Re: USA gun violence thread

[McLewis]

I don't know if you guys have seen this video, but it's a horrific reality for kids in this country:

Survive the school year with these must-have #BackToSchool essentials. https://t.co/9KgxAQ0KGz
This PSA contains graphic content related to school shootings & may be upsetting to some viewers. If you feel this subject matter may be difficult for you, you may choose not to watch. pic.twitter.com/5ijYMtXRTy

— Sandy Hook Promise (@sandyhook) September 18, 2019

This video is immediately what I thought about when I heard about this shooting, the latest in a long line of so many.

[Hapless_Hans]

To add to the debate over mass shootings and gun control, it's interesting if you look at the latest case of a shooting in Germany

The other week, on the day of the Jewish holiday Jom Kippur, a 27 year old Neo-Nazi loner type carried out a shooting/terrorist attack in Halle, a city in Sachsen/East Germany.

He first attacked the local Synagogue, while the congregation with guests, about 50 people, was gathered, trying to get through the front gate, shooting at the gate and using  some kind of self-made IEDs to break through, unsuccessfully. He then tried other doors but couldn't get in as they were locked. (the people inside were barricading the doors after realizing they were attacked)
In frustration he shot a woman who happened to be on the street, tried to shoot another bystander but his gun jammed, then he left in his car, drove to a Döner stand and shot a guy who was eating there, tried to shoot a few other people without success.

Like similar right wing attacks in recent months, the perpetrator apparently announced his endeavour on 8chan, and he also livestreamed the whole attack on Twitch.

Now the interesting thing is, because of strict gun laws in Germany it's not actually easy to get powerful weapons or explosives, and the guy had resorted to building his own weapons - bought parts in the web, 3D printed parts, made ammunition himself.
Only one of the several guns he apparently had wasn't self-built.
Now on the livestreamed video, you can hear him become increasingly frustrated as his self made arsenal fails and malfunctions - exposives don't explode, his gun jams, you can hear him curse his weapons.

Had the guy had access to state of the art assault weapons and grenades, like the guys in El Paso and Christchurch had had, you could assume he had managed to kill a lot of more people.

So that's the point. The guns don't kill the victims themselves, but with guns it becomes possible to kill much more victims.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Halle_synagogue_shooting

The suspect streamed the attack online with video and audio from his action camera on his helmet. The entire footage was about 35 minutes and was streamed to the gaming website Twitch. The video shows the suspect displaying his weapons and speaking extreme antisemitic content in "poor English." He also used sarcastic gamer-slang and typical German gamer-style language, for example saying to the viewers: "At least I've proven how worthless improvised weapons are" when he realizes his weaponry and plans has failed, and also saying "One hundred percent fail" when he could not enter the synagogue doors.

In the video stream, Balliet denied the Holocaust and said that feminism led to fewer births, so there was mass immigration. Balliet blamed "the Jew" for these issues. During the attack the shooter's homemade explosives repeatedly malfunctioned and he referred to himself as "a loser", being unable to breach any of the synagogue's doors, shooting his own tire by accident and being unable to fire his gun.

[Unique]

To add to the debate over mass shootings and gun control, it's interesting if you look at the latest case of a shooting in Germany

The other week, on the day of the Jewish holiday Jom Kippur, a 27 year old Neo-Nazi loner type carried out a shooting/terrorist attack in Halle, a city in Sachsen/East Germany.

He first attacked the local Synagogue, while the congregation with guests, about 50 people, was gathered, trying to get through the front gate, shooting at the gate and using  some kind of self-made IEDs to break through, unsuccessfully. He then tried other doors but couldn't get in as they were locked. (the people inside were barricading the doors after realizing they were attacked)
In frustration he shot a woman who happened to be on the street, tried to shoot another bystander but his gun jammed, then he left in his car, drove to a Döner stand and shot a guy who was eating there, tried to shoot a few other people without success.

Like similar right wing attacks in recent months, the perpetrator apparently announced his endeavour on 8chan, and he also livestreamed the whole attack on Twitch.

Now the interesting thing is, because of strict gun laws in Germany it's not actually easy to get powerful weapons or explosives, and the guy had resorted to building his own weapons - bought parts in the web, 3D printed parts, made ammunition himself.
Only one of the several guns he apparently had wasn't self-built.
Now on the livestreamed video, you can hear him become increasingly frustrated as his self made arsenal fails and malfunctions - exposives don't explode, his gun jams, you can hear him curse his weapons.

