Has Suarez surpassed Cristiano and Ibra to become the 2nd best player in the world?

Has Suarez surpassed Jesus, our lord and savior?

DuringTheWar wrote:

jibers wrote:This thread

Liverpool fans, got to love them

What are you going to say when suarez plays better than Ronaldo in the world cup?

Suarez given himself a disadvantage not playing in the champions league but everytime Ive see him in an international competition (world cup/ copa America) for the last 4 years >>>>>>> any performance by Ronaldo in any international competition

Ronaldo has been at this level for 8 years. since 05/06 he has been at this level ffs. Suarez needs to be at this level consistently or reach a different level for a few seasons before I can sit here and type he is better. TBH, I would want them for different things, Ronaldo is the greatest counter attacking player I have ever seen and I can't think of any footballer in history that is as effective as him on the break.

Xavi, Messi and Iniesta are the only 3 players that have surpssed Ronaldo in the last 8 years imo. Messi needs no explanation, Xavi as a MF performed at a higher level than Ronaldo has in his whole career, was as consistent and dominated every big game he played in. Iniesta was not as consistent but his highest level again is a lot higher than Ronaldos for me.

jibers wrote:

DuringTheWar wrote:

jibers wrote:This thread

Liverpool fans, got to love them

What are you going to say when suarez plays better than Ronaldo in the world cup?

Suarez given himself a disadvantage not playing in the champions league but everytime Ive see him in an international competition (world cup/ copa America) for the last 4 years >>>>>>> any performance by Ronaldo in any international competition

Ronaldo has been at this level for 8 years. since 05/06 he has been at this level ffs. Suarez needs to be at this level consistently or reach a different level for a few seasons before I can sit here and type he is better. TBH, I would want them for different things, Ronaldo is the greatest counter attacking player I have ever seen and I can't think of any footballer in history that is as effective as him on the break.

Xavi, Messi and Iniesta are the only 3 players that have surpssed Ronaldo in the last 8 years imo. Messi needs no explanation, Xavi as a MF performed at a higher level than Ronaldo has in his whole career, was as consistent and dominated every big game he played in. Iniesta was not as consistent but his highest level again is a lot higher than Ronaldos for me.

Iniesta and Xavi at their best aren't better than Ronaldo. Infact his performance against Sweden is better than anything I've seen from Xavi, Iniesta and Suarez. And to think that he had many games like that for us is scary. There's only one better than him and that's Messi, and at the moment it's debatable, because this season Ronaldo has raised his game even more and Messi started to decline a bit.

Valkyrja wrote:

jibers wrote:

DuringTheWar wrote:

What are you going to say when suarez plays better than Ronaldo in the world cup?

Suarez given himself a disadvantage not playing in the champions league but everytime Ive see him in an international competition (world cup/ copa America) for the last 4 years >>>>>>> any performance by Ronaldo in any international competition

Ronaldo has been at this level for 8 years. since 05/06 he has been at this level ffs. Suarez needs to be at this level consistently or reach a different level for a few seasons before I can sit here and type he is better. TBH, I would want them for different things, Ronaldo is the greatest counter attacking player I have ever seen and I can't think of any footballer in history that is as effective as him on the break.

Xavi, Messi and Iniesta are the only 3 players that have surpssed Ronaldo in the last 8 years imo. Messi needs no explanation, Xavi as a MF performed at a higher level than Ronaldo has in his whole career, was as consistent and dominated every big game he played in. Iniesta was not as consistent but his highest level again is a lot higher than Ronaldos for me.

Iniesta and Xavi at their best aren't better than Ronaldo. Infact his performance against Sweden is better than anything I've seen from Xavi, Iniesta and Suarez. And to think that he had many games like that for us is scary. There's only one better than him and that's Messi, and at the moment it's debatable, because this season Ronaldo has raised his game even more and Messi started to decline a bit.

