La Selección Argentina V.2

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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by messixaviesta on Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:32 am

@Robespierre wrote:2002 was the best team of that WC on paper . for me . Anyway the manager was Bielsa. He was confirmed even after that failure because the players were falled in love for him ... and then he got good results  , so right choice

Although Argentina has always great NTs , it doesn't reach the semi-finals since 1990. Strange also if we consider the fact that Argentina 90 was inferior to all the other NT followed in the years. But the Argentina 90 was close to win that WC just because they had Diego Armando Maradona and because they played "anti-football" so as to reach the penalty kicks aware of their limitations. There wasn't a match who really deserved to win to Italy 90 , asking to URSS , Brazil , Iugoslavia and Italy.
In Italy the ppl still "suffer" to have missed the homemade WC because of them,


Immensely well said. Agree 100%.

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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by messixaviesta on Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:37 am

@Robespierre wrote:Seriously talking ... I would not be so worried about defence. Oh, that GK is mediocre and you could resolve much with Caballero ... but you have always Garay one of best defenders in Europe and Zabaleta best RB in the world imo
Demichelis is improved in last period of year, he played also better than Kompany.
He remained enough limited but Garay is a leader and he can fill his gaps

All is about that midfield.
Argentina has not reserve, that is the point.

Mascherano is the key of all , most important player in this NT, even more than Messi imho.
He should be dipped in the waters of the River Styx, so as to be invulnerable , and possibily also the heel , in this case.
Similar matter for Di Maria, another player with no good replacements , but Mascherano expecially, he is essensial for the balance of team . He IS The balance . How much would be served the old Cambiasso with Mascherano now, solid partnership who would have completed this NT and in this case Argentina would be my favored to win the Cup . and it's reason why Maradona as manager will be always a regret to have wasted a chance of title

Well .. C ' Mon my 2nd NT Molenation


Largely I agree with everything you say here. I may be the biggest Maradona hater at this forum but not taking Zanetti, Cambiasso, etc. to the world cup was unforgivable.


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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by messixaviesta on Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:45 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:But the starters will be:

Monaco
City - Napoli - Benfica - Lisbon
Boca - Barca - RM
Napoli - Barca - City

City, Barca, Napoli, Benfica 2
Monaco, Lisbon, RM 1

Inter: VAGI

alfred, I would like to analyze some of these individually.

1. Romero's lack of games - how does that hurt us?

2. Has Federico Fernandez been playing enough this season?

3. Does Mascherano have any problems due to playing as CB for Barca?

4. If Gago is not fit how much will our midfield suffer?

5. The most pleasing things to me here are the attack (Messi, Aguero, Higuain although the latter needs to shed his big match flop image), Di Maria and Zabaleta.

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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by neuro11 on Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:39 am

@messixaviesta wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:But the starters will be:

Monaco
City - Napoli - Benfica - Lisbon
Boca - Barca - RM
Napoli - Barca - City

City, Barca, Napoli, Benfica 2
Monaco, Lisbon, RM 1

Inter: VAGI

alfred, I would like to analyze some of these individually.

1. Romero's lack of games - how does that hurt us?

2. Has Federico Fernandez been playing enough this season?

3. Does Mascherano have any problems due to playing as CB for Barca?

4. If Gago is not fit how much will our midfield suffer?

5. The most pleasing things to me here are the attack (Messi, Aguero, Higuain although the latter needs to shed his big match flop image), Di Maria and Zabaleta.


you can happily add garay to your pleasing list....

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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by neuro11 on Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:47 am

mashcherano had been switching his role when he is playing for NT for a long time. since he moved to barca he never played DM for club. same goes with his NT role, he never played CB. so i think its perfectly ok for him.
also agree with Robespierre, mashcherano will be key for us.....

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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by messixaviesta on Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:18 am

@neuro11 wrote:
@messixaviesta wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:But the starters will be:

Monaco
City - Napoli - Benfica - Lisbon
Boca - Barca - RM
Napoli - Barca - City

City, Barca, Napoli, Benfica 2
Monaco, Lisbon, RM 1

Inter: VAGI

alfred, I would like to analyze some of these individually.

1. Romero's lack of games - how does that hurt us?

2. Has Federico Fernandez been playing enough this season?

3. Does Mascherano have any problems due to playing as CB for Barca?

4. If Gago is not fit how much will our midfield suffer?

5. The most pleasing things to me here are the attack (Messi, Aguero, Higuain although the latter needs to shed his big match flop image), Di Maria and Zabaleta.


you can happily add garay to your pleasing list....


Yes of course. I didn't mention him because I hardly watch him play.