Had the guy had access to state of the art assault weapons and grenades, like the guys in El Paso and Christchurch had had, you could assume he had managed to kill a lot of more people.

So that's the point. The guns don't kill the victims themselves, but with guns it becomes possible to kill much more victims.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Halle_synagogue_shooting

The suspect streamed the attack online with video and audio from his action camera on his helmet. The entire footage was about 35 minutes and was streamed to the gaming website Twitch. The video shows the suspect displaying his weapons and speaking extreme antisemitic content in "poor English." He also used sarcastic gamer-slang and typical German gamer-style language, for example saying to the viewers: "At least I've proven how worthless improvised weapons are" when he realizes his weaponry and plans has failed, and also saying "One hundred percent fail" when he could not enter the synagogue doors.

In the video stream, Balliet denied the Holocaust and said that feminism led to fewer births, so there was mass immigration. Balliet blamed "the Jew" for these issues. During the attack the shooter's homemade explosives repeatedly malfunctioned and he referred to himself as "a loser", being unable to breach any of the synagogue's doors, shooting his own tire by accident and being unable to fire his gun.

do you have access to class A drugs in germany. if the answer is yes then you also have access to powerful weapons he just never looked around to get any.

[Hapless_Hans]

Ultimately, it's possible to get everything, I guess. But it's much harder. It's harder to kill loads of people when you can't just buy an assault rifle, ammo, and train with it.

[Myesyats]

???

[LeVersacci]

Black guy hunted down like an animal in Georgia and killed by a father and son.

They havent been charged yet

Shit country.

[McLewis]

And they weren't going to be charged by the DA until a video surfaced and caught the whole thing. The video immediately went viral and drew widespread condemnation.

Here it is:

NEWS: Graphic video appears to show Ahmaud Arbery, 25 of GA., whose family says he was out for a run, confronted by 2 men who shot him dead saying they thought he was a burglar. A prosecutor wants a grand jury to decide whether the men should be charged. pic.twitter.com/kEYYJW7UlM

— David Begnaud (@DavidBegnaud) May 5, 2020

Now the tune has changed completely. The case is going to a Grand Jury and it's expected both men will be charged.

Had there been no video, they would not have been charged. That's how it goes for black people in this country.

[El Gunner]

odd how that person in the car behind just happened to be videoing, dont you think

[McLewis]

Not really. We've been a country of spectators for some time now. I frankly don't care who took the video or why. I'm just glad they did. Without it, the chance Ahmaud Arbery's family gets justice diminishes significantly.

[BarrileteCosmico]

odd how that person in the car behind just happened to be videoing, dont you think

If you see someone running around with guns I would take out the camera for sure, if only just in case they attack you too

[BarrileteCosmico]

And they weren't going to be charged by the DA until a video surfaced and caught the whole thing. The video immediately went viral and drew widespread condemnation.

Here it is:

NEWS: Graphic video appears to show Ahmaud Arbery, 25 of GA., whose family says he was out for a run, confronted by 2 men who shot him dead saying they thought he was a burglar. A prosecutor wants a grand jury to decide whether the men should be charged. pic.twitter.com/kEYYJW7UlM

— David Begnaud (@DavidBegnaud) May 5, 2020

Now the tune has changed completely. The case is going to a Grand Jury and it's expected both men will be charged.

Had there been no video, they would not have been charged. That's how it goes for black people in this country.

If I were black and living in the south I would wear a bodycam. Have a dash cam on my car to protect myself from others' stupidy and malice and this is no different.

[McLewis]

Lots of similarities with the Trayvon Martin shooting.

Not entirely sure if Georgia has a similar Stand Your Ground law as Florida, which is what George Zimmerman successfully used to get acquitted of Martin's murder. There was no video of that encounter though. Having one hear changes everything.

[El Gunner]

odd how that person in the car behind just happened to be videoing, dont you think

If you see someone running around with guns I would take out the camera for sure, if only just in case they attack you too

but it seems like the car was coming from behind with no knowledge of the two gunmen on the car in front.

that obviously is just an assumption off the duration of that video, and most probably it is true what you are suggesting and that the videotaker saw the gunmen beforehand

[CBarca]

The two white murderers were already, according to the video, stopped, basically out of the car and ready to confront the Arbery, who was jogging.

My guess is that this car had already seen the white killers with the guns/had already seen that those individuals harassing Arbery and started to videotape in case something went down.

Video is shocking, disturbing, and disgusting. It's hard to believe this is reality.