Sweden? A bunch of scrubs? Are you *bleep* kidding me? Xavi dominated every MF he faced from 08 to 11. Dude get off it. That's my opinion and you won't change it. Ronaldo didn't raise his level this season, he is exactly the same tbh. He hasn't done anything out of the ordinary this season that he did in all his other seasons.

halamadrid2 wrote:gtfo jibs

Sweden are not scrubs. Last time we played Spain, our midfield consisting of Daniel Andersson and Nicklas Alexandersson dominated Spain's sorry arse midfield and we won 2-0

Spoiler:

anyways continue with your debate am outta here

There is nothing to debate. I just think Xavi and Iniestas highest level is above Ronaldos. Suarez hasn't been consistent enough and his best performance is not better so he is not better than Ronaldo.

halamadrid2 wrote:I think Xavi and Iniesta are team players rather than individuals. Together (with Bosquets) they reached a very high level that is seen as milestone for kids but not individually. Messi, Suarez and Ronaldo are individual players you can compare. That's my two cents anyways

Iniesta for me is as good as Zidane at his best. Xavi is the best controller in my lifetime. Let me put it this way, If I was creating a team, I would pick all three before I picked Ronaldo. Xavi dominated Real Madrids mf and set up 2 goals. Individually when he raped you again in the 6-2. He dominated every single mf he was in. Iniesta's highest level has nothing to do with the team. Xavi you could use that argument but not Iniesta. The only other things those 3 you mentioned have in common is goals. Messi is a level above all mentioned, that much is clear. Busquets wasn't in Euroe 08 when Xavi was incredible.

jibers wrote:

halamadrid2 wrote:I think Xavi and Iniesta are team players rather than individuals. Together (with Bosquets) they reached a very high level that is seen as milestone for kids but not individually. Messi, Suarez and Ronaldo are individual players you can compare. That's my two cents anyways

Iniesta for me is as good as Zidane at his best. Xavi is the best controller in my lifetime. Let me put it this way, If I was creating a team, I would pick all three before I picked Ronaldo. Xavi dominated Real Madrids mf and set up 2 goals. Individually when he raped you again in the 6-2. He dominated every single mf he was in. Iniesta's highest level has nothing to do with the team. Xavi you could use that argument but not Iniesta. The only other things those 3 you mentioned have in common is goals. Messi is a level above all mentioned, that much is clear. Busquets wasn't in Euroe 08 when Xavi was incredible.

It may be a matter of opinion but I will also remember Xavi as a part of the incredible midfield he formed with Iniesta and vice-versa, while I will remember Ronaldo as one of the best players ever and the second best of his generation by far. It's hard to compare a forward like Cristiano with midfielders like Iniesta and Xavi. The 2 spanishmen are utility players imo while Ronaldo's the ultimate match winner.

Valkyrja wrote:

jibers wrote:

halamadrid2 wrote:I think Xavi and Iniesta are team players rather than individuals. Together (with Bosquets) they reached a very high level that is seen as milestone for kids but not individually. Messi, Suarez and Ronaldo are individual players you can compare. That's my two cents anyways

Iniesta for me is as good as Zidane at his best. Xavi is the best controller in my lifetime. Let me put it this way, If I was creating a team, I would pick all three before I picked Ronaldo. Xavi dominated Real Madrids mf and set up 2 goals. Individually when he raped you again in the 6-2. He dominated every single mf he was in. Iniesta's highest level has nothing to do with the team. Xavi you could use that argument but not Iniesta. The only other things those 3 you mentioned have in common is goals. Messi is a level above all mentioned, that much is clear. Busquets wasn't in Euroe 08 when Xavi was incredible.

It may be a matter of opinion but I will also remember Xavi as a part of the incredible midfield he formed with Iniesta and vice-versa, while I will remember Ronaldo as one of the best players ever and the second best of his generation by far. It's hard to compare a forward like Cristiano with midfielders like Iniesta and Xavi. The 2 spanishmen are utility players imo while Ronaldo's the ultimate match winner.

Match winner because he is the primary goal scorer. So basically you are saying that he is better because of his role? Again, If I was building a team, Iniesta and Xavi will be far ahead on my list that Cristiano. And no, he isn't THE ULTIMATE match winner. What does that even mean? Iniestas goal against Netherlands is more important than any goal Ronaldo has scored in his whole career so far. That was the ULTIMATE match winning goal if there is even such a thing. Do you think Cristiano is 'better' than Zidane? Please elaborate.

jibers wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:

jibers wrote:

Iniesta for me is as good as Zidane at his best. Xavi is the best controller in my lifetime. Let me put it this way, If I was creating a team, I would pick all three before I picked Ronaldo. Xavi dominated Real Madrids mf and set up 2 goals. Individually when he raped you again in the 6-2. He dominated every single mf he was in. Iniesta's highest level has nothing to do with the team. Xavi you could use that argument but not Iniesta. The only other things those 3 you mentioned have in common is goals. Messi is a level above all mentioned, that much is clear. Busquets wasn't in Euroe 08 when Xavi was incredible.

