Re: The Official Balon d'Or 2014 Thread

[fatman123]

Note: as the penalty rules obviously are completely different for Real Madrid and their players, than the rest of the world, penalties are not counted towards the comparison.

How is it that someone with their head shoved so far up their ass can see a computer screen and type?

Personal insults are not viable arguments. Sorry.

Forget it. I'd ask you to prove this supposed penalty conspiracy, but I don't want to flood everyone's browsers with a bunch of meaningless gifs

[Harmonica]

How is it that someone with their head shoved so far up their ass can see a computer screen and type?

Personal insults are not viable arguments. Sorry.

Forget it. I'd ask you to prove this supposed penalty conspiracy, but I don't want to flood everyone's browsers with a bunch of meaningless gifs

Penalties given in Champions League (09-15)

9 Messi
8 Cronaldo

Penalties given in La Liga (09-15)
46 Cronaldo
28 Messi

Iturralde (retired Spanish ref) - "Most Spanish referees are Real Madrid fans"

Refereeing decisions of La Liga 14-15 after round 13

Round 13 Suarez onside goal wrongfully disallowed. (at 0-0)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3uDx4mCMAAWc7l.jpg:large
Round 14 Cronaldo gets a penalty from a obvious dive (at 0-0), Neymar doesn't get from much harder challenge (at 1-1).
http://111.imagebam.com/download/momSb3xgq3roLCNsVLgF8g/37138/371376738/Ronaldo dive Celta.gif
http://110.imagebam.com/download/KC5dHmOyARvLPPpDk3CPoQ/37138/371376721/Neymar foul Espanyol.gif
Round 15 Worlds most obvious penalty not given for Barcelona.
https://vine.co/v/O6DYWehY1iu (at 0-0)

The disparity of penalties given is huge, and it cannot be explained by tactics, nor rules changes, because only other team is benefiting of them. So what is the logical explanation to this?

Again, one can argue point without being personal with insults, no?

[fatman123]

Have you ever considered that correlation=|= causation. Just because CRonaldo is getting more pens then messi doesn't mean RM are part of some huge conspiracy, irrespective of what a retired ref implies.

Look at the stonewall penalty Cesc should have got vs Southampton yesterday. Just because of that, and the same v Burnley at the start of the season where, like cesc, Costa was booked instead of being given a penalty, does it mean mou is right about some anti-Chelsea conspiracy? Of course not

RM and barca are completely different teams and CR and Messi are completely different players playing completely different oppositions in completely different circumstances. With so many random variables thrown in its not a surprise that there's such a variance in such stats.

Anyway, 18 penalties over 6 years comes to an extra 3 pens/calendar year, which is far from a significant difference, is that even considered statistically significant?

[Harmonica]

Have you ever considered that correlation=|= causation. Just because CRonaldo is getting more pens then messi doesn't mean RM are part of some huge conspiracy, irrespective of what a retired ref implies.

Look at the stonewall penalty Cesc should have got vs Southampton yesterday. Just because of that, and the same v Burnley at the start of the season where, like cesc, Costa was booked instead of being given a penalty, does it mean mou is right about some anti-Chelsea conspiracy? Of course not

RM and barca are completely different teams and CR and Messi are completely different players playing completely different oppositions in completely different circumstances. With so many random variables thrown in its not a surprise that there's such a variance in such stats.

Anyway, 18 penalties over 6 years comes to an extra 3 pens/calendar year, which is far from a significant difference, is that even considered statistically significant?

No, because the numbers are beyond margin of error.

in 2012 Barcelona had 10 at least 50/50 penalties not given in a row in La Liga. Chance of that happening in a row without some level of conspiracy is less than 0.5^10= 1 in 1000.

Which do you believe more, 1 in 1000, or 999 in 1000?

Example's agree, statistics agree and retired referees agree, all agree; Real Madrid gets most help from the refs in La Liga, which logically isn't surprise when most referees are from Spain, in the time of Catalonian independence pursuit.

[fatman123]

The options aren't referee scandal or coincidence thigh are they? Again, correlation=\= causation. Plus, it's no secret that the standard of reffing in La Liga is absolutely awful.

I can think of a Chelsea game where we should have been given at least 3 penalties but I'm not complaining about the 'scandal of Stamford bridge' or something dumb like that, am I?

[Harmonica]

The options aren't referee scandal or coincidence thigh are they? Again, correlation=\= causation. Plus, it's no secret that the standard of reffing in La Liga is absolutely awful.

I can think of a Chelsea game where we should have been given at least 3 penalties but I'm not complaining about the 'scandal of Stamford bridge' or something dumb like that, am I?

Barcelona were denied two penalties themselves first against Chelsea.

You aren't arguing against what statistics, examples and retired referees say about Real Madrid and refereeing in La Liga, which is why in fairness I removed penalties of from the results, I didn't remove them only from Real Madrid, I removed them from everybody.

[fatman123]

One quote from a retired Spanish ref (that's probably taken out of context anyway) and a collection of stats that don't say anything significant are hardly enough to convince me of a pro RM/anti barca conspiracy.

