All about Mesut Özil

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I have seen Silva be a passenger many times, Fabregas be a passenger, Iniesta be a passenger, Xavi be a passenger and so on.

The whole thing is massively overblown, Ozil was great last year when he was actually available and wasn't being deployed as a winger. He struggled this season because he was limited to a role he cannot be.

Put Ronaldo at CM and see how well it goes, this was just as moronic. For all the superlatives about Silva he's as inconsistent as anyone in the world, he went 2 years basically contributing nothing yet no one said a thing.

People like to be negative about certain players and positive about others and won't change no matter what and the argument constantly changes depending on what side of the fence you are in.

Ozil is clearly a great player when he's not asked to be Aaron Lennon and is clearly special at what he does, absolutely nonsense to suggest otherwise.

ozil is not a great player imo. at Madrid he was a 70-80 min player and was subbed most of the time. in the big games for arsenal he is poor. take the spurs game. he started well got the goal then spurs put the pressure on. and that was the last we saw of him. imo ozil is a fair weather player.

I thought he was great today. And he was great against Villa and Leicester. But meh against Spurs (even though he got the goal).

Let him show this good form for more than 4-5 games before claiming he's the best AM in the league. But yea he's finally showing top Ozil form.

i havent seen ozil lately but i know what he is capable of, at his best easily number 1 AM in footy, if he is truly back to his best then arsenal comes 3rd or second by season ends

MR BOND wrote:people saying ozil is better than silva. ozil is a 70 min player on a good day. and a passenger on most days. he has talent. but in the big games he folds like a cheap deck chair.

/debate lmao

Silva isn't anywhere Ozil's class and it's laughable to claim otherwise. Ozil's big game record isn't fantastic but it's miles better than Silva who's consistently bottled it in Europe for 4 seasons now.

Even Nasri has a much better resume in that regard.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
So now Silva has the singular responsibility of carrying City when Toure is out and it's entirely his fault when City lose points? It has nothing to do with all the forwards being out at some point between December and February, Kompany being found out, and Mangala flopping? Not to mention Silva himself only recovered from an injury over a month long in December. Their forward situation was so bad they had to panic buy Bony to make sure it doesn't happen again.

I agree that Silva has largely been a spectator over the past year but this post is ridiculous.

Could take this, replace Silva with Özil, some names with 'Ramsey', 'Walcott', 'Arteta' and all the others we had injured and it would be exactly like I was talking about the sh*t storm Özil was at the center of last season because he dared to suffer when the team lost it's key players. And this isn't a team that has won the league twice in the last few years btw, FWIW.

Haha dubbing a player that just glides around the pitch for most of the game and does a few worldie passes every now and then as the best AM in the world is crazy

If that is 'special' in many peoples eyes, then I'll be glad to reside in the minorty and don't even feel an ounce of guilt about it either.

His stats, accolades, achievements and actual play contradict that as does the fact that he's been an unquestioned starter for winning sides under Mourinho, Low and Wenger but he probably got to where he is because he's 'not special' at all. Can't believe that fluke made it this far without being found out.

RealGunner wrote:Has been absolutely fantastic since coming back from injury. Bulked up and is physically miles better. Has been outperforming the likes of Silva, Cesc and other pretenders. Only Cazorla and Hazard have been better

dafug did i just read

first he costed more then silva and fabregas. second u dont measure someone vs bottom league teams. rememba spurs game?

MJ wrote:His stats, accolades, achievements and actual play contradict that as does the fact that he's been an unquestioned starter for winning sides under Mourinho, Low and Wenger but he probably got to where he is because he's 'not special' at all. Can't believe that fluke made it this far without being found out.

I'm not saying he is a fluke
or that he is bad,
He is a good player. And amazing on his day. He's ball control and technique is something to behold at times. And yes he has nice stats.

But he is too inconsistent for my liking and has a playing style that is also to my disliking. And the "best AM in the world" tag is a step too far.

Stop trying to phrase me.

Not 'phrasing' you at all. You said he was 'nothing special' and 'overhyped'.

I'm not saying anything about a 'best attacking midfielder in the world', anyone can disagree with that, I just said it's a step way too far in the other direction to say what you actually did say. But clearly you don't really like him and that's your opinion.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:RG is right, since coming back he has been and because Silva is loved by all no matter what he does he'll never be criticised.

He went basically 18 months being absolutely crap, after his fantastic debut season yet no one said a thing. A lot worse than anything Ozil has done.

But anyway back to the current day, RG is right since Ozil has been back he's been better than those players mentioned. Not to mention Silva has been absolutely crap without Yaya, where was the criticism of Silva when Yaya was at AFCON and he failed to keep the team competitive.

Which ultimately led from City being level on points to 8 points behind, because I guarantee right now if Ozil had done the same we wouldn't stop being told about how he's a flop, a passenger etc etc.

People can't be consistent with their criticism and praise to save their lives lol.