Racism in this country is as alive as it ever has been. Cold blooded murder. I don't think these murderers have even been arrested yet

Stay safe out there McLewis

[BarrileteCosmico]

odd how that person in the car behind just happened to be videoing, dont you think

If you see someone running around with guns I would take out the camera for sure, if only just in case they attack you too

but it seems like the car was coming from behind with no knowledge of the two gunmen on the car in front.

that obviously is just an assumption off the duration of that video, and most probably it is true what you are suggesting and that the videotaker saw the gunmen beforehand

oh could be, I haven't watched the video, everyone who's watched it then says "don't watch it" so I've stayed out.

[Hapless_Hans]

If two black guys did this to a white jogger in the state of Georgia, they'd get the death penalty 100%.

Let's see what those murderous racist lunatics get.

[Freeza]

If two black guys did this to a white jogger in the state of Georgia, they'd get the death penalty 100%.

Let's see what those murderous racist lunatics get.

They would be dead before an arrest.

[Myesyats]

The first thing that really strikes me in these real-life gunfight videos is how movies and games make shooting people look fun and kinda cool while in reality it's so horrendous you can barely look at it even if there's no blood. Fuck me, ban and take these guns away already. Clearly Americans don't have the right mindset for gun ownership. Then add on top of that mental ilness, racism and other stuff which makes it even worse...

[Hapless_Hans]

The first thing that really strikes me in these real-life gunfight videos is how movies and games make shooting people look fun and kinda cool while in reality it's so horrendous you can barely look at it even if there's no blood. Fuck me, ban and take these guns away already. Clearly Americans don't have the right mindset for gun ownership. Then add on top of that mental ilness, racism and other stuff which makes it even worse...

It's true, it looks so weird and ghastly in real life. The moment the guy collapses, it's so prosaic yet so terrifying at the same time.
Real death

[Young Kaz]

Prophetic seeing the people who complain about me turning everything into racism seeing the reality of the world and my state on video....and being horrified.

As mike Tyson said. People will judge you without being able to survive 2 minutes in your world

If they get a white jury they wont be convicted either. Stand your ground comes into play the moment that poor kid fought back.

[RealGunner]

why does this case need a trial?

[McLewis]

So this is how Georgia's Stand Your Ground Law works:

When it applies

-  Using force when you reasonably believe that the force is necessary in order to protect yourself or a third party against another person's imminent use of unlawful force.

-  The scope of the force that you can use depends on whether you reasonably believe that the type of force is necessary to defend yourself or a third party.

-  You may use deadly force only if you reasonably believe that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm to you, or to another, or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

When it doesn't apply:

-  If you're the initial aggressor.

-  You're committing, attempting to commit, or leaving after you have committed/attempted a felony.

----------------------------------

The defense will absolutely argue that this law applies based on the above, even if they were the initial aggressors, which the prosecution should and probably will argue.

This trial would be open and shut in most states. In a Deep South state like Georgia? It will be compelling.

[BarrileteCosmico]

Nothing 'imminent' about use of unlawful force though

[CBarca]

Bit confused on what you mean, BC. Can you explain?

If you see someone being robbed at gunpoint yelling "I'm gonna fuckin shoot you", isn't that reason for a bystander to believe that that is "imminent" use of unlawful force?

[Warrior]

A clear 2nd degree murder here. From what i read of the backstory it's probably 1st degree in reality, but that will be too hard to prove. Pull out a gun in a fist fight is a coward act, no law or amendment should protect them. Also it occurs on a public road not on a private property, in that case, whatever the guy did wrong you must call the police, right ? The result could have been the same, sadly

Sometimes i fear a modern civil war in USA, from the outside it seems on the merge of implosion. Hundred mass shootings already this year, i'd be anxious to shop inside a Walmart (not trolling)

And then Canada suffered its worst mass shooting last week, 22 deaths, a crazy story. Made me think lengthily of how absurd it is allowing citizens to own a rifle, or any type of gun in fact. Most of these psychos are very low profile, so why take the risk ? Individual liberty stops when the liberty/security of others is in danger imo. Baseball bats should be the max weapon allowed, could give us some epic duels, instead of fucking tragic scenes all the time.

[Art Morte]

There's one potentially important bit that the video doesn't seem to show: How the scuffle started. Did the black guy charge the redneck when he saw the shotgun? Or did the redneck confront the black guy? I'm guessing their defense will be that the black guy tried to take the gun and the killer shot in self defense.

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