The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

He's been clutch for a long while.

The media narrative is what people like to listen to more than actually seeing what he does in the games that matter.

He far surpasses someone like Kobe in clutch moments, but apparently Kobe is clutch and LeBron ain't.

Makes no sense to me.

I can give you a website which dispels that myth if you want.

izzy wrote:Fair enough.

I think it comes down to personal preference now.
It's a toss up to me. (Slightly still favor Bird)

LeBron doesn't have anything to prove to me anymore, so now he's just playing for records and longevity.
If the Cavs win the title, cool. Doesn't really change much for me.

P.S. I can not believe how many people still believe the narrative that Kobe is more clutch than LeBron...... stuns me really.

Fair enough, i agree on nothing to prove mind. Although that depends on the extent, if it's being compared to GOAT status then he does if it's just he's one of the greatest players ever but short of Kareem, MJ, Russell, Magic and Bird ( there's probably a few more but you get the point) then yeah he has nothing to prove.

I think Kobe in his prime was more clutch and a much better player in crunch time but that was a result of his state of mind more than anything else.

He hasn't been that player for 5 or so years, I still think when it comes to making clutch plays Lebron still defers a little bit even it's technically the right play but he'll get the blame if the team mate misses.

I don't believe that he's some choke artist like some will proclaim him to be and he definitely can be clutch when he actually sets his mind to it. But more often than not he looks for the open guy which rightly or wrongly comes on to him.

I don't know for sure but i'm pretty damn certain that if Kerr missed that shot for the 5th chip that Jordan would have been criticized. It's wrong but it's the way we as watching public perceive it, the superstar should always take the final shot and  if he doesn't and it doesn't go in there's always vast hysteria.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Fair enough, i agree on nothing to prove mind. Although that depends on the extent, if it's being compared to GOAT status then he does if it's just he's one of the greatest players ever but short of Kareem, MJ, Russell, Magic and Bird then yeah he has nothing to prove.

I think Kobe in his prime was more clutch and a much better player in crunch time but that was a result of his state of mind more than anything else.

He hasn't been that player for 5 or so years, I still think when it comes to making clutch plays Lebron still defers a little bit even it's technically the right play but he'll get the blame if the team mate misses.

I don't believe that he's some choke artist like some will proclaim him to be and he definitely can be clutch when he actually sets his mind to it. But more often than not he looks for the open guy which rightly or wrongly comes on to him.

I don't know for sure but i'm pretty damn certain that if Kerr missed that shot for the 5th chip that Jordan would have been criticized. It's wrong but it's the way we as watching public perceive it, the superstar should always take the final shot and if he doesn't and it doesn't go in there's always vast hysteria.

Well, building the legacy with more rings is always good. Maybe one more MVP and 1 or 2 more finals MVP would really cement his place in that upper echelon.


I've never agreed with that Mole. Kobe being good in the clutch is a myth to me.
He's missed so many shots and shoots a terrible % in those moments and games, yet it gets ignored because of the narrative that "He had the courage to take the shot.....!", Yeah, but he missed.

LeBron deferring should be something he's criticized for, I've never known why people always say "He say he made the right basketball play." So? It didn't work and and they didn't get the result that they wanted. If he makes the right play and they get what they want, he gets praised. I see no reason why he shouldn't be criticized for deferring. Never made any sense to me.

Look at this stuff: http://swishnba.com/2013/10/11/kobe-vs-lebron-whos-more-clutch/

I can not call Kobe clutch and LeBron not clutch when I see that and it backs up what I've seen over the years and also this:



This isn't the definition of clutch to me (the website I linked is much more in depth of what clutch is) but if LeBron had Kobes numbers..... well we would know what would happen.

Oh don't get me wrong he deserves criticism when he defers when the clear better option is him driving to the basket ( and he'll get it from me lol) but there has been times when the better option is finding the open man and was criticized.

The two are different beasts to me and i'll say this about anyone and not just Lebron, if you are passing it off just because you don't have the confidence in yourself to make it then yeah you deserve criticism.

Which Lebron has done multiple times in his career for what ever reason, i don't know if he doesn't trust his FT shooting or what but it happens. But there's been other times when there's been a team mate wide open which probably is the right thing to do, not really his fault if they miss.

I wouldn't criticize anyone for that, there's clear different types of deferring at play here.

Fair enough.

"The right basketball play" thing just gets on my nerves. They act like the dude plays a flawless game and then if he makes the "right" play and it doesn't work, it's like "he did the right thing". That's BS to me.