It may be a matter of opinion but I will also remember Xavi as a part of the incredible midfield he formed with Iniesta and vice-versa, while I will remember Ronaldo as one of the best players ever and the second best of his generation by far. It's hard to compare a forward like Cristiano with midfielders like Iniesta and Xavi. The 2 spanishmen are utility players imo while Ronaldo's the ultimate match winner.

Match winner because he is the primary goal scorer. So basically you are saying that he is better because of his role? Again, If I was building a team, Iniesta and Xavi will be far ahead on my list that Cristiano. And no, he isn't THE ULTIMATE match winner. What does that even mean? Iniestas goal against Netherlands is more important than any goal Ronaldo has scored in his whole career so far. That was the ULTIMATE match winning goal if there is even such a thing. Do you think Cristiano is 'better' than Zidane? Please elaborate.

I think Ronaldo is the 3rd best player in the last 20 years aka since Maradona. IMO he's better than Zidane, Henry, Dinho etc. Let's take a look at his prime for example aka since 2010. He averages 55 goals per season. 55 goals jibers, 55. His productivity, his mentality and all the great skills he's got IMO put him beside R9 and Messi and make him the most complete attacking outlet. The guy can score any type of goal : long shots, solo goals, headers, 1on1, volleys, freekicks.

It's hard to compare him to Zidane since they affect the game differently, but Ronaldo is better at what he does than Zidane at what he used to do. Zidane was better technically, his passing, vision, creativity, ball control and dribbling were superior. These are things Ronaldo cannot compete against, but at he same time the Portuguese plays at an incredible pace. He's a very aggresive player in the way he attacks. His first touch, his finishing, ability to lose his marker, his ability to run into space are incredible. He only needs 1 yard and he'll kill you.

I consider Zidane one of the best midfielders ever, but Ronaldo has been too good in the last years. Like Scolari said, his problem is called Messi. But don't let the unbelievable brilliance of Messi doubt the phenomenon Cristiano is.

Iniesta is not on Zidane's level btw

It's just my opinion

Valkyrja wrote:

jibers wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:

It may be a matter of opinion but I will also remember Xavi as a part of the incredible midfield he formed with Iniesta and vice-versa, while I will remember Ronaldo as one of the best players ever and the second best of his generation by far. It's hard to compare a forward like Cristiano with midfielders like Iniesta and Xavi. The 2 spanishmen are utility players imo while Ronaldo's the ultimate match winner.

Match winner because he is the primary goal scorer. So basically you are saying that he is better because of his role? Again, If I was building a team, Iniesta and Xavi will be far ahead on my list that Cristiano. And no, he isn't THE ULTIMATE match winner. What does that even mean? Iniestas goal against Netherlands is more important than any goal Ronaldo has scored in his whole career so far. That was the ULTIMATE match winning goal if there is even such a thing. Do you think Cristiano is 'better' than Zidane? Please elaborate.

I think Ronaldo is the 3rd best player in the last 20 years aka since Maradona. IMO he's better than Zidane, Henry, Dinho etc. Let's take a look at his prime for example aka since 2010. He averages 55 goals per season. 55 goals jibers, 55. His productivity, his mentality and all the great skills he's got IMO put him beside R9 and Messi and make him the most complete attacking outlet. The guy can score any type of goal : long shots, solo goals, headers, 1on1, volleys, freekicks.

It's hard to compare him to Zidane since they affect the game differently, but Ronaldo is better at what he does than Zidane at what he used to do. Zidane was better technically, his passing, vision, creativity, ball control and dribbling were superior. These are things Ronaldo cannot compete against, but at he same time the Portuguese plays at an incredible pace. He's a very aggresive player in the way he attacks. His first touch, his finishing, ability to lose his marker, his ability to run into space are incredible. He only needs 1 yard and he'll kill you.

I consider Zidane one of the best midfielders ever, but Ronaldo has been too good in the last years. Like Scolari said, his problem is called Messi. But don't let the unbelievable brilliance of Messi doubt the phenomenon Cristiano is.

