zidane overrated or not?

Only strikers can put up 9/10 ratings based on the current rating systems since they're all statistical and highly skewed towards goals and direct assists... you could play like crap and score a goal = guaranteed 8.  If you get more than a goal it's a guaranteed 9.  On the other hand, you could be a dominant CM and not reach an 8.

The perfect examples are Kroos and Matic.  They've both been outstanding so far this season.  Their season ratings?  7,46 for Kroos and 7,66 for Matic according to whoscored... so if a striker happens to play in a very high scoring league, he is going to have a MASSIVE advantage.

Also, if you look at those Serie A ratings who are based on god know what... nobody ever gets an 8 even lol. It's all between 4-7.

sportsczy wrote:Only strikers can put up 9/10 ratings based on the current rating systems since they're all statistical and highly skewed towards goals and direct assists... you could play like crap and score a goal = guaranteed 8.  If you get more than a goal it's a guaranteed 9.  On the other hand, you could be a dominant CM and not reach an 8.

The perfect examples are Kroos and Matic.  They've both been outstanding so far this season.  Their season ratings?  7,46 for Kroos and 7,66 for Matic according to whoscored... so if a striker happens to play in a very high scoring league, he is going to have a MASSIVE advantage.

Also, if you look at those Serie A ratings who are based on god know what... nobody ever gets an 8 even lol. It's all between 4-7.

are you sure there was no one that got 8 rating?

I looked at your thread on the other site... of the Juve players, I don't think i saw an 8 at all tbh.  Maybe on the other teams.  But then again, how does that make sense?  In the 5 years Zidane was at Juve, they won Serie A 2 times and finished 2nd twice (which in the Serie A of the 90s and early 00s was HUGE;  by far the toughest league ever).  He won 1 BdO and was on the podium 2 other times too.

At least i understand the whoscored rating system, although i disagree with the formula.  With the Italian media (like most everything in Italy tbh), you have no idea what the methodology is lol.

1996-97 Serie A [Round 26]​
6 April, 1997​
AC Milan 1-6 Juventus​
San Siro: 35,815 spectators​
Referee: Braschi​

​
Quite simply, Sacchi's worst ever defeat. His team was out-played, he was out-coached, and Milan had no answer to the ruthless visitors on the day. Even more amazing was the fact that Juve did not have the likes of Del Piero, Conte, Deschamps, and Montero in the match.

As Lippi said after the match: "We are as ruthless as Capello's Milan". An outstanding display from every Juve player, from goalkeeper to forward.

Zidane was ever-present in the match. He only had 1 goal, a penalty to make it 2-0. It was almost saved by Rossi. In a friendly at the beginning of the season, Zidane saw himself being dominated by Desailly in midfield. However, on this day, Zidane "made Desailly suffer". Zidane's individual rating claimed that his performance "transcended the goal he scored". A very good display from the Frenchman.

Individual Zidane highlights:



RATINGS

Peruzzi [8]; Porrini [7] - Ferrara [7] - Iuliano [6.5] - Dimas [6]; Di Livio [6.5] - Zidane [7] - Tacchinardi [6.5] - Jugovic [8]; Boksic [6.5] - Vieri [7.5]

Substitutes: Pessotto [n/a], Lombardo [n/a], Amoruso [7]

Yellow card: Di Livio

the source:
http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/zinedine-zidane-review-1996-2006.2006080/page-2

http://www.archiviolastampa.it/component/option,com_lastampa/task,search/mod,libera/action,viewer/Itemid,3/page,26/articleid,0591_01_1997_0095_0028_8012810/

1996-97 Serie A [Round 27]
13 April, 1997
Juventus 0-3 Udinese
Stadio delle Alpi: 6,177 spectators
Referee: Bettin
​
Truly a shock result, especially after the previous round. Juve had been unbeaten for 11 consecutive rounds, conceding only 3 goals in the last 11 matches. But in this match alone, they conceded 3. Amazingly, Juve had two penalties in the second half. Vieri missed his, Zidane's was saved. Udinese were down to 10-men as early as the 2nd minute, yet they still won!

Zidane was very bad. Apart from his penalty miss, his touches were very inconsistent, and he was not able to do anything of significance. Juve had the numerical advantage, but "did nothing with the ball". As the primary playmaker, this is simply unacceptable from Zidane.

Tacchinardi was red-carded in the second half for a harsh foul. Bierhoff and Amoroso were the stars for Udinese on the day.

RATINGS

Peruzzi [6]; Pessotto [5.5] - Ferrara [4] - Montero [5] - Dimas [4.5]; Lombardo [6] - Tacchinardi [4] - Zidane [4.5] - Jugovic [5]; Vieri [5] - Boksic [5]

Substitutes: Di Livio [6], Conte [n/a], Amoruso [5.5]

Yellow cards: Tacchinardi, Ferrara

Red card: Tacchinardi

the source:
http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/zinedine-zidane-review-1996-2006.2006080/page-2

http://www.archiviolastampa.it/component/option,com_lastampa/task,search/mod,libera/action,viewer/Itemid,3/page,29/articleid,0592_01_1997_0102_0031_8025782/

Not GOAT level but a legend. Slightly above Iniesta but bellow Cruyff.