He did that in the finals in 2013 as well. In game 7 on the J that sealed it. The right play was to pass it to Chalmers who would have had a free drive to the hoop, but he was feeling himself and took the shot and made it so whatever.

It's definitely the FT shooting. He doesn't trust it, which is ridiculous to me. He now trusts he J, but not his FTs?

But to me, he is clutch. He's just not Jordan or Bird clutch. Nobody is really....... except for Jerry West apparently.

I agree on the term " right basketball play " the right play is the one that wins the game lol.

Trusting the J is a lot easier tbh because even if it doesn't go in you could easily get a rebound.... *cough* Game 6 *cough* miss a free throw ? not so much, but i will say that it baffles me at this point that his FT shooting is still poor.

Plus i feel he gets like Rose sometimes, in the sense that he settles for the jump shot out of pure passive laziness rather than actually trusting it.

Nerlens Noel

Post All-Star: 13.1 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.7 apg, 2.4 spg, 2.8 bpg

I mention this because he has 18 points and 9 rebounds at half time against the Clippers.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Nerlens Noel

Post All-Star: 13.1 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.7 apg, 2.4 spg, 2.8 bpg

I mention this because he has 18 points and 9 rebounds at half time against the Clippers.

Rookie of the year candidate?

Him, Wiggins, Payton and Mirotic?

Memphis always beats us,need this win.

izzy wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Nerlens Noel

Post All-Star: 13.1 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.7 apg, 2.4 spg, 2.8 bpg

I mention this because he has 18 points and 9 rebounds at half time against the Clippers.

Rookie of the year candidate?

Him, Wiggins, Payton and Mirotic?

Those are the 4 yeah, to be honest i think Wiggins will get it on pure numbers because voters are not going to make a habit of watching Philly, Orlando and Minny

I actually have been most impressed by Mirotic but he won't get it due to inconsistent game time and Noel is a game changer at the defensive end. ( at least that's what everyone says, especially in p&r )

But yeah it will probably go to Wiggins, which is funny because of these 4 he's been the least impressive since the ASB.

I feel sorry for KD, injuries piss me off.. I'm all for regulared PED use if it improves recovery time and/or decreases injuries

LeSwagg James wrote:I feel sorry for KD, injuries piss me off.. I'm all for regulared PED use if it improves recovery time and/or decreases injuries

Lebron fan all for PEDs?

Spoiler:

Steph last 3 games

38p, 10a, 57.1% from the field, 72.7% from 3 in 36 minutes.
33p, 10a, 59.1% from the field, 55.6% from 3 in 35 minutes.
24p, 6a, 57% from the field, 62.5% from 3 in 27 minutes.



Oh yeah and forgot to add that this was against Memphis (Conley), Portland (Lillard), and Washington (Wall).

Raising that efficiency as he's going for that 50, 40, 90.

He's currently on 48, 42, 91.

I'm on my phone and in a bit of a rush, but my opinion is that LeBron shrinks in the big moments. Just going of the eye test, he looks nervy and seems to shy away from taking it to the hole (probably because he doesn't have that confidence at the line). I'm not going to discuss Kobe too much, but is argue he has that killer intinct. He wants the ball in his hands and he wants to take the shot - I don't get that feeling from LeBron.

That's just my two cents.

ranDOM 10 wrote:I'm on my phone and in a bit of a rush, but my opinion is that LeBron shrinks in the big moments. Just going of the eye test, he looks nervy and seems to shy away from taking it to the hole (probably because he doesn't have that confidence at the line). I'm not going to discuss Kobe too much, but is argue he has that killer intinct. He wants the ball in his hands and he wants to take the shot - I don't get that feeling from LeBron.

That's just my two cents.

But that's not being clutch.

Wanting to take the shot doesn't make you clutch, it's how you perform in those waning moments and when the game gets close and LeBron annihilates Kobe in that regard that it's not even close.

Killer instinct? No such thing. It's just media narrative. Monta Ellis wants to take the last shot all the time if it is available to him, but no one calls him clutch.....

Fact is, Kobe has not performed to these mystified levels that the media has given him.

http://swishnba.com/2013/10/11/kobe-vs-lebron-whos-more-clutch/

It's completely false. These stats aren't advanced metrics or all that stuff. It's there takes and makes in those close games AND their performances in the big postseason games.

It's a landslide.

If Curry doesn't get MVP i'm going to be highly disgusted, he's the closest thing to Nash in today's game. Golden State wouldn't be anywhere near this good without him and IMO wouldn't get out the first round without him.

