2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by messixaviesta on Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:27 pm

@The Franchise wrote:Simply because Xavi is still a great player and has alot to give.

I agree, the way we have played, his presence is crucial. However, we saw more and more Thiago, in his own way replacing him because he had many of Xavi's skills (ability to navigate traffic, deep passing and final passes) while bringing some of his own (direct dribbling, defensive skills, athletic ability) so many would have guess the transition between the two could have started.

Now we ruined that it will be more difficult. But for the time being, Xavi still has game and if Martino can get him playing at a high level (perhaps done simply by managing his gametime better) playing within his idea of how we should play then I am good with that.


Sergi Roberto looks like he may provide a midfielder runner and presser, something we sorely lack. He isnt physically what I would like, but he is showing good performances in preseason. Whatever we get out of Cesc will have to do, thats all I will say on him.

I think Xavi will the ball is still fine, he is more than capable. My only issue really is his ability to press, which was greatly reduced...perhaps because of his physical capability, perhaps age, perhaps both. I think that will be answered soon enough though, because last season our pressing structure was awful, often he was covering 2 positions, even 3...I want to assume Martino will solve at the very least the tactical side of our pressing and from there we can see what Xavi is capable of and how Martino will use him.


So wonderfully well written !!!

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by The Franchise on Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:34 pm

Appreciate it as always JD.
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by alexjanosik on Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:26 pm

Looks like its almost certain that we wont be getting a CB.
This just reinforces my opinion that the pressing needs to return in full force.
Thats the only way we can defend effectively with the current players at the back.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by jibers on Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:32 pm

@alexjanosik wrote:Looks like its almost certain that we wont be getting a CB.
This just reinforces my opinion that the pressing needs to return in full force.
Thats the only way we can defend effectively with the current players at the back.

Watched the friendly game vs Thailand and the pressing is back. It didn't seem as structured as it was with Pep in 2010/11 but I'm sure they will improve on that. Hopefully Tata actually adapts tactics to his players and try to find some balance instead of trying to make players what they are not.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by danyjr on Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:45 pm

Pressing isn't going to solve your problem on set pieces. Almost half the goals you conceded last season were from set pieces/long crosses which would have been resolved with some aerial presence (50% of Madrid's goals against Barcelona have been on set pieces in the past couple of seasons).

Also, while a lot of Barcelona fans are excited about pressing, it is only a viable tactic if you can do it consistently and manage to hold possession to recover energy. With such a small squad, an old and slow Xavi, Messi's work rate, can you press and play with high intensity so consistently? Even then, if Martino is anything like Bielsa he will drain the life out of your squad and you may feel the consequences later in the season, or in later seasons due to accumulated fatigue/injuries.

This is why I think selling Thiago was a disaster, just when you felt he could rise up and replace Xavi, he is sold to a rival. Awful management right there, and you still can not believe a club like Barcelona would do something retarded like that.

Anyway, I think Martino will make your squad play with intensity. Vilanova had no balls. He did not rotate. He didn't risk. He stuck with the same plan and squad every game. Hopefully he will recover from his disease but hopefully he'll never manage again.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by free_cat on Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:20 am

Messi pressing quite hard during pre season... he gets an overburdened thigh in his third game

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by neuro11 on Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:38 am

@free_cat wrote:Messi pressing quite hard during pre season... he gets an overburdened thigh in his third game
But that makes some people so happy......play 2 games with pressing high and then stay on bench few matches.....if not they even ready to offload him......
Anchelotti recently said Cr needs not to track back....you have to get the best potential from your best player, the way it suits him

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by The Franchise on Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:59 am

Well he didnt press at all and he was out 2 weeks with an actual strain last season.

Doesnt mean anything. He isnt 63, he didnt get injured because he decieded to give some defensive effort.
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by free_cat on Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:16 am

He was actually pressing and giving his all vs. Milan second leg and PSG first leg when he suffered the injury.

Messi has 75% of fast fibres in his muscles, that's why he's so quick but these kind of fibres have less endurance and take more time to recover.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by The Franchise on Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:24 am

He isnt the only one with those muscle fibres.

I cant say with certainty, but I find it hard to believe defensive work in those 2 games or 3-4 45 minutes in preseason caused injury.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by free_cat on Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:29 am

@The Franchise wrote:He isnt the only one with those muscle fibres.

I cant say with certainty, but I find it hard to believe defensive work in those 2 games or 3-4 45 minutes in preseason caused injury.

Overburdening is very common in pre-season as you may know, however, Messi didn't have any overburdening the previous 7 seasons with us.