Iniesta is not on Zidane's level btw

It's just my opinion

Fair enough. Look, In this era of goal scoring Giroud can get 20+ goals. That was an amazing return just under a decade ago. That means either one of 2 things, Giroud is world class or for whatever reason, it is easier to score in todays game than previously. I definatley go for the latter. Ronaldo can score 1000 goals, it means very little to me. The big difference is that Zidane made his team better, Ronaldo is a double edged sword. I have had this discussion before. Messi, until recently made his teams better. Xavi and Iniesta supplement their team. Ronaldo is at the tail end of most moves. Even a clown like Costa can get 36 goals in 1 season. Is he better than van Basten? is he better than prime Scheva? Is he as good as Henry? Stats means very little. Ronaldo can be as 'productive' as he wants, it makes no difference to my view.

Messi is a different case altogether. I have never seen a person combine goal scoring and play-making so ruthlessly. He is in a different league and the closest to Maradona I have ever seen. R9 was clearly better than Ronaldo. His peak level is nowhere near the peak level of Ronaldinho's or Zidanes. I could maybe rate him higher than Henry, maybe. His consistency is great, but again, his peak level is nowhere near the other 2s peaks. Ronaldo simply can't dominate a game like Zidane and R9 did, hell or even Xavi or Iniesta. The fact that you brought up Sweden proves my point. He was on the end of moves and finished them off, that is a better performance than Xavi and Iniesta ever did in their careers? If you really believe that then I have no business arguing tbh because that is just one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.

JIbers amazing post man

Sorry Jibers but it's very debatable whethere Xavi would be anywhere as effective without Iniesta or Busquets.  Same with Iniesta.  In fact, take them away from tiki taka and i don't know what they'll do.  In fact, nobody knows...  there's no data.

That's what makes Zidane so incredible and widely considered one on the top 5-10 players ever...  he played in several teams with varrying tactics and styles and various teammates.  Yet, he was able to dominate everywhere.  He played for Lippi and Carlo at Juve.  Then he played for VDB, Queiroz, Camacho, Ramon, Luxemburgo and Caro at Madrid.  He was well protected at Juve and NT... even Madrid until 2003.  But from 2003 on at Madrid, he had ZERO protection.  Yet, he dominated play completely...  which is why he's a legend at Madrid and one of the very few players that never, ever got whistled at the Bernabeu.  

To me, there are great players...  and then a class above that I call historical players.  Historical players are those that are completely unique.  There's nobody to compare them to... which is why you miss them so much when they're gone.  You just don't see anyone that are able to match them.  In my days, these players were Zico, Socrates, Platini, Maradonna and Van Basten.  Very, very few.  I have Zidane, R9, Ronaldinho and Messi as the only recent ones.  Nobody else. I'm only talking about creative players here btw... if you include defenders and keepers, there are a few others.

sportsczy wrote:Sorry Jibers but it's very debatable whethere Xavi would be anywhere as effective without Iniesta or Busquets.  Same with Iniesta.  In fact, take them away from tiki taka and i don't know what they'll do.  In fact, nobody knows...  there's no data.

That's what makes Zidane so incredible and widely considered one on the top 5-10 players ever...  he played in several teams with varrying tactics and styles and various teammates.  Yet, he was able to dominate everywhere.  He played for Lippi and Carlo at Juve.  Then he played for VDB, Queiroz, Camacho, Ramon, Luxemburgo and Caro at Madrid.  He was well protected at Juve and NT... even Madrid until 2003.  But from 2003 on at Madrid, he had ZERO protection.  Yet, he dominated play completely...  which is why he's a legend at Madrid and one of the very few players that never, ever got whistled at the Bernabeu.  

To me, there are great players...  and then a class above that I call historical players.  Historical players are those that are completely unique.  There's nobody to compare them to... which is why you miss them so much when they're gone.  You just don't see anyone that are able to match them.  In my days, these players were Zico, Socrates, Platini, Maradonna and Van Basten.  Very, very few.  I have Zidane, R9, Ronaldinho and Messi as the only recent ones.  Nobody else.  I'm only talking about creative players here btw... if you include defenders and keepers, there are a few others.

