Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Not sure if Pochettino or Wenger

Those comments should put big teams on alert. That defeatist will only get him jobs at clubs without ambition

Levy is not thinking about trophies though, Pochettino knows he is perfectly on line with his boss saying that. He cares about a top 4 finish and the money associated with that

You guys are really ignoring the "This is Tottenham" side of this topic. What was Spurs doing before Poch? Nothing. What are they doing with Poch? Nothing. What would they being doing after Poch? Nothing. For the very least, Poch has made them as competitive as one can get but at the end of the day, we are dealing with a special type of loser club.

I reckon Poch in a team with just a tad bit more ambition and winning mentality would be lovely. Yes, I be bias, I like him.

Spurs won trophies and went further in the CL before Poch

who gaf about winning the carabao cup lmao

keeping your top players and playing big cl matches >>>

Casciavit wrote:who gaf about winning the carabao cup lmao

keeping your top players and playing big cl matches >>>

They won more before he was there though.

They haven't won any big CL games under his tenure lol.

Unless you count winning in the group stage of course lol.

The only difference between Spurs before and Spurs now is they are more consistent in the league.

In terms of big CL games and trophies he's not done anything they weren't doing before.

they beat Madrid, that counts

Mr Nick09 wrote:they beat Madrid, that counts

Not in the group stage it doesn't.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Spurs won trophies and went further in the CL before Poch

Last major trophy was the FA Cup back in 91 and last trophy in general was 2008. I mean, going by that standard, I suppose you're right. That awfully low, shitty standard but a standard nonetheless.

I think people are being unfairly harsh on Pochettino here.

He's not wrong about the domestic cups. They don't elevate teams. Teams don't develop a "winning mentality" by winning them. Arsenal won the FA Cup three times in four years and it did jack shit to them. Liverpool haven't won a domestic trophy in years yet are top of the PL at the moment looking like they can win the whole thing.

If Spurs win an FA Cup under Pochettino, would Madrid fans be more excited about him becoming their new manager? I'm not so sure.

The reality is, for a club like Spurs to remain at the level it is, it needs CL football all the time. If you win the FA Cup, you get £6.6m. If you reach the last 16 of the Champions League, you get £70m. CL chasing teams are never going to prioritise the cups.

Jay29 wrote:I think people are being unfairly harsh on Pochettino here.

He's not wrong about the domestic cups. They don't elevate teams. Teams don't develop a "winning mentality" by winning them. Arsenal won the FA Cup three times in four years and it did jack shit to them. Liverpool haven't won a domestic trophy in years yet are top of the PL at the moment looking like they can win the whole thing.

If Spurs win an FA Cup under Pochettino, would Madrid fans be more excited about him becoming their new manager? I'm not so sure.

The reality is, for a club like Spurs to remain at the level it is, it needs CL football all the time. If you win the FA Cup, you get £6.6m. If you reach the last 16 of the Champions League, you get £70m. CL chasing teams are never going to prioritise the cups.

You are thinking like a business man though. Poch too, this is what Levy told him. I don't think most players care about the future of the club if it doesn't involve them.

Fans want to see trophies, to have bragging rights against their rivals. Players too, do you think Kane and Eriksen are happy that they went out of the FA Cup so they can continue their chase for CL football from which they will inevitably crash out next year? Footballers don't have long careers and their players will soon realize that they can get CL football AND trophies if they leave.

How many of our players cared about winning the FA Cup to stay, though? Those wins didn't have Sanchez or Ozil running to Highbury House to sign new contracts.

You can be in the CL and win trophies... if you play for a team with the depth and quality to compete in both competitions, which Tottenham don't. That's the state they're trying to achieve, but they need CL to achieve it. I think the Spurs squad is fully aware of this because Pochettino would have explained it to them.

And frankly, if Barca or Madrid came in for someone like Eriksen, Eriksen isn't going to stay because Spurs won the FA Cup. The only way Spurs keep hold of that type of talent is to grow as a club.

Jay29 wrote:How many of our players cared about winning the FA Cup to stay, though? Those wins didn't have Sanchez or Ozil running to Highbury House to sign new contracts.

You can be in the CL and win trophies... if you play for a team with the depth and quality to compete in both competitions, which Tottenham don't. That's the state they're trying to achieve, but they need CL to achieve it. I think the Spurs squad is fully aware of this because Pochettino would have explained it to them.

And frankly, if Barca or Madrid came in for someone like Eriksen, Eriksen isn't going to stay because Spurs won the FA Cup. The only way Spurs keep hold of that type of talent is to grow as a club.

