Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
Llorente will never perform if he is played to as how Caparrós did in Athletic without any pace on the wings and in an advanced position with 0 freedom to drop deep which essentially makes him another target man.
Juventus were actually good tonight and dominated Atletico throughout most of the match.
Problem is, when you let Atleti off-the-ball so much you need to understand that they are content with that cause and need only their 1-2 chances to clinically end the game and brush the opposition off; Juve on the other hand not clinical enough.
Best player of the game Marchisio for Juventus despite the team defending well as a whole.
Not a bad result per say, if not unlucky as this was by far the most difficult fixture in the group.
Juventus were actually good tonight and dominated Atletico throughout most of the match.
Problem is, when you let Atleti off-the-ball so much you need to understand that they are content with that cause and need only their 1-2 chances to clinically end the game and brush the opposition off; Juve on the other hand not clinical enough.
Best player of the game Marchisio for Juventus despite the team defending well as a whole.
Not a bad result per say, if not unlucky as this was by far the most difficult fixture in the group.
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
a formation change is really needed, I have been harping it seems like Allegri is more concentrated on keeping his job to mind which formation that would make us compete in Europe, the 3-5-2 cannot do anything worthwhile in CL we need a wing based formation, we have good players that can create in the box : Coman, Giovinco, Tevez, Pereyra (to some extent) the time to PHASE OUT the 3-5-2 is now....
if Bonucci cannot play the 4 man backline bench him ffs..... introduce and extra attacker, we cannot achieve anything when our attackers are so far away from our midfield.....
Roma plays a 4 man backline and are winning, every successful club in Europe plays with wingers and a back 4......
we will not die if we quit this 3 back nonsense......
if Bonucci cannot play the 4 man backline bench him ffs..... introduce and extra attacker, we cannot achieve anything when our attackers are so far away from our midfield.....
Roma plays a 4 man backline and are winning, every successful club in Europe plays with wingers and a back 4......
we will not die if we quit this 3 back nonsense......
elm_baraja_shaman- Fan Favorite
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
why won't ppl udenrstand that we can't change formation for such important game.
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
The ref wasn't at his best tonight,Atletico started playing unfair game just to hold the result,it was frustrating but we really didn't deserve to win this game.
We dominated the game but we lack creativity upfront and Llorente was a bad choice in my opinion,maybe Morata could have worked better with his speed and better technique.
Tevez couldn't do anything alone and our midfield wasn't providing the suppport our strikers needed against a very tight Atletico defense.
We dominated the game but we lack creativity upfront and Llorente was a bad choice in my opinion,maybe Morata could have worked better with his speed and better technique.
Tevez couldn't do anything alone and our midfield wasn't providing the suppport our strikers needed against a very tight Atletico defense.
juvealbanian- First Team
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
...and Licht trying to mark Arda Turan by standing behind him all the time
I don't know what you guys think but I think Caceres did touch the ball with his hand and it was a penalty for Atletico.
However the referee made a lot of other mistakes on Altetico's favor and as the match result wasn't affected then should not be a problem for Atleti fans.
I don't know what you guys think but I think Caceres did touch the ball with his hand and it was a penalty for Atletico.
However the referee made a lot of other mistakes on Altetico's favor and as the match result wasn't affected then should not be a problem for Atleti fans.
juvealbanian- First Team
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
the most fair result was draw. I am not concerned we played good game and organized one
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
I agree with you Devi,nothing to worry about,we played a good and balanced game away.
juvealbanian- First Team
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
DeviAngel wrote:why won't ppl udenrstand that we can't change formation for such important game.
I wasn't expecting us to change the formation today, I'm just saying we need to start using another one to later be able to play it.
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
I've said it before and i'll say it again, if we're sticking to a 3-5-2 or anything similar, Llorente isn't good enough in that role. For Serie A playing for the best team, yeah he'll do OK
When it counts though, he's far too limited and should not be starting for us regularly in the big games.
For all his size he gets put on his ass easily
For all his 'hold up play' he often makes a ridiculous lay off pass to nobody. His instinct in the box is right now non existent and he looks flat out clumsy and is a passenger at times.
When it counts though, he's far too limited and should not be starting for us regularly in the big games.
For all his size he gets put on his ass easily
For all his 'hold up play' he often makes a ridiculous lay off pass to nobody. His instinct in the box is right now non existent and he looks flat out clumsy and is a passenger at times.
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
You're not understanding how much this role is actually limited LOLrente.
Yes, he had success under Caparrós back when Athletic played like Stoke under him yet that was because they had pace on the wings and the team was built around him.
His biggest curse (and gift) is his size to which has had Conte and now increasingly Allegri use him in a role similar to Peter Crouch and Stefan Kießling not only which will limit Juventus but LOLrente as a whole.