I would say prime Iniesta was as good as he was tbh.

1996-97 Serie A [Round 28]
20 April, 1997
Bologna 0-1 Juventus
Stadio Dall'ara: 17,989 spectators
Referee: Ceccarrini
​
A tough win for Juve, but poorly refereed by Ceccarrini. He let many things go, and should have awarded a penalty for Bologna. He also should have sent off Bologna's goalkeeper for a foul on Boksic.

Boksic scored in the 40' to make it 1-0. It was the first match he scored in for a couple of months, if I recall correctly. Immediately after the match, Zidane praised Boksic, claiming that Juve's attack was faster and more effective when Boksic was playing.

Zidane played a very average match. His individual description remarked on that, saying he did not do much for Juve on the day. However he did some dirty work defensively to try and compensate. Although to be fair, looking at the individual descriptions and ratings for quite a few players on both teams, it was a very average match overall.

Peruzzi did some very good saves to maintain the victory. He regularly has these outstanding performances for this team; something I personally never noticed when I used to watch Juve when I was younger.

RATINGS

Peruzzi [7.5]; Iuliano [6] - Ferrara [6.5] - Montero [7] - Dimas [5.5]; Di Livio [6.5] - Deschamps [6] - Zidane [6] - Jugovic [6]; Boksic [6.5] - Vieri [5.5]

Substitutes: Lombardo [n/a], Porrini [n/a], Amoruso [5.5]

Yellow card: Jugovic

the source:
http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/zinedine-zidane-review-1996-2006.2006080/page-2

http://www.archiviolastampa.it/component/option,com_lastampa/task,search/mod,libera/action,viewer/Itemid,3/page,29/articleid,0593_01_1997_0108_0037_8035922/

currently, i thought zidane still one of the football legend, but after seen the review, zidane & consistency should not been talked in the same sentence, it is an insult to other more consistence legend

1996-97 Serie A [Round 29]
May 4, 1997
Juventus 0-0 Sampdoria
Stadio delle Alpi: 14,053 spectators
Referee: Messina
​
A poor match for Zidane, who was suffering from a toothache. Lippi had him taken to the dentist a day before the match. Zidane tried to do too much by himself -- described as "individualistic" by La Stampa after the match. Inconsistent touches, he had the desire to play for the audience and it was only towards the end of the match where he became "more concrete and focused".

In the 70th minute, Zidane and Amoruso made a play for Vieri who scored a header, who was wrongly called offside by the linesman. At first I assumed it was just a pro-Juventus bias from La Stampa, but La Gazzetta confirmed that it was a wrong decision and the goal should have stood. But this does not conceal a poor performance overall from the Frenchman.
​
RATINGS

Peruzzi [7]; Porrini [n/a] - Ferrara [6] - Montero [6.5] - Dimas [6]; Di Livio [5.5] - Deschamps [6.5] - Zidane [5.5] - Jugovic [5.5]; Amoruso [6.5] - Boksic [5.5]

Substitutes: Iuliano [5.5] - Lombardo [5.5] - Vieri [6.5]

Yellow card: Di Livio, Montero, Vieri

the source:
http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/zinedine-zidane-review-1996-2006.2006080/page-3

http://archiviostorico.gazzetta.it/1997/maggio/05/Juve_chiama_Vieri_troppo_tardi_ga_0_9705051827.shtml

http://www.archiviolastampa.it/component/option,com_lastampa/task,search/mod,libera/action,viewer/Itemid,3/page,27/articleid,0595_01_1997_0122_0029_7952327/

1996-97 Serie A [Round 30]
May 11, 1997
Verona 0-2 Juventus
Stadio Marc'Antonio Bentegodi: 28,863 spectators
Referee: Treossi
​
Another weak performance from Zidane. Verona man-marked many of Juventus' players, but the player who suffered the most was Zidane. As La Stampa says, "the pressure of Verona embarrassed Zidane", who was found out of position and too far advanced several times.

Zidane played a part in Juventus' first goal, playing the corner which Jugovic deflected to Ferrara, who scored the opening goal. La Stampa gave a very short explanation for Zidane's poor rating -- "nothing special, tired" -- and he was rated as Juventus' worst player on the pitch. Yikes.
​
RATINGS

Peruzzi [8]; Ferrara [6.5] - Iuliano [6.5] - Montero [6.5] - Dimas [6]; Lombardo [6] - Deschamps [6.5] - Zidane [5.5] - Jugovic [6.5]; Vieri [7] - Boksic [6]

Substitutes: Tacchinardi [6], Del Piero [n/a], Amoruso [n/a]

Yellow card: Ferrara, Montero, Dimas

the source:
http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/zinedine-zidane-review-1996-2006.2006080/page-3

http://www.archiviolastampa.it/component/option,com_lastampa/task,search/mod,libera/action,viewer/Itemid,3/page,33/articleid,0596_01_1997_0129_0035_7964199/

Are you talking to yourself?