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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by messixaviesta on Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:20 am

@neuro11 wrote:mashcherano had been switching his role when he is playing for NT for a long time. since he moved to barca he never played DM for club. same goes with his NT role, he never played CB. so i think its perfectly ok for him.
also agree with Robespierre, mashcherano will be key for us.....


Yes that makes good sense.


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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by M99 on Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:59 am

Pjanic will destroy that midfield.

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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by neuro11 on Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:31 pm

i think bosnia hype will end up in serbia 2006

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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:00 pm

@messixaviesta wrote:alfred, I would like to analyze some of these individually.

1. Romero's lack of games - how does that hurt us?

2. Has Federico Fernandez been playing enough this season?

3. Does Mascherano have any problems due to playing as CB for Barca?

4. If Gago is not fit how much will our midfield suffer?

5. The most pleasing things to me here are the attack (Messi, Aguero, Higuain although the latter needs to shed his big match flop image), Di Maria and Zabaleta.

1. Probably quite a lot. He has been shaky for over a year now, Sabella should've cut his losses but now it's who we are stuck with. The game plan will always be outscore the other team rather than to avoid getting scored on with this defense.

2. He's a starter for Napoli and has CL experience against Arsenal and Dortmund.

3. I don't think it will be a big issue considering he will be training for 4 weeks in that position prior to the start of the WC.

4. It depends on whether Biglia or Enzo replace him. I would prefer Enzo as he is a more complete player and has had a great season with Benfica, whereas Biglia has been largely average for Lazio.

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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by RealGunner on Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:19 pm

Haven't seen Argentina play in years literally. Excited for tomorrow's game against Trinidad.
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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by messixaviesta on Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:33 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@messixaviesta wrote:alfred, I would like to analyze some of these individually.

1. Romero's lack of games - how does that hurt us?

2. Has Federico Fernandez been playing enough this season?

3. Does Mascherano have any problems due to playing as CB for Barca?

4. If Gago is not fit how much will our midfield suffer?

5. The most pleasing things to me here are the attack (Messi, Aguero, Higuain although the latter needs to shed his big match flop image), Di Maria and Zabaleta.

1. Probably quite a lot. He has been shaky for over a year now, Sabella should've cut his losses but now it's who we are stuck with. The game plan will always be outscore the other team rather than to avoid getting scored on with this defense.

2. He's a starter for Napoli and has CL experience against Arsenal and Dortmund.

3. I don't think it will be a big issue considering he will be training for 4 weeks in that position prior to the start of the WC.

4. It depends on whether Biglia or Enzo replace him. I would prefer Enzo as he is a more complete player and has had a great season with Benfica, whereas Biglia has been largely average for Lazio.


Thanks alfred.

1. Too bad. He used to play quite well earlier though but should never have moved to Monaco. At least he should have gone on loan to an Argentine club in the winter transfer window. Sabella should have insisted on it.

2. Nice to know

3. Agree

4. I have a feeling that Sabella took the shocking decision of dropping Banega because of his faith in Enzo. It should be a like for like.

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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by neuro11 on Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:09 am

Anyone watched the full game?? Would appreciate if can summarize our performance vs Trinidad. I just saw the highlights and only thing i could understand is we created a lot of good chances and we missed a lot as well. i want to hear about our defense and midfield in this game.....
Also any tactical reason of not starting Aguero/Higuain?? Palacio looked great though in the short highlights....

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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:52 pm

I also missed the match but here are the numerical scores of each player in the argentine press:

http://canchallena.lanacion.com.ar/1698609-el-uno-por-uno-de-la-seleccion-ensayos-aprobados-y-el-sin-sabor-de-las-lesiones

http://android.ole.com.ar/#/Home/Detalle?idArticulo=OLENWS20140605_0039_newsmlg2&smallUrl=http://movil.ole.com.ar/xml/OLEIMA20140605_0019_306x237_1.jpg&largeUrl=http://movil.ole.com.ar/xml/OLEIMA20140605_0019_750x560_1.jpg&alt=Sin título&nombreSeccion=Portada

The consensus is that Mascherano, Palacio and Di Maria kicked ass, Gago's fitness was worrisome and everyone else took it as a training match.