Again, as I've said many times, just because on average CR gets 3 more pens a calendar year then Messi, it doesn't automatically indicate some sort of conspiracy, especially in a league infamous for impoverished refereeing

Moreover, I'd want to know why such a conspiracy would exist for one, and also over the period of 09-15, who won the most leagues, because I know barca dominated for a solid chunk of that period

[fatman123]

In the five seasons from 09/10 to 13/14, barca have won the league three times and the two seasons they didn't win the league they were beaten by better sides and didn't deserve to win the league

So what is this then a conspiracy to make CRonaldo win a bunch meaningless individual a awards? I honestly don't get it

[Harmonica]

The statistical disparency between CL (60 games) and La Liga (180 games) is beyond margin of error. You don't need more than that.

But when you watch games and compare situations, it also agrees with it.

Retired referees agree with it.

Those are just comfirming what statistics already tell.

Florentino Perez was selected as Real Madrid president in 09-10, consequently he's close friend of Angel Maria Villar, president of RFEF.

[fatman123]

Even if somehow you're paper thin evidence is right and there is a conspiracy, what has it achieved? Like I said, in that period the only seasons barca didn't win la liga it was because they didn't deserve to, all this supposed conspiracy has done is push CRonaldo closer to meaningless personal awards.

Anyway, there's an argument to be made that because Bale was more expensive then cr that he's the true galactico signing now, so why would Perez be doing this for cr still?

[fatman123]

And even if the la liga stats are statistically significant relative to the CL stats, do they take into account the different quality of and intention of opposition teams? also, do they account for the significantly higher standard of refereeing in the CL compared to la liga?

[Harmonica]

Even if somehow you're paper thin evidence is right and there is a conspiracy, what has it achieved? Like I said, in that period the only seasons barca didn't win la liga it was because they didn't deserve to, all this supposed conspiracy has done is push CRonaldo closer to meaningless personal awards.

Anyway, there's an argument to be made that because Bale was more expensive then cr that he's the true galactico signing now, so why would Perez be doing this for cr still?

You don't know who deserves what if you don't watch the games they play.

Last season Barca lost La Liga with Messi's wrongfully disallowed onside goal. So refereeing was fair and Barca didn't deserve win La Liga last season? That's just awful rationalizing.

[fatman123]

From a numerical standpoint, you're right. But you can't say that in that moment, based in that decision, barca lost the league. Over the course of the season barca dropped plenty of points that they shouldn't have and could have won the league with.

It'd be like me blaming the poor refereeing v Southampton of Chelsea were to lose the league by 1 point

[Harmonica]

From a numerical standpoint, you're right. But you can't say that in that moment, based in that decision, barca lost the league. Over the course of the season barca dropped plenty of points that they shouldn't have and could have won the league with.

It'd be like me blaming the poor refereeing v Southampton of Chelsea were to lose the league by 1 point

When the league is close referees have massive effect and power over the results.

Like you said 3 penalties over the year is nothing, but the opposite is true, 6 potential points during league season is huge. And then there is still the relation when they were given, you could give 10 important penalties to other, and then mask the relation with giving 10 unimportant penalties to other.

[FennecFox7]

Note: as the penalty rules obviously are completely different for Real Madrid and their players, than the rest of the world, penalties are not counted towards the comparison.

How is it that someone with their head shoved so far up their ass can see a computer screen and type?

Personal insults are not viable arguments. Sorry.

How ironic, coming from someone who resorts to them when their shitty arguments fail. Keep posting butthurt posts. Real madrid keep winning and ronaldo keeps shitting on haters like you

[Kick]

No need for that, Fennec.

[FennecFox7]

What I said is very harsh but its the truth. He skews stats his way, looks for reasons to make his idol better, and doesn't even support barcelona. From that standpoint it really isn't insulting.. its reality.

MANY of our draws were due to bad reffing and penaltys not given. NOT ONE madrid fan complained like he is right now.

[Kick]

There is no need for it.

Now return to the topic.

[adamdar]

Messi reached WC final. And failed to make impact
CR reached CL final. And failed to make impact

CR broke records. Messi broke records too
CR scored 60 goals. Messi scored as much

CR's team was third in la liga. Messi's team was second

So why CR deserves Ballon dor twice more than Messi?
Answer: Doing things in CR level is not impressive for Messi. He must play in his own standards to deserve ballon dor

[Mr Nick09]

cr won the CL
messi won nothing

am i playing this game right?

[LeBéninois]

Ronaldo for ballon d'or 2014. End of story. There is no way Messi is going to win this but some posters still come up with nonsense. Neuer maybe but I doubt it . It's not even such a big deal . Enjoy football fss .

[rwo power]

Manu Neuer for Ballon d'or. Neither Messi nor CR7 have even a fraction of his save percentage and he won BL, DFB-Cup and the World Cup. So. I said it.

[Valkyrja]

Manu Neuer for Ballon d'or. Neither Messi nor CR7 have even a fraction of his save percentage and he won BL, DFB-Cup and the World Cup. So. I said it.

Neuer

[rwo power]

CR7

[Hapless_Hans]

that free kick alone should make him ineligible for the award tbh

[Bankz]

Hans.

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