Relax Mole, he'll win it.

He's the new face of the NBA (apparently....)

Got this little feeling inside of me that the media will vote for Westbrook ( even though he's not top 3 IMO)

Now that KD has gone down, they might give him the pity vote if they make the playoffs.

It should be Curry though. They just stomped the Grizzlies. That should have cemented it.

Why do you keep on pushing your agenda and telling me what is media narative. I didn't call Kobe clutch, I just said he doesn't shy away from the moment.

A good example for me is Joe Johnson. That dude is clutch. Anyway, the same could be said for Jordan...he took and missed a lot of final shots, but he didn't shy away from the moment. If killer instinct is media narative, you might as well call clutch media narative.

You keep telling me about what is fact and what is false, but then you use numbers to prove your point. I've been into sports long enough to know that numbers don't awlays tell the story. When I watch LeBron on big moments, he does not look comfortable with the game/series on the line.

Intead of asking who is clutch, has killed instinct, or anything like that, I say it's best to ask who you would want with the ball in their hand when the game in on te line. Feel free to say LeBron, but just know he might not even end up taking that shot. And please don't tell me my opinion is based on media - I am going off what I have seen with my own eyes.

I could say the same to you.
What is killer instinct? Missing a whole bunch of big shots and not performing in the biggest moments but because "You're not afraid to take the shot" it's all good?
What does it mean? How can you be a killer and you miss over 70% of the time? The only thing your killing is your teams chances.

At least with the term clutch, it's how you perform in the big moments and games.

Numbers don't always tell the whole story, but they do tell a part of the story. Those numbers are damning. I've watched a whole lot of sports too and the a guy who averages 31.5 pts, 46% shooting, 10 Rebounds and 6.5 assists in Elimination games where if the team lose, the series is over, tells me that this guy is showing up in the biggest moments.

And again, game on the line is only part of what I was talking about. I mentioned Elimination games, Game 7's etc. I didn't just mention game on the line shots. I would rather have the guy that looks for the best possible shot than the dude that tries to play hero and chucks up a shot over a double team and then say "..... but at least he took it". No, he missed.

I know what I've seen and it's not like I even posted an article with all that advanced metric rubbish like True Precision rating, win shares, Plus/minus or whatever. It is simple FG%. That's it, nothing else. Are you making or missing you shots? Do you show up in those big games?

Moal The truth shall set you free

Westbrook winning the MVP would be a disgrace imo.. How do you give it to a guy on an 8th placed team? Their record without KD against teams over .500 was terrible the last time I checked

Plus he's the most inefficient triple double threat ever

Cavs and Sixers should be disgusted with themselves, not a single point between the both of them for last 4 mins of the game.

East

- Coaching Rankings

Think Doc Rivers is mad overrated. Alot of people think Spo isnt good because he had Lebron....what has Rivers done without KG, PP, Allen and Rondo? Nothing special at all. He is a good coach, but I dont buy him as "neck and neck with Pop" or even in the same discussion really. I like Mole's list though.

- I didnt follow the clutch argument, feel like its been done to death and I will end up doing alot of repeating myself. I dont know exactly what everyone is saying, but I do know this...if you need someone to pull something out of the fire, if you need someone to make it happen RIGHT NOW....I dont want Lebron because he has simply failed too many times..but anyway I think it started with a head to head on Bird and Lebron though right?

Bird for me was a bit better, I agree with Mole again. Shoots the long ball much better and it opens up his game, offensively he was more diverse. You couldnt just take away something from his game and make him ineffective, can do that with Lebron and we have evidence. I also think because he wasnt athletic people think he was a bad defender, which isnt true...he was intelligent and crafty. He couldnt lock someone down the way say Lebron locked down Rose that time but he never took defensive plays off either like Lebron does. Lebron overall is the better defensive player though, no argument there though.


- The more I watch this version of Westbrook the more I am sure he isnt the MVP. He has crossed the line in terms of usage rate, this is Kobe when he had Smush Parker, Chris Mihm and scrubs...Westbrook has better players, he can let other people create if he wanted to. He isnt playing for numbers, but he is dominating the ball so much they are inevitable..and we are seeing a low shooting % and alot of turnovers because of it. Harden and Curry are doing more (perhaps not numerically, but for the team), without forcing it to that degree.

Is there any scenario where Steph doesn't win MVP?

If it's almost dead cert then odds of 2/5 seem pretty decent to me and I'll be piling on.