I don't think anyone at Barça has that much rapid fibres as Messi, probably only Tello... who also suffered an overburdening.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by Harmonica on Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:22 pm

Messi was injured because he played two very tough games in SA and then didn't rest enough. Hopefully he now understands to take a game off after FIFA break if the game isn't too tough. You can't play in mountains in SA were you need extra oxygen to play 90 min, and then fly to Europe and play again in few days.
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by futbol on Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:29 pm

There is no way Messi is so fragile to get injured because he ran a bit more in 3 games. He used to press as much as under Martino in the whole of 10 / 11. I think after his injury last season he's just a bit more cautious. I'm sure he used to play through minor injuries many many times which he won't be doing anymore.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by danyjr on Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:50 pm

Even if the above is true, there are easy ways around it. You just gotta stop playing him 90 minutes every match, that's all.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by CBarca on Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:06 pm

Messi pressed during 08-09, and 09-10. Did he suffer the same types of injuries that season? No. He was working harder then.

Don't tell me Messi has regressed to such a physical state where the effort put into pressing now is overburdening him when it wasn't a couple years ago? Or do you want to tell me that it's his muscle fibers, of which he had the same amount a couple years ago?

If he used to press, he can press again. He's young.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by The Franchise on Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:45 pm

@free_cat wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:He isnt the only one with those muscle fibres.

I cant say with certainty, but I find it hard to believe defensive work in those 2 games or 3-4 45 minutes in preseason caused injury.

Overburdening is very common in pre-season as you may know, however, Messi didn't have any overburdening the previous 7 seasons with us.

I don't think anyone at Barça has that much rapid fibres as Messi, probably only Tello... who also suffered an overburdening.
Yeah, usually people say its because the muscle is not ready for the physical level put upon it.

How about Alba btw? I would imagine he also has a similar kind of muscle fibre make up.

I get what your saying anyway, im not sure there is correlation rather than causation in this case, but if what your saying is the reason, then his physical fragility is shockingly worrying. I think more likely he was just not physically in the correct condition.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by free_cat on Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:54 pm

Messi didn't press in 08-09 or 09-10, don't invent. It was Pep who instructed him to walk around.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by alexjanosik on Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:22 pm

Assuming you are right free(I dont think you are),how do you propose we defend effectively?
You dont want Messi to press.We sure as hell cant defend well in a conventional way with the players we have at the back and those in front in midfield.
So how should we defend?

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by jibers on Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:48 pm

Well Alves has said Tata is using man marking now, so yea...

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by alexjanosik on Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:06 pm

Done really have the players for it.In midfield or in defense.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by jibers on Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:07 pm

@alexjanosik wrote:Done really have the players for it.In midfield or in defense.
Well I think Man marking individuals similar to what Bilbao did to Barcelona in 11/12 season. It coud work if everyone contributes. My problem is what happens if a person gets skinned, it puts the backline and MF under a lot of pressure. I am assuming he knows what he is doing.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by futbol on Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:20 pm

He is not using man marking. lol Adriano (not Alves) said that we're man marking on CORNER kicks now, not in general. Laughing



Man marking in the modern game is suicidal. Which is why I believe that Bielsa is such a scrub coach. In the 11 / 12 CdR final his centerback kept following Messi even when Messi was dropping into his own half which left huge gaps behind. I mean even my grandma could have predicted that Messi and Iniesta will easily beat their markers and play throughballs into the gaps.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by The Franchise on Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:59 pm

Its nice to see Tata is actually paying attention to set peices by switching to man marking.

However, there was a reason we didnt do it in the first place.

Imagine we face Madrid.

Pique on Ramos, Mascherano on Varane, Busquets on Cristiano, Dani Alves on Khedira, Alba on Benzema.

Not any more confident but we'll see.
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by jibers on Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:12 pm

@futbol wrote:He is not using man marking. lol Adriano (not Alves) said that we're man marking on CORNER kicks now, not in general. Laughing



Man marking in the modern game is suicidal. Which is why I believe that Bielsa is such a scrub coach. In the 11 / 12 CdR final his centerback kept following Messi even when Messi was dropping into his own half which left huge gaps behind. I mean even my grandma could have predicted that Messi and Iniesta will easily beat their markers and play throughballs into the gaps.
Yea thought it was adriano, saw it a while ago. Ah that makes more sense then.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by futbol on Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:12 pm

@The Franchise wrote:

Imagine we face Madrid.

Pique on Ramos, Mascherano on Varane, Busquets on Cristiano, Dani Alves on Khedira, Alba on Benzema.

Not any more confident but we'll see.
That's my worry. Laughing

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:36 pm

Its not pure man marking. Only 4 players man mark, the rest is zonal.

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