It's not just about the FA Cup though, it's the mentality that winning a trophy doesn't matter that Pochettino is spreading. Let's not even kid ourselves that the likes of Kane and Eriksen don't care about winning trophies, instead of winning nothing. These players don't just want to get paid, most of them want to remembered in history and winning an FA Cup after so long will certainly cement themselves in Tottenham's history at least. Kane at least has the PL record going but no one besides from Tottenham fans is going to remember Eriksen if he doesn't do something extraordinary for the rest of his career. Helping Tottenham win a trophy after so long would certainly do that.

And again the fans factor, nevermind that doesn't matter apparently so long as they keep paying from their own pockets, Levy must be happy.

The fans' happiness is fleeting, though. Catering to them is a dangerous game.

Say that Spurs went all in on the FA Cup and Carabao Cup. They win both, but drop vital points in the league and finish 5th. Without CL, and a new stadium to pay off, they can't spend. So they go a summer with no signings, again. Maybe a big player leaves for Madrid or something. Then they have a rough start to the new season.

Do you believe that the fans would go "it doesn't matter, because we won the double last year"? Or do you think they boo the team, complain and demand signings?

From my own experience, it's going to be latter. Whatever that says about the modern day fan, it's undeniable that what keeps fans happy is having a competitive team in the league and that smaller cup successes are forgotten the moment it seems the team is slipping.

My feeling is that this discussion only happens because its Spurs and we have the impression that Spurs are perennial losers. But the thing with that is that every club chasing Europe and big trophies treats the domestic cups like nuisances. Unless they're drawn against other strong teams, you will always see weakened line-ups and kids. Maybe Pochettino shouldn't demean the cups in public as he often does, but I don't think his thinking is wrong and I guarantee that managers of other clubs think the same thing.

I wanted to see Poch pick up even an EFL cup or FA Cup this season just to get rid of the no trophy narrative.

However it's abundantly clear with the number of injuries, not just now but throughout the season, that those trophies weren't going to happen. N'koudou, who has hardly seen an EPL minute in his Spurs career, is getting minutes right now. Tottenham apparently don't have a single penny to spend in the summer or winter and just sold their best midfielder to China for 11m pounds so they don't lose that money in the summer.

When it comes to dire straits like it has for Tottenham this season, he had to prioritize one or the other. He chose the EPL and CL and I can't blame him.

Based on the lineups he put out earlier in the season when injuries were present but not as heavy, I do believe Poch was trying to win one of the FA/EFL this season. But with injuries it turned into an obstacle instead of something to achieve. If Spurs can somehow get to the quarters or semis of the CL, that's worth a lot more.

Jay29 wrote:The fans' happiness is fleeting, though. Catering to them is a dangerous game.

Say that Spurs went all in on the FA Cup and Carabao Cup. They win both, but drop vital points in the league and finish 5th. Without CL, and a new stadium to pay off, they can't spend. So they go a summer with no signings, again. Maybe a big player leaves for Madrid or something. Then they have a rough start to the new season.

Do you believe that the fans would go "it doesn't matter, because we won the double last year"? Or do you think they boo the team, complain and demand signings?

From my own experience, it's going to be latter. Whatever that says about the modern day fan, it's undeniable that what keeps fans happy is having a competitive team in the league and that smaller cup successes are forgotten the moment it seems the team is slipping.

My feeling is that this discussion only happens because its Spurs and we have the impression that Spurs are perennial losers. But the thing with that is that every club chasing Europe and big trophies treats the domestic cups like nuisances. Unless they're drawn against other strong teams, you will always see weakened line-ups and kids. Maybe Pochettino shouldn't demean the cups in public as he often does, but I don't think his thinking is wrong and I guarantee that managers of other clubs think the same thing.

It happens to Spurs because they haven’t won a trophy in a decade let alone a league title. They are in no position to ridicule the domestic cups.

Anyway I’m glad my manager doesn’t talk such rubbish after a cup exit, I would’ve been fuming tbh as are most Spurs fans right now if you listen to them.

urbaNRoots wrote:

Jay29 wrote:I think people are being unfairly harsh on Pochettino here.

He's not wrong about the domestic cups. They don't elevate teams. Teams don't develop a "winning mentality" by winning them. Arsenal won the FA Cup three times in four years and it did jack shit to them. Liverpool haven't won a domestic trophy in years yet are top of the PL at the moment looking like they can win the whole thing.

If Spurs win an FA Cup under Pochettino, would Madrid fans be more excited about him becoming their new manager? I'm not so sure.

The reality is, for a club like Spurs to remain at the level it is, it needs CL football all the time. If you win the FA Cup, you get £6.6m. If you reach the last 16 of the Champions League, you get £70m. CL chasing teams are never going to prioritise the cups.