Euro 2008? I'm pretty sure Xavi did okay without Xavi and Iniesta no? Xavi and Iniesta are historical to me so I won't say much else. Saying Zidane dominated after 2003 is a bit of a stretch tbh. He had fleeting moments of brilliance but it sill wasn't enough for Madrid to win squat. He is a legend because his goal won Madrid the 9th, just like Cristiano would be if he won Madrid the decima. Put Xavi in a team where he had as many touches he would be just as good. Zidane still had the most touches in all the teams he played in. That's what great mf need. There is no point in talking about hypothetical and systems, Iniesta played in Bacelona and Spain and dominated. Whether he would have done well in another style is irrelevant.

Xavi had Iniesta in Euro 2008.  Only difference was that Marco Senna backed up by Alonso played the DM role instead of Busquets.  The system was tiki taka even with Aragones.

Zidane couldn't lift the team to elite level by himself after 2003 because Flo destroyed everything on an annual basis (sometimes semi-annual).  I mean, Madrid went through 5 managers in his last 3 years lol.  But in terms of his role, Zidane was absolutely dominant... he did everything he could with literally no help.  Only in his last season, 2005-2006, did you see age catching up to him, which is why he retired.  He could still play at the highest level... but not consistently anymore.  He also lost faith in Madrid building a winner and that was the only thing that might have kept him going...  didn't believe in the project and he didn't feel like changing teams. He decided to leave with the fans seeing him play at only the highest level.

Zidane only proved himself with insane defensive support. Makelele-Vieira double pivot. Desailly, Thuram and the likes in defense. Let him dominate a European Cup final against Sir Alex Ferguson's greatest United side while having a 20 year old Busquets in midfield, 40 year old Slyinho, out of position Yaya Toure in defense (), out of position Puyol, a young Pique, harmstring-injured Iniesta playing through pain and match-unfit Henry first, then we can talk.

Only French people and Real Madrid fans rate him highly. French Madrid fans go full retard. And yes, Zidane got booed in the Bernabeu.

Now back to topic.

Who sounds like the retard here?

I guess all the football magazines in the world who all put Zidane in the top 10 players ever must have either french or real madrid editors... you make my laugh often dude. Makes this board fun. Never change my man.

sportsczy wrote:Who sounds like the retard here?

I guess all the football magazines in the world who all put Zidane in the top 10 players ever must have either french or real madrid editors...  you make my laugh often dude.  Makes this board fun. Never change my man.

Zidane did get booed so I don't know what you are on about there. As I said individually, I rate Iniesta on par with Zidane or maybe just a shade below. Both at their best are around the same level. Xavi I can say he is more of a supplement player. I don't really get what you are arguing tbh.

Zidane never got booed at Madrid that i can recall... and i would recall, believe me. Iniesta is great, but far below Zidane. Scope of his impact on the pitch was smaller. He was like Zidane but only covered 2/3 of the real estate. You have to understand that the way Zidane was played... he had two holding players and Zidane was responsible for the entire creativity load. That's how it was for WC 98, Euro 2000 and WC 2006. That's why NT would fall apart any time Zidane wasn't there (WC 2002 and WCQ for 2006). His responsibility for making the team score was enormous. You had a great defense, great holding mids and then very good strikers/wingers... the entire responsibility of managing flow and creating play for the forwards was on him.

sportsczy wrote:Zidane never got booed at Madrid that i can recall... and i would recall, believe me.  Iniesta is great, but far below Zidane.  Scope of his impact on the pitch was smaller.  He was like Zidane but only covered 2/3 of the real estate.  You have to understand that the way Zidane was played...  he had two holding players and Zidane was responsible for the entire creativity load.  That's how it was for WC 98, Euro 2000 and WC 2006.  That's why NT would fall apart any time Zidane wasn't there (WC 2002 and WCQ for 2006).  His responsibility for making the team score was enormous.  You had a great defense, great holding mids and then very good strikers/wingers... the entire responsibility of managing flow and creating play for the forwards was on him.  

How convenient. I remember in the first year when he joined he was booed quite a few times. If you think Zidane is far greater than Iniesta, then there is no point in me arguing thb. This is going nowhere. Let's just agree to disagree.

