Stoke City vs Liverpool FC || January 12th

Red Alert wrote:

The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.

I'll put myself in the realist category, thank you very much.   

Yes, but then your view isn't exactly objective.

You don't complain about the wind; you complain about the sails, or the captain, or the keel, or the rudder... but you definitely complain.  As do we all, at some point.  You just do so more often than most.  Accept it, but please don't embrace it.

RedOranje wrote:

Red Alert wrote:

The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.

I'll put myself in the realist category, thank you very much.   

Yes, but then your view isn't exactly objective.

You don't complain about the wind; you complain about the sails, or the captain, or the keel, or the rudder... but you definitely complain.  As do we all, at some point.  You just do so more often than most.  Accept it, but please don't embrace it.

Yes, but when you want to adjust the sails, and the sails aren't being adjusted due to the optimist captain, you have to "complain".   

Except that captain has adjusted the sails, he's simply not adjusted them in the manner you suggested. That's a fairly huge and important difference... especially when you talk about adjusting the sails you then either say that adjustment is either buying new sails or you then say that he should never tack because it doesn't fit your specific wish for sailing.

OH MY GOD RED, LET ME JUST ADJUST THE SAILS

This game was the exact opposite of the Athletic vs. Barcelona game. Apart from the Suarez 2nd and Sturridge goals, all had something to do with poor defending. But what pleases me most is we showed (immense) character (if not poise) to get a result.

Don't care how we played or what mistakes we made, there's always the next game to improve on these. But the three points in the bag will remain.

Have you people seen Crouch & Adams play this good in Liverpool shirt!!! OK Villa, bring it on.

iftikhar wrote:Have you people seen Crouch & Adams play this good in Liverpool shirt!!! OK Villa, bring it on.

Crouch? Yes. His hattrick against Arsenal and double against Besiktas come to mind immediately.

Adam? Lol.

I loved Crouchy when he was with us. He had some brilliant performances for us and scored some beautiful goals, the two bicycle goals come to mind.

Adam

Adam flopped for us, but still think that's harsh.

He did okay whilst playing next to Lucas. He just went DOWNHILLLLLLLLLLLLLL (as did the rest of the team) after he played that holding role.

Crouch was cool. That header against us was unsaveable, really. Perfect header. Made it look like he was going far post, stooged Kolo and Mignolet couldn't react quickly enough although he got close.

Adam did well against us to be fair. Exploited that space in the "hole" because Lucas was too acting/playing as an AM. He really needs to drop back deeper. I don't care if people think he's been "out of form" or "not good enough" but he still does his role for the team. I know it's not all about stats and all that (I hate stats myself) but he has the most intercepts and tackles in this team. And he's not even playing at his highest level...

I think we won the yday's game because we gave Stoke the confidence 'yes we can do it, Liverpool are shite today in midfield, we can surely get the third goal, let's go and give everything and win this match'..... and what happened in the end, they over commited themselves and got slaughtered on the counter with the last three goals   

Midfield was bad, defense was bad, weather was bad, Mark Hughes's wife was bad, Crouch's wife is hot. . .

ALL AGREED . . . but at the end of the day what mattered was. . . .

Agreed, I liked winning ugly in the first half. Its something new.

Rodgers (pre-match talk) : 'Only Norwich City have won at the Britannia this season. Tough game this!'

Luis Suarez only heard Norwich City. (collected)

     

Fahim

Not happy with this performance at all.

Yes it may be Brittania and we had never won there before in the history of the Premier League yet our tactics were symbolic.

Our defence continues to be like silly putty as Glen Johnson once again continues his meteoric decline in an average performance in attack and failure to position himself multiple times during the game. Aside from his wonderful chested touch from a Gerrard cross, he has failed to replicate the dynamic and skilled RB that he was and his attitude is even worse. Was awful vs Arnautovic. I yearn for Kelly or anyone else to start over this man, he is not up to the task.

Martin Skrtel, who people fail to see what an average CB he has become, once again was positionally at fault for 2 of the 3 goals and is a disaster waiting to happen. He attempts to defend as if he reads the game (anticipating the attacker, Italian style turn and point) yet he has no vision outside a single attacker. Outside last-ditch situations, he only causes our line to be compromised and further instills why Agger is almost twice the CB that he is.

Toure was at fault for one goal yet remained positionally sound throughout, as this serves testament to what I've seen; an all-round consistent season for him.

Cissokho was awful. No surprise there.