His best times for Athletic came when within a 4-3-3 to which Muniain, Susaeta, De Marcos, Toquero etc all occupied the box while he had the freedom to drop deep and then calculate his runs, rather than his current role to which he has to remain in the box primarily and hold up the ball for a lay off to which never was his strength. Where his bodily strength came into play were on/off balls runs from deep charging into the CBs, navigating horizontally for link up play, passes down central from deep and crosses from wide areas.
Problem is with him when played out of tangent he will not perform yet in the correct system he will, which is having players with more movement playing off of him rather than having Bonnuci ping long balls onto him as lateral crosses from the wings won't do anything either.
He never was a strong finisher as his goals came from him and smaller targets creating space for him and shooting it in from any angle.
Serie A teams have figured out that since there is no link from the midfield onto him (since he is deliberately placed in the box) that crowding him will limit his movement and ability to create chances for himself. It will never work as there is no coincidence that LOLrente had his best games under Juve when it was 4-3-3 with actual fluid team movement rather than him being a plain reference point. Its the exact same thing Guardiola did with Ibra at Barça.
Morata on the other hand is impressing due to the system feeding and supporting him correct hence his notable impacts. If you feel he has better technique than prepare for a massive disappointment.
Yes, he had success under Caparrós back when Athletic played like Stoke under him yet that was because they had pace on the wings and the team was built around him.
His biggest curse (and gift) is his size to which has had Conte and now increasingly Allegri use him in a role similar to Peter Crouch and Stefan Kießling not only which will limit Juventus but LOLrente as a whole.
His best times for Athletic came when within a 4-3-3 to which Muniain, Susaeta, De Marcos, Toquero etc all occupied the box while he had the freedom to drop deep and then calculate his runs, rather than his current role to which he has to remain in the box primarily and hold up the ball for a lay off to which never was his strength. Where his bodily strength came into play were on/off balls runs from deep charging into the CBs, navigating horizontally for link up play, passes down central from deep and crosses from wide areas.
Problem is with him when played out of tangent he will not perform yet in the correct system he will, which is having players with more movement playing off of him rather than having Bonnuci ping long balls onto him as lateral crosses from the wings won't do anything either.
He never was a strong finisher as his goals came from him and smaller targets creating space for him and shooting it in from any angle.
Serie A teams have figured out that since there is no link from the midfield onto him (since he is deliberately placed in the box) that crowding him will limit his movement and ability to create chances for himself. It will never work as there is no coincidence that LOLrente had his best games under Juve when it was 4-3-3 with actual fluid team movement rather than him being a plain reference point. Its the exact same thing Guardiola did with Ibra at Barça.
Morata on the other hand is impressing due to the system feeding and supporting him correct hence his notable impacts. If you feel he has better technique than prepare for a massive disappointment.
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
Busy doing meth so check out my post in GS
Tomwin Lannister- Ballon d'Or Contender
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
Tomwin Lannister wrote:Busy doing meth so check out my post in GS
share some
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
Nah man this stuff is too good to share brah
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
As I predicted, Llorente was useless, he was so isolated that his much praised hold up play was non existent. Tevez and Morata should have been the way to go, Atletico's defense looked leaky at times. I have no problem with Llorente, but
#1 he is badly out of form, turnovers he tried yesterday always resulted in a goal in pre-season
#2 he was isolated most of the time
Also Pereyra added a nice spark to our attack once again. Promising.
We really need to give more time to our newcomers, thinking about especially Coman, because we need improvements either on the wing or in attack - and we all know Coman can play both (and by giving them playing time I surely don't mean the deep water, like yesterday, but in Serie A it is the way to go).
Overall not a bad performance, but we need to improve. As Devi said the goal was evitable.
The referee was a complete joke though. He let all the dirty play go by Atletico, without yellow cards, while we got undeserved yellows for most of the fouls, especially at the end.
#1 he is badly out of form, turnovers he tried yesterday always resulted in a goal in pre-season
#2 he was isolated most of the time
Also Pereyra added a nice spark to our attack once again. Promising.
We really need to give more time to our newcomers, thinking about especially Coman, because we need improvements either on the wing or in attack - and we all know Coman can play both (and by giving them playing time I surely don't mean the deep water, like yesterday, but in Serie A it is the way to go).
Overall not a bad performance, but we need to improve. As Devi said the goal was evitable.
The referee was a complete joke though. He let all the dirty play go by Atletico, without yellow cards, while we got undeserved yellows for most of the fouls, especially at the end.
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
Our starting XI is made up of so many indirect players
Notice how Pereyra coming on for hardly any time at all done more offensively than most of our other players combined in 70 minutes. It's not because he's some sort of magician, it's because he has the ability to run at players and take them on in the final 3rd.
