Benz then go for someone in January.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:37 pm

yh we wont signed anyone one else other than a striker, but then again, if you sign aguero, you pushed benzema out, and you have to sign a cf again...

we can do as you say ofc, im sure it can work. A lot of us were hoping it would be that way.

altho, the fact that mourinho mentioned adebayor is telling me we will go for someone else Razz

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Post by Yuri Yukuv on Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:50 am

So we shud get falcao right?

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Post by futbol_bill on Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:31 pm

Update - Pedro Leon is going back to Getafe. The surprise is it will be on loan. So now the discarted list is down to 4 (Drenthe, Lass, Gago and Canales).


And Neymar / Santos is pushing madrid not to take him until July, 2012. Does anyone know the extent of the deal? It seems obvious we have a committment for him, but at what price and have we paid yet or is there a down payment or do we pay when we get him?

Re another striker. Nick I see the other thread you started and it's obvious there is noone else out there but Ade. As you said yesterday if he was coming, he would have been here by now. names like Raul (no way he would come back - as a player), Van Gol (he's already gone to Malga) are the best anyone seems to come up with. I have a feeling that what Mou meant with that statement is that we still have until Aug 31 for Gil to allow Aguero to come to Real Madrid. Not likely but Mou is likely saying he is happy with the squad of 21 and if for some reason Aguero can come, he would be welcome, but that benz would stay.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:38 pm

the universe is too small for benzema, aguero and higuain to coexist in the same team. Someone would ask out by december.

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Post by futbol_bill on Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:37 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:the universe is too small for benzema, aguero and higuain to coexist in the same team. Someone would ask out by december.

That's probably what we want!! Get the best out of Benz from now to January and Kaka for the year and that way we get a good price for them when they do go.

It's not a very likely scenario, but I suspect that's what that comment from Mou was referring to. Number wise it works. Still a squad of only 22 (Altintop out until January), but it's a log jam for the forwards (attacking positions).
From Mou's perspective (and maybe ours), it's not a bad problem to have. I still link Mou's biggest challenge is keeping everyone involved and playing enough so they stay game fit and feel an important part of team.
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