Most interesting point was the Lucas-Gerrard combination in which Lucas was given almost infinite freedom to attack while Gerrard played an almost sweeper role very similar to Leonardo Bonnuci of Juventus. I quite enjoyed Gerrard's attempt to reinvent himself as despite the few odd stray passes he was defensive sound, frequently dropping as the 3rd CB while his overlook vision of the field in his crosses on both sides were excellent. Lucas failed because due to his freedom, he was not attuned to tracking back and as we know, he is offensively non-existent in his technique; which is why I failed to see the point of Lucas in such an unfamiliar role.

Henderson was near anonymous, as expected to be within the return of a dominant Gerrard. He had no idea nor was given a clear idea of his role and was rather disappointing in possession.

Coutinho was influential yet continues to be one of the worst finishers in the final third, somehow finding an uncanny ability to shoot straight at the GK no matter what the angle.

We were completely overrun in the midfield by Stoke, with Charlie Adam pulling the strings for them. Adam choose mostly to occupy the right side in order to cut into his favoured left foot, in essence failing to properly link the midfield to attack for Stoke, yet succeeded in late runs into the box, allowing much space for him to navigate his passes. I feel he had a decent career in Liverpool (first half) yet proved not worthy enough given his Hollywood play. Nevertheless I always liked him for what he can produce and the classy manner in which he left Liverpool. Glad to see him as Stoke's finest player this season.

We won 3-5 yet our continual failure to shut down an average Stoke attack was the bane of our existence. Not only we fell asleep in dire complacency when in the lead yet we cannot be troubled so much by this average team, no matter what stadium we are in.

Our saviour from the reignited partnership of SAS saved our hinds; while fortune was also on our side during the ordeal.

Nice to note what a difference Sturridge makes in our system, providing the direct thrust to lead our line and providing Suarez a near telepathic link to compliment his indirect navigation.

Would opt for Sterling to be dropped to make presence for Sturridge if our attack needs to be sacrificed.

What I am happy about is our reaction to each of the goals yet Stoke's defence was non-existent in talent or tactics.

We must improve ourselves defensively and drop some players who do not deserve to start, namely in the defence.

Raheems penalty decision

Spoiler:

Charlie Adam goal

Spoiler:

Walters goal

Spoiler:

Crouch goal

Spoiler:

that run, control and perfect pass at the right time, was top class from Studge

How come Hendo is always the first one to join the celebration when any player scores !!!

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:How come Hendo is always the first one to join the celebration when any player scores !!!

Because he doesn't stop running. . . hasn't yet!!   

I couldn't find a higher quality one for Studge's goal

McAgger wrote:

http://instagram.com/p/jHRPiLHNdV/#

Arquitescu wrote:Not happy with this performance at all.

Yes it may be Brittania and we had never won there before in the history of the Premier League yet our tactics were symbolic.

Our defence continues to be like silly putty as Glen Johnson once again continues his meteoric decline in an average performance in attack and failure to position himself multiple times during the game. Aside from his wonderful chested touch from a Gerrard cross, he has failed to replicate the dynamic and skilled RB that he was and his attitude is even worse. Was awful vs Arnautovic. I yearn for Kelly or anyone else to start over this man, he is not up to the task.

Martin Skrtel, who people fail to see what an average CB he has become, once again was positionally at fault for 2 of the 3 goals and is a disaster waiting to happen. He attempts to defend as if he reads the game (anticipating the attacker, Italian style turn and point) yet he has no vision outside a single attacker. Outside last-ditch situations, he only causes our line to be compromised and further instills why Agger is almost twice the CB that he is.

Toure was at fault for one goal yet remained positionally sound throughout, as this serves testament to what I've seen; an all-round consistent season for him.

Cissokho was awful. No surprise there.


Most interesting point was the Lucas-Gerrard combination in which Lucas was given almost infinite freedom to attack while Gerrard played an almost sweeper role very similar to Leonardo Bonnuci of Juventus. I quite enjoyed Gerrard's attempt to reinvent himself as despite the few odd stray passes he was defensive sound, frequently dropping as the 3rd CB while his overlook vision of the field in his crosses on both sides were excellent. Lucas failed because due to his freedom, he was not attuned to tracking back and as we know, he is offensively non-existent in his technique; which is why I failed to see the point of Lucas in such an unfamiliar role.

Henderson was near anonymous, as expected to be within the return of a dominant Gerrard. He had no idea nor was given a clear idea of his role and was rather disappointing in possession.