Something our team lacks badly, something I've been saying for years. Untill we adress that by
Short-term, playing the likes of Coman, Morata and Pereyra more
Long-term, buying quality players who fit the bill
We'll be seeing the same old Juve, dominating the midfield even on bad days, but creating nothing and troubling nobody who is organised. Honestly we need to score first in any big European game to be in with a chance of winning these days.
Notice how Pereyra coming on for hardly any time at all done more offensively than most of our other players combined in 70 minutes. It's not because he's some sort of magician, it's because he has the ability to run at players and take them on in the final 3rd.
Something our team lacks badly, something I've been saying for years. Untill we adress that by
Short-term, playing the likes of Coman, Morata and Pereyra more
Long-term, buying quality players who fit the bill
We'll be seeing the same old Juve, dominating the midfield even on bad days, but creating nothing and troubling nobody who is organised. Honestly we need to score first in any big European game to be in with a chance of winning these days.
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
the deal here is if Allegri fails to make us progress in the group he needs to be fired simple as that, I don't care if people think he has refined or barcaed Conte's 3-5-2, if we win Serie A and fail in CL he has achieved nothing...
and it saddens me he is always practicing 4-3-2-1 in training (for those who say we cannot change formation) and cannot implement it..... that makes him a wimp who is scared of losing his job to do the right thing....
I'd gladly take 3rd in Serie A if it meant switching to a creative formation where our support strikers are doing something positive or we actually have some wing play and are deadly and also getting into the QF or SF of the CL than winning Serie A again ffs....
no shot on target ffs is pathetic..... llorente is very useless because u cannot expect a 6 ft something none pacey striker to do anything meaningful by himself without any meaningful support...... switch to 4-3-3 or 4-3-2-1 and let's judge llorente's true worth when Tevez, Gio, Coman, Pereyra are pumping in crosses into the box to him, and even a 4-3-2-1 would offer Tevez that free roam he is doing now in Allegri's 3-5-2...... if Bonucci is the one that limits us to switch formation bench and sell him FFS.... he cannot dictate what is right for Juve, Caceres, Chiellini, Ogbonna, Barzagli play fine in a back 4.........
and we actually did attack when we took out a defender for Pereyra last night that is how we should have approached the game.....
also i have read people saying we cannot just switch formations, well that is sad if Allegri cannot have the balls to switch formations then he has no right being our coach, I have seen coaches switch formations they never practise within games to suit the opposition, so how can we not play one we used in pre-season and always use at training?
3-5-2 might do well in Serie A currently but it won't outside of it..... luckily even Serie A is even figuring it out.... Inter vs Cagliari was but a taste, we need to change formations or ours is on the way coming.....
and it saddens me he is always practicing 4-3-2-1 in training (for those who say we cannot change formation) and cannot implement it..... that makes him a wimp who is scared of losing his job to do the right thing....
I'd gladly take 3rd in Serie A if it meant switching to a creative formation where our support strikers are doing something positive or we actually have some wing play and are deadly and also getting into the QF or SF of the CL than winning Serie A again ffs....
no shot on target ffs is pathetic..... llorente is very useless because u cannot expect a 6 ft something none pacey striker to do anything meaningful by himself without any meaningful support...... switch to 4-3-3 or 4-3-2-1 and let's judge llorente's true worth when Tevez, Gio, Coman, Pereyra are pumping in crosses into the box to him, and even a 4-3-2-1 would offer Tevez that free roam he is doing now in Allegri's 3-5-2...... if Bonucci is the one that limits us to switch formation bench and sell him FFS.... he cannot dictate what is right for Juve, Caceres, Chiellini, Ogbonna, Barzagli play fine in a back 4.........
and we actually did attack when we took out a defender for Pereyra last night that is how we should have approached the game.....
also i have read people saying we cannot just switch formations, well that is sad if Allegri cannot have the balls to switch formations then he has no right being our coach, I have seen coaches switch formations they never practise within games to suit the opposition, so how can we not play one we used in pre-season and always use at training?
3-5-2 might do well in Serie A currently but it won't outside of it..... luckily even Serie A is even figuring it out.... Inter vs Cagliari was but a taste, we need to change formations or ours is on the way coming.....
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
Hopefully we will learn from this and move on, we were tactically outclassed by an experienced team. Only shame is that we had so much possession but did nothing with it.
Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
We don't have any creative player in midfield therefore our ball possession isn't fruitful.
Pirlo is old and playing too deep to affect the game in opponents box,Pogba is not on top levels when talking for creativity or he is not enough,he is like our other midfielders (Vidal and Marchisio) very completed overall but lacks the vision of a Pirlo.
Pereyra showed in few minutes he played to be a threat as he along with Pogba are the only two midfielders capable to run through other players.
Our wingers are in fact wing backs and are limited technically.
Tevez is our only top creative striker and he has proved his worth but just Tevez isn't enough on matches of this level,he sometimes is selfish and other teams just easily mark him so our attack doesn't produce anymore.