RealGunner wrote:Are you talking to yourself?

i just give the historical info like what the museum built for

either you enter & learn it or you don't

Why do i have a feeling you're nitpicking times where zidane was out of form?
Oh wait, you are

FennecFox7 wrote:Why do i have a feeling you're nitpicking times where zidane was out of form?
Oh wait, you are

nitpicking????

sorry my friend

the main intention in this project is to review ALL OF HIS MATCHES, starting with his carreer in juventus

his bordeaux one is hard to find the main source

You guys realize he's going in order right? He's not nitpicking, he's literally just posting match ratings from every game in Zidane's first season.

How much stock you should give these ratings is another thing entirely

ACMRox wrote:You guys realize he's going in order right? He's not nitpicking, he's literally just posting match ratings from every game in Zidane's first season.

How much stock you should give these ratings is another thing entirely

thanks for the enlightenment, my friend, i appreciate it

1996-97 Serie A [Round 31]
May 15, 1997
Juventus 4-1 Piacenza
Stadio delle Alpi: 5,823 spectators
Referee: Cesari
​
Zidane was a substitute in this match, brought on after halftime to replace Del Piero. And for the first time in weeks, Zidane had a good performance in league play, scoring his first goal since April.

It was a very convincing performance from Juventus, in the second half especially as they scored 4 goals after a goalless first half. Zidane was regarded as the match-changer, La Stampa said that he "unlocked the match" as he scored the opener and provided much-needed creativity in the final third.

His goal can be seen at the beginning of this clip:



​
RATINGS

Peruzzi [7]; Porrini [6.5] - Tacchinardi [6.5] - Iuliano [6] - Dimas [6]; Di Livio [6] - Deschamps [7] - Jugovic [6.5] - Del Piero [6]; Boksic [4.5] - Vieri [7]

Substitutes: Conte [n/a], Zidane [7], Amoruso [6.5]

Yellow card: n/a

the source:
http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/zinedine-zidane-review-1996-2006.2006080/page-3

http://www.archiviolastampa.it/component/option,com_lastampa/task,search/mod,libera/action,viewer/Itemid,3/page,29/articleid,0597_01_1997_0133_0060_8149286/

ACMRox wrote:You guys realize he's going in order right? He's not nitpicking, he's literally just posting match ratings from every game in Zidane's first season.

Wow, I just noticed the dates at the top of each post. And FennecFox assumes that OP is only picking matches when Zidane was out of form. Looks like he was out of form all season.

guest_07

An undertaking of Borgesian quality

We have our very own little entry to Babel's Library

guest07 is telling those of us who actually watched zidane in those days already know. a supremely talented player who sometimes performed magnificently...but not a week to week savior like messi or suarez last season.

Sports has a point about the ratings. If you took the absolute best form of say platini, maradona, baggio ect, they'd get about an average of 7, if they were at their best. Basically, the Italian journalists did not fap over attacking skills

I think it's more interesting to look at the score compared to the rest of the team rather than just the number he was assigned. It's telling he was rarely MOTM, which I would assume Platini, Maradona and Baggio were often.

From that perspective it's interesting, maradona and platini were usually their teams highest rated attacking players, but there was little difference between their ratings and their best defenders, in fact sometimes their ratings were less than the defenders on average, going by newspaper reports. So where would that put zidane, not a defender or an attacker really.

the era of people chalking in 10 out of 10, hell 11 out of 10 ratings today with hattricks and 4 goal games against minnows has spoiled us....i watched zidane play, (despite being a madrid fan, i followed serie a almost religiously especially when diego was there)....if his ratings were butt average he wouldn't be candidate for individual laurels he got....now, now, i'm not a fan of such awards, but i think we all can agree that the verdict on the final ten is usually consistent (except rare cases like suarez where he's kicked out of the voting cos of biting and/violence)

also if you look at those "ratings", nobody scored a 9 or 10, sometimes even the best player according to those "ratings" scored a 6.5. i would also love to see ratings for the opposition, i mean if zidane is scoring 4 or 4.5, some holding midfielders must be having god-like games, which i'm sure when such ratings are released, even those guys would probably be on 6's and 6.5's

finally serie a from the 80s to mid 00s (before calciopolli), wasn't for clowns parma, lazio, roma, fiorentina, and sampdoria could cause problems for anyone, not to mention the big 3....if you picked the top ten midfielders in the last couple of years, put them in that juve side, and zizou in the latter, i'd bet zidane would hold his weight, not to sure about the others; ome may succeed, afterall juve weren't scrubs, but i doubt with the same impact as they do now, considering the footy played in serie a and the tackles players were allowed to get away with.....also i don't think even maradona averaged 7 to 8 point ratings in his peak periods at napoli