Coutinho was influential yet continues to be one of the worst finishers in the final third, somehow finding an uncanny ability to shoot straight at the GK no matter what the angle.

We were completely overrun in the midfield by Stoke,  with Charlie Adam pulling the strings for them. Adam choose mostly to occupy the right side in order to cut into his favoured left foot, in essence failing to properly link the midfield to attack for Stoke, yet succeeded in late runs into the box, allowing much space for him to navigate his passes. I feel he had a decent career in Liverpool (first half) yet proved not worthy enough given his Hollywood play. Nevertheless I always liked him for what he can produce and the classy manner in which he left Liverpool. Glad to see him as Stoke's finest player this season.

We won 3-5 yet our continual failure to shut down an average Stoke attack was the bane of our existence. Not only we fell asleep in dire complacency when in the lead yet we cannot be troubled so much by this average team, no matter what stadium we are in.

Our saviour from the reignited partnership of SAS saved our hinds; while fortune was also on our side during the ordeal.

Nice to note what a difference Sturridge makes in our system, providing the direct thrust to lead our line and providing Suarez a near telepathic link to compliment his indirect navigation.

Would opt for Sterling to be dropped to make presence for Sturridge if our attack needs to be sacrificed.

What I am happy about is our reaction to each of the goals yet Stoke's defence was non-existent in talent or tactics.

We must improve ourselves defensively and drop some players who do not deserve to start, namely in the defence.

I swear to god if I wrote this post, they'd be 1,000 replies calling me a pessimist.   

Anyway, I disagree with the parts in bold.

Glen Johnson whilst out of form, is still our best fullback.

And you've mixed it up. Skrtel was at fault for one goal (Adam's) and Kolo was at fault for the other 2.

Also, disappointed to see the constant attacks on Skrtel. They're not true either. Skrtel is pretty much playing as a sweeper type for us, so his job in the team is to do those "last-ditch" tackles. He's having a very similar season in 11/12, where he was voted our best CB and you were praising him week in week out. What happened? Are there any examples of him being a disaster waiting to happen? I'm sure someone's going to bring up the pulling in defence, but the best CB in the league in Kompany does them too. They both have to cut them out, but most of the time the attacker is pulling Skrtel as well. That's why there's no penalties being given.

There is no way Agger is "twice" the better the defender. It's arguable that he's JUST better than him as a defender. Yes, he reads the game better, but he's not that great in the air, loses 1 on 1s regularly, he continuously heads the ball back into dangerous positions, gets dominated when he has to vs anyone with decent power/pace, and has lapses in concentrations on a regularly basis. He's not the same defender as he once was.

Skrtel and Toure have never worked, and I doubt they ever will. Sakho should come back in the next game, so we'll improve defensively.

Sterling >> Cou this past month. Cou should be dropped for DS15 next game

I agree Sterling has been better than Cou in the past month, but I'm still sitting on the fence on who gets benched out of the two.

Coutinho is our second best playmaker in the final third after Suarez (Gerrard's playing deeper), but you can't exactly drop Sterling in this form. Luckily for us, it's BR's decisions to make.

Natalie Portman wrote:Sterling >> Cou this past month. Cou should be dropped for DS15 next game

I think I agree that Sterling has been better than Coutinho lately. However, against Stoke one of the biggest problems for us was, imo, that we weren't able to keep the ball in midfield or find our forwards with it. Coutinho offers more in that area.

I would be pretty much ready to give Coutinho a try as CM, not because I think that would be a natural position for him, but because we haven't got many that great CMs for a three-man midfield. We're one short, imo.

Red Alert wrote:

Arquitescu wrote:Not happy with this performance at all.

Yes it may be Brittania and we had never won there before in the history of the Premier League yet our tactics were symbolic.

Our defence continues to be like silly putty as Glen Johnson once again continues his meteoric decline in an average performance in attack and failure to position himself multiple times during the game. Aside from his wonderful chested touch from a Gerrard cross, he has failed to replicate the dynamic and skilled RB that he was and his attitude is even worse. Was awful vs Arnautovic. I yearn for Kelly or anyone else to start over this man, he is not up to the task.

Martin Skrtel, who people fail to see what an average CB he has become, once again was positionally at fault for 2 of the 3 goals and is a disaster waiting to happen. He attempts to defend as if he reads the game (anticipating the attacker, Italian style turn and point) yet he has no vision outside a single attacker. Outside last-ditch situations, he only causes our line to be compromised and further instills why Agger is almost twice the CB that he is.