You are thinking like a business man though. Poch too, this is what Levy told him. I don't think most players care about the future of the club if it doesn't involve them.

Fans want to see trophies, to have bragging rights against their rivals. Players too, do you think Kane and Eriksen are happy that they went out of the FA Cup so they can continue their chase for CL football from which they will inevitably crash out next year? Footballers don't have long careers and their players will soon realize that they can get CL football AND trophies if they leave.

I don't know how true this is. Fans care about trophies, sure, but I think they care more about finishing top 4. The simple fact is that if Spurs win the FA Cup but don't finish top 4 they will lose all their best players. The players would care about not playing CL football and the club would lose so much money they couldn't afford to ward off bigger club's attempts to convince them to join.

If you were to ask a fan would you rather win the FA Cup and lose Jan, Eriksen and Kane or stay in the top 4 to fight for the league another year without winning anything, I think they would choose the 2nd every time. They know they have a good thing going and wouldn't risk it for an FA Cup.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

urbaNRoots wrote:

Jay29 wrote:I think people are being unfairly harsh on Pochettino here.

He's not wrong about the domestic cups. They don't elevate teams. Teams don't develop a "winning mentality" by winning them. Arsenal won the FA Cup three times in four years and it did jack shit to them. Liverpool haven't won a domestic trophy in years yet are top of the PL at the moment looking like they can win the whole thing.

If Spurs win an FA Cup under Pochettino, would Madrid fans be more excited about him becoming their new manager? I'm not so sure.

The reality is, for a club like Spurs to remain at the level it is, it needs CL football all the time. If you win the FA Cup, you get £6.6m. If you reach the last 16 of the Champions League, you get £70m. CL chasing teams are never going to prioritise the cups.

You are thinking like a business man though. Poch too, this is what Levy told him. I don't think most players care about the future of the club if it doesn't involve them.

Fans want to see trophies, to have bragging rights against their rivals. Players too, do you think Kane and Eriksen are happy that they went out of the FA Cup so they can continue their chase for CL football from which they will inevitably crash out next year? Footballers don't have long careers and their players will soon realize that they can get CL football AND trophies if they leave.

I don't know how true this is. Fans care about trophies, sure, but I think they care more about finishing top 4. The simple fact is that if Spurs win the FA Cup but don't finish top 4 they will lose all their best players. The players would care about not playing CL football and the club would lose so much money they couldn't afford to ward off bigger club's attempts to convince them to join.

If you were to ask a fan would you rather win the FA Cup and lose Jan, Eriksen and Kane or stay in the top 4 to fight for the league another year without winning anything, I think they would choose the 2nd every time. They know they have a good thing going and wouldn't risk it for an FA Cup.

Admittedly I don’t know any Spurs fan irl but reading comments online they are really upset about not winning a trophy with this generation of players and Pochettino’s comments don’t really help in that regard. You guys don’t have to explain the importance of the top 4 to me, an Arsenal fan. Wenger has been trying to put this idea in people’s heads way before Pochettino and Klopp. I get it but from just a fan’s perspective they want trophies. It’s easy for us to say that they should be happy about just finishing top 4 but we don’t get mocked daily about supporting a club that wants to be respected as a big club and yet has no trophies to show for it. For me, I get why they are upset, I didn’t even admit of being an Arsenal fan to strangers during our trophyless era to avoid the unoriginal jokes and having to explain why being in the top 4 is better.

To me, the difference between Poch and Wenger is that Wenger always seemed satisfied to merely finish 4th whereas Poch and this current crop of players see finishing in the top 4th as a stepping stone for a trophy fight.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:To me, the difference between Poch and Wenger is that Wenger always seemed satisfied to merely finish 4th whereas Poch and this current crop of players see finishing in the top 4th as a stepping stone for a trophy fight.

That’s how Wenger saw it too, but everyone ridiculed him back then. And rightly so.

He may have said that, but I don't think anyone believed there was ambition beyond top 4 in the last 5 or 6 years

BarrileteCosmico wrote:He may have said that, but I don't think anyone believed there was ambition beyond top 4 in the last 5 or 6 years

And yet he won more trophies in his 'least ambitious' years than pochettino will win in his best

I don't watch a lot of spurs games what's so great about poch in particular? Seems like everything is the club fault.

The fact that we are doing comparison between a club arsenal and tottenham is the biggest achievement of pochettino.

Personally, Poch and Wenger should not even be a discussion as the latter is a legendary manager while Poch can't even beat Palace in the FA Cup 4th round. Also...

Adit wrote:The fact that we are doing comparison between a club arsenal and tottenham is the biggest achievement of pochettino.

Nuff said lads