So now Silva has the singular responsibility of carrying City when Toure is out and it's entirely his fault when City lose points? It has nothing to do with all the forwards being out at some point between December and February, Kompany being found out, and Mangala flopping? Not to mention Silva himself only recovered from an injury over a month long in December. Their forward situation was so bad they had to panic buy Bony to make sure it doesn't happen again.

I agree that Silva has largely been a spectator over the past year but this post is ridiculous.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, the inconsistency in the praise and criticism. Silva was rubbish without Yaya to hold his hand and yes it was his job to carry the team and he failed miserably.

Ozil in the same situation would get weekly criticism but loveable little Silva is absolutely beyond all criticism, please be consistent for once.

El Gunner wrote:

MJ wrote:His stats, accolades, achievements and actual play contradict that as does the fact that he's been an unquestioned starter for winning sides under Mourinho, Low and Wenger but he probably got to where he is because he's 'not special' at all. Can't believe that fluke made it this far without being found out.

I'm not saying he is a fluke
or that he is bad,
He is a good player. And amazing on his day. He's ball control and technique is something to behold at times. And yes he has nice stats.

But he is too inconsistent for my liking and has a playing style that is also to my disliking. And the "best AM in the world" tag is a step too far.

Stop trying to phrase me.

Yet you think Coutinho is better () and he's 100x more inconsistent because he runs around aimlessly doesn’t mean he's consistent lol.

I'll say it again be consistent, because you can't say Ozil is inconsistent yet say Coutinho is better when he's about as consistent Sepp Blatter's tirade against racism.

It's funny how Ozil apparently folds in big games yet Silva's big game resume is absolutely crap.

You can't deride Ozil for disappearing in big games yet praise Silva when his CL big game record is abysmal. Also he's just as much as a passenger as Ozil is, his defensive work is zilch and he's pointless without the ball.

Why do you think City are so easy to score against? Because their entire midfield are useless off the ball except Fernandinho, what do you lot see lol.

Piece of advice, if you're going to debate with someone be consistent. Then it wouldn't be so damn easy to pick through these massively large holes.

Isco > Ozil

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:RG is right, since coming back he has been and because Silva is loved by all no matter what he does he'll never be criticised.

He went basically 18 months being absolutely crap, after his fantastic debut season yet no one said a thing. A lot worse than anything Ozil has done.

But anyway back to the current day, RG is right since Ozil has been back he's been better than those players mentioned. Not to mention Silva has been absolutely crap without Yaya, where was the criticism of Silva when Yaya was at AFCON and he failed to keep the team competitive.

Which ultimately led from City being level on points to 8 points behind, because I guarantee right now if Ozil had done the same we wouldn't stop being told about how he's a flop, a passenger etc etc.

People can't be consistent with their criticism and praise to save their lives lol.

So now Silva has the singular responsibility of carrying City when Toure is out and it's entirely his fault when City lose points? It has nothing to do with all the forwards being out at some point between December and February, Kompany being found out, and Mangala flopping? Not to mention Silva himself only recovered from an injury over a month long in December. Their forward situation was so bad they had to panic buy Bony to make sure it doesn't happen again.

I agree that Silva has largely been a spectator over the past year but this post is ridiculous.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, the inconsistency in the praise and criticism. Silva was rubbish without Yaya to hold his hand and yes it was his job to carry the team and he failed miserably.

Ozil in the same situation would get weekly criticism but loveable little Silva is absolutely beyond all criticism, please be consistent for once.

What was Silva supposed to do when he's the only creative force on the pitch for City without Yaya, Nasri and Aguero? You need chemistry on the field and for all the money City have spent, they have actually bought very few creative players who make the attack click between themselves. Yaya, Aguero, Silva and Nasri. Yet all of them but Silva have been missing for large parts of 2015 or all of it until now.

And I actually think Silva is very consistent. He does his thing every game, his basic level is very high even if he doesn't always pop up with a game changing assist or goal. If City play poorly it's 90% of the time because the limitations of their other players.

And as far as comparing Özil and Silva comes, the stats of the time they've both been in the Prem read:

2013-2014
Özil 5 + 10 in 2140 minutes.
Silva 7 + 12 in 2160 minutes.

2014-2015
Özil 3 + 4 in 900 minutes.
Silva 9 + 6 in 1620 minutes.

The stats are on Silva's side and as far as my personal judgement goes when watching them play, I think Silva is the better player. But he's possibly a top-5 player in the Prem, so not exactly a shame to be inferior to him.

Özil always does his runs and his wonder passes, it's mostly up to the players surrounding him to make something of it. He was great at Real when he had Higuain, Benz, and Ronaldo to bounce off, he was great at Bremen with Pizarro, Almeida, Diego, Marin and Hunt, and he did well at Arsenal when he got to play in a lineup with wingers who were capable of actually doing something with the passes they received.