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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by Robespierre on Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:11 pm

How is Palacio ? I 've read he got injured.
i would be very sad if he misses the WC for it , he deserved to play it
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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by iftikhar on Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:47 pm

Can anyone give what a potential Argentina line-up look like???
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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by shinigami99 on Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:56 pm

There is no potential lineup, since we already know what our lineup is going to be:
-------------------------Romero--------------------
Great lord Zabaleta-----Garay-------Ferandez-----Rojo
------Gagiesta------Mascherano------Di Magia------
---------------- ----Messi------------------------
--------Aguero----------------Higuain---------------

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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by RealGunner on Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:36 pm

Maradona vs Netherlands in 1979

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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:26 am

@shinigami99 wrote:There is no potential lineup, since we already know what our lineup is going to be:
-------------------------Romero--------------------
Great lord Zabaleta-----Garay-------Ferandez-----Rojo
------Gagiesta------Mascherano------Di Magia------
---------------- ----Messi------------------------
--------Aguero----------------Higuain---------------
Aguero and Garay might not start the first match as they're currently dealing with minor injuries. Gago might not make it to the first match because his performance has dropped after being injured so often this year (the match against T&T was his first since recovering from injury). But if everyone is fit that is definitely our starting eleven.

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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by guest_07 on Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:51 am

which argentina key player perform better in the wc in the last decade?

batistuta 2002


riquelme 2006


messi 2010

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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by iftikhar on Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:54 am

------Gagiesta------Mascherano------Di Magia------
 scratch 
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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by BarcaLearning on Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:48 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@shinigami99 wrote:There is no potential lineup, since we already know what our lineup is going to be:
-------------------------Romero--------------------
Great lord Zabaleta-----Garay-------Ferandez-----Rojo
------Gagiesta------Mascherano------Di Magia------
---------------- ----Messi------------------------
--------Aguero----------------Higuain---------------
Aguero and Garay might not start the first match as they're currently dealing with minor injuries. Gago might not make it to the first match because his performance has dropped after being injured so often this year (the match against T&T was his first since recovering from injury). But if everyone is fit that is definitely our starting eleven.


So just how good is Gago is fit anyway? I never rated him. We are talknig about winning the WC and competing with the best midfields in the world like Spain, Italy, Germany, etc., Gago does not give me confidence. Who is his backup or second choice? And also if Garay is out who is the backup? I just hope Argentina have good enough ones, hard to imagine such a strong nation not to have sufficient backup though.
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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by BarcaLearning on Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:02 am

@RealGunner wrote:Maradona vs Netherlands in 1979



Nice, dont think I've ever seen such a long old video of Maradona. Some similarities to Messi Smile
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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by messixaviesta on Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:29 pm

@shinigami99 wrote:Great lord Zabaleta

Very pleased to read that. He deserves a lot of praise.


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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by messixaviesta on Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:32 pm

@guest_07 wrote:which argentina key player perform better in the wc in the last decade?

batistuta 2002


riquelme 2006


messi 2010

Very good question but Argentina's key player in WC 2002 was Juan Sebastian Veron. He very much comes last among the three.

Between the other two it's a tough choice. I may just go with Riquelme. Compared to Messi his best performances were against slightly better teams and perhaps those performances were of higher quality. Also his team got eliminated on penalties after he had left the pitch, not got thrashed 4-0 with him very much on it.

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Re: La Selección Argentina V.2

Post by messixaviesta on Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:41 pm

@BarcaLearning wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@shinigami99 wrote:There is no potential lineup, since we already know what our lineup is going to be:
-------------------------Romero--------------------
Great lord Zabaleta-----Garay-------Ferandez-----Rojo
------Gagiesta------Mascherano------Di Magia------
---------------- ----Messi------------------------
--------Aguero----------------Higuain---------------
Aguero and Garay might not start the first match as they're currently dealing with minor injuries. Gago might not make it to the first match because his performance has dropped after being injured so often this year (the match against T&T was his first since recovering from injury). But if everyone is fit that is definitely our starting eleven.


So just how good is Gago is fit anyway? I never rated him. We are talknig about winning the WC and competing with the best midfields in the world like Spain, Italy, Germany, etc., Gago does not give me confidence. Who is his backup or second choice? And also if Garay is out who is the backup? I just hope Argentina have good enough ones, hard to imagine such a strong nation not to have sufficient backup though.

Gago at club level had a problem of being really poor in big matches. Also he was lightweight and bypassed easily by better players. For the national team though he has been playing well for a long time. Then again he's not really been tested in something as big as a world cup. We have to keep our fingers crossed. Personally I would have preferred Banega who has impressed us in several matches for Valencia but there is something strange that is wrong with him which I would like to understand better. In spite of being their best player in big matches Valencia happily discarded him. With so little competition still he never managed to establish himself in the national team. Injuries have been a big enemy. Possibly lifestyle and attitude as well. Anyway coming back to Gago I don't see him as a key player in the scheme of things. We can't hope to dominate in midfield the way Spain does. We rely heavily on our attackers and the others will have to play in the way that can best facilitate them. I think Di Maria may be the key, almost as much as Messi even. Linking midfield to the attack will be crucial and he is our man for it. Lastly about the third player in this piece. Can anyone tell me how good Enzo Perez is visavis Gago and Banega?

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