Return of the Top Defenses of the Top 5 Leagues 2014-2015 (stats)

Evra lol, not exactly hard to look good when there's at least two players covering your every move.

We all saw how crap he is at Yanited when even slightly isolated, the man used to be Aaron Lennon's playtoy ffs

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Evra lol, not exactly hard to look good when there's at least two players covering your every move.

We all saw how crap he is at Yanited when even slightly isolated, the man used to be Aaron Lennon's playtoy ffs

did you even watch more than 3 juventus games this season ?

and since when is playing in wingless formations like the 4-3-1-2 and 3-5-2 " easy " for fullbacks ?

When Pogba, Vidal and Marchisio are covering your ass it's easy yes.

these 3 are usually preoccupied with covering for Pirlo's wasted balls . .

Just in to second the agent Pep thing. Destroyed that defense in just two seasons. Outstanding work!

VivaStPauli wrote:Just in to second the agent Pep thing. Destroyed that defense in just two seasons. Outstanding work!

You have become such a broken record. Bring the old awesome viva back

Our CBs are better than Bayerns overall individually, their fullbacks are better. But our defence also works together as a much, much better unit than Bayerns.

I think our CBs are better than our CBs tbh

Disagree


Good point though. Have to agree on that one

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

VivaStPauli wrote:Just in to second the agent Pep thing. Destroyed that defense in just two seasons. Outstanding work!

You have become such a broken record. Bring the old awesome viva back

Not really Pep's fault tbh. The teams he has lost to in CHL have been amazing. Nothing to fault him from. We hit our stride last year and so did Barca this year.

Freeza wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

VivaStPauli wrote:Just in to second the agent Pep thing. Destroyed that defense in just two seasons. Outstanding work!

You have become such a broken record. Bring the old awesome viva back

Not really Pep's fault tbh. The teams he has lost to in CHL have been amazing. Nothing to fault him from. We hit our stride last year and so did Barca this year.

That's the thing. With 18 goals conceded, we are on par with our 12/13 record defensive season under Jupp, with one game to go. That after playing lackluster for a while now, we had 4 goals conceded in winter lol.
Last season, 3rd best in history with 23 goals against.

Obviously, Pep completely destroyed that defense.

And then Viva complains that I call the gist of his attacks on Pep bollocks and nonsense.

Tomwin Lannister wrote:Our CBs are better than Bayerns overall individually, their fullbacks are better. But our defence also works together as a much, much better unit than Bayerns.

I actually have to disagree a bit, and also agree a bit with Freeza (and Hans in that regard), even if it pains me: the Bayern defenders have for the most part been great individually, they've conceded very few goals, and if you think back to Bayern in the group stages especially Boateng and Badstuber had some awesome last-ditch tackles, as well as Alaba and Lahm.

It's just that there isn't much opportunity to look all that great as a defender against teams like Barca, so that's right in that regard.
Then again, Messi has been kept silent by other teams, though never by just the defense. It always also took the midfield helping out, a lot - and I don't see the unity between attack, midfield, and defense anymore with Bayern, the balance that made them great under Don Jupp.

More credit should be given to the defenders though, Pique I think has regained some of his best form, Alves as said many times already, Alba improving, and Mattieu has been a very strong addition. Rakatic's defensive work also deserves regonition.

Evra has always been good no?

I'm not a big believer in the concept of defender form. Defenders are good or they suck in essence, but their actual performance depends mostly on team form, tactics, and squad cohesion; if the transitions aren't clean, or the forwards don't feel like helping out defensively, even great defenders can look like shit.

This is especially obvious with average defenders, who can look absolutely great when the team is working, and horrible when it isn't, just think bad on Demichelis and van Buyten, those guys were accurate indicators on whether Bayern was coached defensively or not - with Demichelis we even got the instant comparison when he left Bayern while being regarded as horrible, and instantly had a great season at Malaga.

So while I happen to think that Pique sucks, the far greater influence on his performances than his own suckery is the system employed by Barca and Spain; as long as he gets help from Biscuit, the midfield takes pressure of the defense, and the forwards properly occupy space in defensive situations, he'll look good.

There's only a few key moments every couple of matches where you can really tell if a defender is something special, other than that, it's down to squad chemistry.