He's had his shit days like all players, and I certainly wouldn't single Özil out to be a big game player in the same way guys like Müller never fold in big games, he's not that mentally tough, true.
But he's not the first to collapse in most matches either, it's just that his finishing has declined ever since the 2010 season, and people who expect him to be Kaka are just plain going to be disappointed. Currently a lot of teams play variations on the 4-3-3 or 3-4-3/5-3-2, all of which are formations that don't accomodate a classic #10 all that well, and tend to demand a proper #8, who will either clash with a #10, or have to develop a certain understanding.

This is all to say, that in 90% of matches were Özil actually got to play as a proper #10, playing together with forwards that don't fumble every odd first touch, he has been brilliant.

Not his fault he's had to play with f*cking Giroud while Podolski, a player he has blind understanding with, rots on the bench.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

El Gunner wrote:

MJ wrote:His stats, accolades, achievements and actual play contradict that as does the fact that he's been an unquestioned starter for winning sides under Mourinho, Low and Wenger but he probably got to where he is because he's 'not special' at all. Can't believe that fluke made it this far without being found out.

I'm not saying he is a fluke
or that he is bad,
He is a good player. And amazing on his day. He's ball control and technique is something to behold at times. And yes he has nice stats.

But he is too inconsistent for my liking and has a playing style that is also to my disliking. And the "best AM in the world" tag is a step too far.

Stop trying to phrase me.

Yet you think Coutinho is better () and he's 100x more inconsistent because he runs around aimlessly doesn’t mean he's consistent lol.

I'll say it again be consistent, because you can't say Ozil is inconsistent yet say Coutinho is better when he's about as consistent Sepp Blatter's tirade against racism.

lol you remember when I said this.

I actually do think Coutinho has peak potential that can make him better than Ozil. Agree though that he is inconsistent as well. Never said he was consistently good.

VivaStPauli wrote:Özil always does his runs and his wonder passes, it's mostly up to the players surrounding him to make something of it. He was great at Real when he had Higuain, Benz, and Ronaldo to bounce off, he was great at Bremen with Pizarro, Almeida, Diego, Marin and Hunt, and he did well at Arsenal when he got to play in a lineup with wingers who were capable of actually doing something with the passes they received.

He's had his shit days like all players, and I certainly wouldn't single Özil out to be a big game player in the same way guys like Müller never fold in big games, he's not that mentally tough, true.
But he's not the first to collapse in most matches either, it's just that his finishing has declined ever since the 2010 season, and people who expect him to be Kaka are just plain going to be disappointed. Currently a lot of teams play variations on the 4-3-3 or 3-4-3/5-3-2, all of which are formations that don't accomodate a classic #10 all that well, and tend to demand a proper #8, who will either clash with a #10, or have to develop a certain understanding.

This is all to say, that in 90% of matches were Özil actually got to play as a proper #10, playing together with forwards that don't fumble every odd first touch, he has been brilliant.

Not his fault he's had to play with f*cking Giroud while Podolski, a player he has blind understanding with, rots on the bench.

Oh don't get me started on this BS.

Didn't we already clarify that if he was as good as people make him out to be he'll find a way to adapt to whatever formation he's playing in.

It isn't impossible for a playmaker to play in those formations that you just mentioned.

It's not like I tried to made the point that he was the best and most complete player ever. I just think he's an incredibly talented specialist who's the world's best at his niche.

You either afford him that place in your system, and he's brilliant, or you don't, and he's not.

VivaStPauli wrote:It's not like I tried to made the point that he was the best and most complete player ever. I just think he's an incredibly talented specialist who's the world's best at his niche.

You either afford him that place in your system, and he's brilliant, or you don't, and he's not.

OK understandable.

And he's the best at his niche because only he plays the way he plays

He was crap mostly at Madrid his last 18 months there... frustrating beyond belief because he was fantastic his first 2 years and showed flashes after.

He was more interested in girls and parties...  was the laziest player on the pitch.  That did him in with us.  His lack of professionalism and constant whining regarding his contract made Flo find a replacement...  but carry on.

sportsczy wrote:He was crap mostly at Madrid his last 18 months there... frustrating beyond belief because he was fantastic his first 2 years and showed flashes after.

He was more interested in girls and parties...  was the laziest player on the pitch.  That did him in with us.  His lack of professionalism and constant whining regarding his contract made Flo find a replacement...  but carry on.

Thug Life

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

This is exactly what I'm talking about, the inconsistency in the praise and criticism. Silva was rubbish without Yaya to hold his hand and yes it was his job to carry the team and he failed miserably.

Ozil in the same situation would get weekly criticism but loveable little Silva is absolutely beyond all criticism, please be consistent for once.

The difference is that I have never called Silva world class and while some people have they were never as loud as the Oezil fan boys.

Pretty much every Real Madrid player was hypothetically involved in scandalous affairs towards the end of Mourinho's tenure because of how well he held the dressing room together. And all of these character assassinations happen after stars leave to vindicate their sales, it's typical.

It's unfair to compare at the moment Ozil's assist stats with Silva's. The Spaniard has in front of him the best striker in the league not that scrub Giroud. Ozil was an assist machine with Ronaldo....