If we had one creative AMF and proper wingers then we would be unstoppable.
Since we don't have those players maybe we should try a 4-3-3 or 4-3-1-2 which can be somehow effective with our current players.
We can use Coman,Giovinco or Morata as wing attackers on a 4-3-3 or with a 4-3-1-2 with Pereyra/Pogba as AMF.
Buffon
Licht - Barzagli - Chiellini - Evra
Vidal - Pogba - Marchisio
Morata/Giovinco - Llorente - Tevez
______________________
Buffon
Licht - Barzagli - Chiellini - Evra
Vidal - Pirlo -Marchisio
- Pogba -
Llorente - Tevez
Pirlo is old and playing too deep to affect the game in opponents box,Pogba is not on top levels when talking for creativity or he is not enough,he is like our other midfielders (Vidal and Marchisio) very completed overall but lacks the vision of a Pirlo.
Pereyra showed in few minutes he played to be a threat as he along with Pogba are the only two midfielders capable to run through other players.
Our wingers are in fact wing backs and are limited technically.
Tevez is our only top creative striker and he has proved his worth but just Tevez isn't enough on matches of this level,he sometimes is selfish and other teams just easily mark him so our attack doesn't produce anymore.
If we had one creative AMF and proper wingers then we would be unstoppable.
Since we don't have those players maybe we should try a 4-3-3 or 4-3-1-2 which can be somehow effective with our current players.
We can use Coman,Giovinco or Morata as wing attackers on a 4-3-3 or with a 4-3-1-2 with Pereyra/Pogba as AMF.
Buffon
Licht - Barzagli - Chiellini - Evra
Vidal - Pogba - Marchisio
Morata/Giovinco - Llorente - Tevez
______________________
Buffon
Licht - Barzagli - Chiellini - Evra
Vidal - Pirlo -Marchisio
- Pogba -
Llorente - Tevez
juvealbanian- First Team
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
I think it is always going to be difficult for Juve against these teams that, on paper, have more talent than Juve. However, with Allegri, I at least feel confident that he will make tactical changes for better or for worse. With Conte, I never really saw tactical changes in European games. Having Pirlo back could really make a difference.
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
The problem with the starting 11 is that it always has an extra defender, the 3-5-2 is always a 5-3-2
But against Atletico the other problem is that Juventus played for a 0-0
But against Atletico the other problem is that Juventus played for a 0-0
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
Luca wrote:The problem with the starting 11 is that it always has an extra defender, the 3-5-2 is always a 5-3-2
But against Atletico the other problem is that Juventus played for a 0-0
When Pereyra came on and we switched to 4-3-3/4-3-1-2 we pressed them like crazy, that is what we need to use.
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
DeviAngel wrote:Luca wrote:The problem with the starting 11 is that it always has an extra defender, the 3-5-2 is always a 5-3-2
But against Atletico the other problem is that Juventus played for a 0-0
When Pereyra came on and we switched to 4-3-3/4-3-1-2 we pressed them like crazy, that is what we need to use.
^
what the man said
elm_baraja_shaman- Fan Favorite
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
but it shouldn't be changed against Roma its to early
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
elm_baraja_shaman wrote:DeviAngel wrote:Luca wrote:The problem with the starting 11 is that it always has an extra defender, the 3-5-2 is always a 5-3-2
But against Atletico the other problem is that Juventus played for a 0-0
When Pereyra came on and we switched to 4-3-3/4-3-1-2 we pressed them like crazy, that is what we need to use.
^
what the man said
Agree with both of you, it seems more fitting
I'm sure we would see more from Llorente with an extra midfield presence as well
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
Tbh, I didn't think we were going for the draw, I think we were going for the win. Anyways, I think we should try and play Pereyra along with Vidal, Marchisio and Pogba. The problem is we can't really bench Pirlo for too long either. Caceres can be a sub for all the defensive positions, Bonucci and Ogbonna subs for CB, Romulo sub for RB, Asamoah sub for LB and either play the 4-3-1-2, 4-3-3 or 4-3-2-1, whichever one works out best. I really like how Pereyra opens up and receives the ball, he also takes on his man and has pretty good pace and dribbling. He could really turn out to be a bargain rather than a waste of money. I think we should try the formation change after the Roma game (and the international games too).
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Re: Juventus VS Atletico Madrid
I'm sure Allegri will do the right calls with our formation and tactics, he is not that stubborn as Conte.
Still, I think he was right to play 3-5-2 in this match, draw would have been a good result for us considering Atletico's brutal home form. Just unlucky we couldn't hold out.
Still, I think he was right to play 3-5-2 in this match, draw would have been a good result for us considering Atletico's brutal home form. Just unlucky we couldn't hold out.
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