It's not the system, it's him. Barça has held the ball less this season, and played more vertical football, which should expose the CB s more and thus bring out worst form since he is not as protected as before, but he has played significantly better. You light argue that while we play more direct football he also gets more cover from Rakitic and Iniesta. That's true, but he has also played great when the midfield was never track back Rafinha and old man Xavi.

I think what happened transcends tactics. Pique won every title there is to win by 2010 and he had no competition for a starting spot at Barça, so he slacked and didn't train as hard. This season we bought two CBs so he had to fight for a spot. At one point he went for a month on the bench even though he was not injured. He understood that he needs to make an effort to start now, responded positively to the challenge , and we are seeing the results.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:It's not the system, it's him. Barça has held the ball less this season, and played more vertical football, which should expose the CB s more and thus bring out worst form since he is not as protected as before, but he has played significantly better.

His individual form has improved a lot, that's true, everyone can see that. Don't agree with your argument though. Pique is actually protected more than ever before, probably even more than in the Pep era. For starters the defensive line isn't as YOLO as before, Iniesta is playing the most withdrawn role he's ever played in his career, Rakitic is the CM with the highest workrate the club has had in years, Suarez is the hardest working forward on the planet, Messi has upped his workrate considerably compared to the last 2 seasons ... Implementing some long balls, counterattacks when possible and enhanced set piece strategy hasn't exactly turned Barca games into end-to-end affairs where Pique is left with more work to do.

In essence Viva is right. I've basically said the same in the John Terry thread a couple weeks ago: Defenders rely a lot on team structure.

I addressed that in literally the next sentence:

"You could argue that while we play more direct football he also gets more cover from Rakitic and Iniesta. That's true, but he has also played great when the midfield was never track back Rafinha and old man Xavi. "

Not that I disagree that structure is everything for an effective defense.

Xavi but in particular Rafinha usually only start against the weaker La Liga sides or get subbed on when the games are done and dusted and the opponent has no motivation anymore. That example doesn't work that well.

Alright let's talk about examples where Rafinha played most of the game without the other two midfielders being Iniesta and Rakitic. Let's also use whoscored ratings to assess Pique's performance because I am too lazy to dig those posts and see how he actually did:

Barça - Real Sociedad: Rafinha - Masche - Xavi, Pique score: 7.4

APOEL Nicosia - Barça : Rafinha - Masche - Rakitic, Pique score: 7.2

Eibar - Barça : Rafinha - Roberto - Rakitic, Pique score: 7.5

Elche - Barça: Rafinha - Masche - Xavi, Pique score: 8.4

So, taking these ratings with a grain of salt, I think the examples hold that he plays well even when not playing with a high energy midfield that covers for the defense.

Tsk. And no thought about the goalies? There are always balls coming through to the goal, and if you don't have a proper goalie you would ship goals galore, too.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Alright let's talk about examples where Rafinha played most of the game without the other two midfielders being Iniesta and Rakitic. Let's also use whoscored ratings to assess Pique's performance because I am too lazy to dig those posts and see how he actually did:

Barça - Real Sociedad: Rafinha - Masche - Xavi, Pique score: 7.4

APOEL Nicosia - Barça : Rafinha - Masche - Rakitic, Pique score: 7.2

Eibar - Barça : Rafinha - Roberto - Rakitic, Pique score: 7.5

Elche - Barça: Rafinha - Masche - Xavi, Pique score: 8.4

So, taking these ratings with a grain of salt, I think the examples hold that he plays well even when not playing with a high energy midfield that covers for the defense.

If I had to guess I'd say he scored goal in that Elche game

am I right?

Yup, I am

Defenders with an 8+ rating usually cause they scored a goal.

Tbh whoscored is really, really silly and we should just stop using it.

7 goals this season compared to 4 the previous one, clearly an indication of a much higher aerial ability

How can Barca have the best defense when they don't have the best RB?

isn't there a thread somewhere where a barca fan shits on piques game for like 6 paragraphs? it had video breakdown and all, I think.

FilthyLuca wrote:isn't there a thread somewhere where a barca fan shits on piques game for like 6 paragraphs? it had video breakdown and all, I think.

That was last season, Pique has been fantastic this season.

El Shaarawy wrote:How can Barca have the best defense when they don't have the best RB?

But they do