FC Barcelona - Atletico Madrid | Spanish Supercup Leg 2 | Wed Aug 28th, 2013

The Franchise wrote:Masch long passes vs Malaga? Its one game..lets talk about his 3 seasons?

So he was suddenly good at them? One time only, he wouldn't ever even done them if he was bad at them.

Oh yeah, you cant...you dont know what a real long pass is.

The fact you talk about long passes and a distance of 25m comes into the conversation clearly says it all?

Real long pass? How about giving for me definitive distance for it? Oh yeah, you can't, because it isn't generally defined. And stop with the 25m, it's 25 yards or more, how many of those stats you think is exactly 25m?

Im deluded? Perhaps. But I think more people would say that about you.

Who cares what other people think about?

No, he just made 2-3 good passes vs Malaga..he is a pro footballer, thats not out of the relmes of possibility.

However, over 3 seasons you have a bigger evidence and far too often he overhits them out of play.

He only makes those passes because he can make them? Well yes, obviously...but many players do things they can do, but ultimately dont do well enough for the positives to outweigh the negatives. Its quite common and there are many examples.

how many of those stats you think is exactly 25m? I dont know, but if its one then the stats are thrown off because they are not long passes. How many passes of 25m you think Mascherano makes? 30m? 35? Quite alot I would imagine.

Me define it? No, I have no use for stats, I dont need to define anything. I know what a long pass is...and a pass 25m, 30m, 35m from one centerback to the other, or from centerback to midfield...are not long passes.

You dont care what other people think? Thats great....but then what makes you think I value your opinon of my "delusion"?

2-3 good passes? No he made more than that.

You don't have any evidence against it, only stat there is for long balls (25 yards and more) suggest that he's great at them, which I think every one who observed honestly Masch, would agree.

Somebody who's awful at long balls is Valdes, who over hits them.

The Franchise wrote:You dont care what other people think? Thats great....but then what makes you think I value your opinon of my "delusion"?

Because you quoted and referred it.

Most accurate Spanish league long balls per game (25 yards or more)

10-11 Mascherano 9th (most of any defender)
11-12 Mascherano 4th (most of any defender)
12-13 Mascherano 4th (most of any defender)
13-14 Mascherano 2nd (2nd defender)

Yeah, Mascherano only passes 25m distance's between centerbacks, that's why there is many defenders doing more, oh wait no there isn't. And Pique is far behind. This alone suggest that your leaning to "exact 25m passes between centerbacks", is utter hogwash.

Valdes is a keeper, and when he hits a long pass he makes sure not to fall short, that's why he more often overhits them obviously.

Also, 25 yards it's quite short for a long pass... a yard is less than a meter.

I think the frequency can somewhat be explained by the fact that Barcelona's centrebacks, just like most of their players see the ball much more than any of their La Liga counterparts.

Mascherano has an easy switch to Alves or Pique on the right, and because most teams have their forwards as part of their defensive structure, he's usually allowed to make it.

Pique does a myriad of things, plays it out, looks for the short ball, runs with the ball. His switch to Alba is considerably more difficult and less rewarding, though he will sometimes make it if Iniesta is there instead.

I think he's actually pretty good, but I'm not sure how much the skill itself is worth to Barca. When you lack width, it's not realy going to be a staple of your attack.

Dani you know better than to "debate" with Jiopsi.

No, he didnt make more than that. Maybe he made more than 3 passes which were what YOU (well you dont think for yourself so I should say your stats) think are long passes...but they are not.

The fact your bringing up Valdes says it all really.

Again, put your crap stats away..they dont tell me anything. And comparing him to Pique also makes no sense and continues to show you have no clue.

Pique is attempting passes with a higher degree of difficulty, he is trying to find people in between the lines, guys running onto ball in space, players in smaller spaces...he is the main guy we look to in defence to make the pass forward.

All Mascherano can do is a simple sideways ball (which is often 25 yards or more, which for the 5th time makes your long ball stat completely pointless) or one of his long diagonals (real long passes) which are sometimes hit and sometimes miss.





@CB No debate, I was merely asking him to shut is pie hole, filling the pages full of useless stats with no meaning.

These end like always, you repeating the same nonsense over and over, incapable of arguing of your argument.

And no I'll continue to use statistics, because they can be used to point out delusion and blindness, now three times in a row. It's infinitely more objective than the drivel you write here.

There is no argument here.

This is just common sense, which you for some reason just dont have.

The fact that you can't even see the argument, let alone understand it, tells everything.

Thats great, move along. You have exposed yourself already as frankly, the idiot you are.

Oh joy, that's the to way debate.

Next one up: "There is no debate here."

Do you see a debate? lol

I guess you cant read too well so maybe its not your fault.

MOVE ALONG.

Yeah, when two persons with different perspective try to argue, there is a debate. May not be a good one, when dunderheads like you are involved, but it's still a debate.

How can we debate when you dont know what a long pass is?

Dont you have better things to do with your time on a Saturday afternoon?

I know what long pass is, you don't understand how there is different lengths of long passes though.

Sure, unlike you probably.

Yes, you have things to do and yet you continue with this rubbish "debate"

And no, you clearly dont know what a long pass is. Thats already been established.

What has been established is that you don't know how passes have different lengths.  

And that you don't understand statistics, and don't like it when you're proved wrong. Now I will have you have the last say, just like before, because like you said, I've better things to do.

Right.....

I assume your "better things to do" is actually going to look at more stats which make no sense.

Please go do that.

Come on guys no need to insult. Jiopsi considers ok that every 25 yard pass or longer is considered a long pass whirl you dani think a long pass is a long ball forward. Jiopsi is a stat fundamentalist and it's really tiring to try to make him understand there's more to football than stats though.

Dont get the criticism of Martino by free.
Our defense,going by the evidence of the past 4 games looks much improved.Last season we were conceeding lots of chances even against scrubs.This season we are conceeding very few chances.

On not creating enough chances,again some revisionism going on.
May I remind you that we struggled to create chances against the well organized teams even last season under Tito.We created nothing against the likes of Celtic,Milan,Madrid etc.Even under Pep,we struggled to create chances against park the bus teams.
Or have you forgotten those games against Chelsea,Rubin, Madrid(when they parked the bus) etc.

So lets not criticize 4 games for something Tito failed to do as well.Even Pep failed there.Only difference is unlike under Tito, we are keeping chances against to a minimum.