Toure was at fault for one goal yet remained positionally sound throughout, as this serves testament to what I've seen; an all-round consistent season for him.

Cissokho was awful. No surprise there.


Most interesting point was the Lucas-Gerrard combination in which Lucas was given almost infinite freedom to attack while Gerrard played an almost sweeper role very similar to Leonardo Bonnuci of Juventus. I quite enjoyed Gerrard's attempt to reinvent himself as despite the few odd stray passes he was defensive sound, frequently dropping as the 3rd CB while his overlook vision of the field in his crosses on both sides were excellent. Lucas failed because due to his freedom, he was not attuned to tracking back and as we know, he is offensively non-existent in his technique; which is why I failed to see the point of Lucas in such an unfamiliar role.

Henderson was near anonymous, as expected to be within the return of a dominant Gerrard. He had no idea nor was given a clear idea of his role and was rather disappointing in possession.

Coutinho was influential yet continues to be one of the worst finishers in the final third, somehow finding an uncanny ability to shoot straight at the GK no matter what the angle.

We were completely overrun in the midfield by Stoke,  with Charlie Adam pulling the strings for them. Adam choose mostly to occupy the right side in order to cut into his favoured left foot, in essence failing to properly link the midfield to attack for Stoke, yet succeeded in late runs into the box, allowing much space for him to navigate his passes. I feel he had a decent career in Liverpool (first half) yet proved not worthy enough given his Hollywood play. Nevertheless I always liked him for what he can produce and the classy manner in which he left Liverpool. Glad to see him as Stoke's finest player this season.

We won 3-5 yet our continual failure to shut down an average Stoke attack was the bane of our existence. Not only we fell asleep in dire complacency when in the lead yet we cannot be troubled so much by this average team, no matter what stadium we are in.

Our saviour from the reignited partnership of SAS saved our hinds; while fortune was also on our side during the ordeal.

Nice to note what a difference Sturridge makes in our system, providing the direct thrust to lead our line and providing Suarez a near telepathic link to compliment his indirect navigation.

Would opt for Sterling to be dropped to make presence for Sturridge if our attack needs to be sacrificed.

What I am happy about is our reaction to each of the goals yet Stoke's defence was non-existent in talent or tactics.

We must improve ourselves defensively and drop some players who do not deserve to start, namely in the defence.

I swear to god if I wrote this post, they'd be 1,000 replies calling me a pessimist.   

Anyway, I disagree with the parts in bold.

Glen Johnson whilst out of form, is still our best fullback.

And you've mixed it up. Skrtel was at fault for one goal (Adam's) and Kolo was at fault for the other 2.

Also, disappointed to see the constant attacks on Skrtel. They're not true either. Skrtel is pretty much playing as a sweeper type for us, so his job in the team is to do those "last-ditch" tackles. He's having a very similar season in 11/12, where he was voted our best CB and you were praising him week in week out. What happened? Are there any examples of him being a disaster waiting to happen? I'm sure someone's going to bring up the pulling in defence, but the best CB in the league in Kompany does them too. They both have to cut them out, but most of the time the attacker is pulling Skrtel as well. That's why there's no penalties being given.  

There is no way Agger is "twice" the better the defender. It's arguable that he's JUST better than him as a defender. Yes, he reads the game better, but he's not that great in the air, loses 1 on 1s regularly, he continuously heads the ball back into dangerous positions, gets dominated when he has to vs anyone with decent power/pace, and has lapses in concentrations on a regularly basis. He's not the same defender as he once was.

Skrtel and Toure have never worked, and I doubt they ever will. Sakho should come back in the next game, so we'll improve defensively.

Glen Johnson will be called our best fullback when we don't exactly have much competition in this current injury crisis on that department. He has relinquished literally every facet of his previous game into a slow, cumbersome and ponderous on the ball fullback who screams of liability. He's been out of form for over a a year now, that to me is more like a decline than out of form.

I appreciate Skrtel over Toure because he actually adheres to his role rather than playing a role out of his depth, to which Skrtel has done awfully. I enjoy that Toure is less reactive than Skrtel who is only fit reading one attacker at a time, essentially not screening the attack but sticking on his man. Statistically we are better with Agger as our backline has more composure within precarious moments as well.


Skrtel-Toure? Agree as it will never work, plays like square pegs in round holes.