You're right... i remember the first year whistles. You know why? Figo and Zidane had to figure out how to play with each other. Both were used to complete freedom. Once VDB shaded Zidane to the left next to Roberto Carlos and Figo right, that team clicked. By the end of September, the whistles were gone never to return.... and the CL goal made him immortal at Madrid of course. He didn't hit his true stride until his second year, which was a great one. Of course, Flo lost his mind then.

jibers wrote:Xavi I can say he is more of a supplement player.

What is that even supposed to mean? Xavi has been the engine and pace maker of 2 of the greatest footballing sides of all time. Some of his greatest individual performances on the biggest stages include:

4 assists in the Bernabeu in a single game.

Back to back domination of 2 CL finals, assisting goals in both of them.

Back to back domination of 2 European Championship finals, assisting goals in both of them, player of the tournament in 1. I mean how ridiculous is that alone? Some of the greatest footballing sides like the Italian NT have only 1 EC in their history. Xavi has 2 and dominated both finals.

2nd most chances created in a single World Cup in World Cup history, only behind Cruyff 74.



Coupled with unreal consistency and professionalism week in week also against small teams. And then you read Madrid fans saying Ronaldo's counterattack tap-ins in a WC qualifier against Sweden when they were trailing the scoreline and opening up towards the end hasn't been matched by Xavi or Iniesta and they can only tiki-taka. derp da herp

> Zidane top 10 player of all time
> Zidane dominating all the time, never got booed
> 3 league titles and 1 CL in entire career playing for some of the most stacked and decorated teams of their time

top lel

And I can actually accept Zidane > Iniesta.

Fußball wrote:

jibers wrote:Xavi I can say he is more of a supplement player.

What is that even supposed to mean? Xavi has been the engine and pace maker of 2 of the greatest footballing sides of all time. Some of his greatest individual performances on the biggest stages include:

4 assists in the Bernabeu in a single game.

Back to back domination of 2 CL finals, assisting goals in both of them.

Back to back domination of 2 European Championship finals, assisting goals in both of them, player of the tournament in 1. I mean how ridiculous is that alone? Some of the greatest footballing sides like the Italian NT have only 1 EC in their history. Xavi has 2 and dominated both finals.

2nd most chances created in a single World Cup in World Cup history, only behind Cruyff 74.



Coupled with unreal consistency and professionalism week in week also against small teams. And then you read Madrid fans saying Ronaldo's counterattack tap-ins in a WC qualifier against Sweden when they were trailing the scoreline and opening up towards the end hasn't been matched by Xavi or Iniesta and they can only tiki-taka. derp da herp

> Zidane top 10 player of all time
> Zidane dominating all the time, never got booed
> 3 league titles and 1 CL in entire career playing for some of the most stacked and decorated teams of their time

top lel

And I can actually accept Zidane > Iniesta.

I cba to argue. Read what I wrote. I rate Zidane slightly ahead of Xavi.

Fußball wrote:

jibers wrote:Xavi I can say he is more of a supplement player.

What is that even supposed to mean? Xavi has been the engine and pace maker of 2 of the greatest footballing sides of all time. Some of his greatest individual performances on the biggest stages include:

4 assists in the Bernabeu in a single game.

Back to back domination of 2 CL finals, assisting goals in both of them.

Back to back domination of 2 European Championship finals, assisting goals in both of them, player of the tournament in 1. I mean how ridiculous is that alone? Some of the greatest footballing sides like the Italian NT have only 1 EC in their history. Xavi has 2 and dominated both finals.

2nd most chances created in a single World Cup in World Cup history, only behind Cruyff 74.



Coupled with unreal consistency and professionalism week in week also against small teams. And then you read Madrid fans saying Ronaldo's counterattack tap-ins in a WC qualifier against Sweden when they were trailing the scoreline and opening up towards the end hasn't been matched by Xavi or Iniesta and they can only tiki-taka. derp da herp

> Zidane top 10 player of all time
> Zidane dominating all the time, never got booed
> 3 league titles and 1 CL in entire career playing for some of the most stacked and decorated teams of their time

top lel

And I can actually accept Zidane > Iniesta.

You call that tap-ins ?

Valkyrja wrote:

You call that tap-ins ?

They were great finishes. But my God, you don't call chasing perfectly weighted throughballs by Moutinho into oceans of space behind the defensive line of one of the worst national teams out there in a WC qualifier a "special" performance.