The top players we've sold recently

Claudio84 wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:James is as good as Ozil, Di Maria? no, he is a rare player.

besides Isco is better than Ozil playing in 433 deep in midfield, that matters.

It's not enough to just say x or y is better, Ozil now has a team built around him, to enhance his qualities. James or Isco dont have that luxury, and that's basically the theme of this thread. We always sign quality players, and mixing them up together that we fail at, and so they underperform with us until they go to clubs that just grow around them. It makes a huge difference.

I agree about that Neither Isco nor James have the team built around them, but i do think James is as good as Ozil, Di Maria is different kind of player, but i'm not sold on him, as a LCM he was great, but as a RW he had so many difficulties he didn't know when to shoot or when to cross, that's my opinion anyway i could be wrong.

I agree about DiMaria, he was very frustrating to watch on the RW (even if none have done better than him there yet for us), LCM was obviously different because he had more passing options and could use his speed to his advantage. At PSG although he plays as a RW he looks to have a free role dropping into midfield to do his thing

As i mentioned before our buying a selling policy is laughable. For eg PSG know exactly what and who they need, they want a LW and are after Ronaldo/Hazard, if that was Perez he would be after both.

It is unbelievably poor planning by our Club. For example who's idea was it to loan out Coentrao?? Marcelo is hardly injury free, he gets injured alot. This is just one example of our incompetence. You dont need a sporting director to see how stupid this is

I agree with Nick. The problem isn't who we sell, it is who Flo buys with no consideration to team needs.


I'm kind of amazed at the praise being thrown towards Di Maria. He was useless as a RW for most of his time here and yet every year he demanded thru press a raise. So in sum he had an excellent 5 months here and then he demanded a ransom in return. Flo has no choice.

Of the entire list above the only player I regret leaving was Makelele. And that really was awful because with him the galacticos would have worked and obviously without him it didn't.

Higuain has had how many goals the previous 2 seasons...  27 and 24... while being the absolute focal point of the attack.  He was getting all the balls.

Those numbers are decent... i have no problem with them.  But the big issue is that Higuain has continued his trend of being the biggest choker when it counts the most.  He's cost not only Napoli but also Argentina in a huge way.

This year, he's turned it around SO FAR.  Remains to be seen if he keeps it going when the pressure mounts... which is where he usually falters.

It's not a question of choice... Higuain is not elite.  He's just not.  He's good.  Benz is good too.  Neither have proven they can lead an attack.  One has had the opportunity and done ok (nothing special).  The other has only had it on NT and has done ok (nothing special).

You're not gaining anything by having Higuain.  Nothing.  In fact, the only time Madrid has played well is when Benz has played in the playmaker role, which he is clearly better at than Higuain.  We don't need another player to sit on top, which is being proven this year.

Wenger doesn't build a team around anyone. He has his style and he fits the players in.

sportsczy wrote:Higuain has had how many goals the previous 2 seasons...  27 and 24... while being the absolute focal point of the attack.  He was getting all the balls.

Those numbers are decent... i have no problem with them.  But the big issue is that Higuain has continued his trend of being the biggest choker when it counts the most.  He's cost not only Napoli but also Argentina in a huge way.

This year, he's turned it around SO FAR.  Remains to be seen if he keeps it going when the pressure mounts... which is where he usually falters.

It's not a question of choice... Higuain is not elite.  He's just not.  He's good.  Benz is good too.  Neither have proven they can lead an attack.  One has had the opportunity and done ok (nothing special).  The other has only had it on NT and has done ok (nothing special).

You're not gaining anything by having Higuain.  Nothing.  In fact, the only time Madrid has played well is when Benz has played in the playmaker role, which he is clearly better at than Higuain.  We don't need another player to sit on top, which is being proven this year.

27 and 24 are quite good numbers no

I dont know about elite, by my own definition both are. And again they are both very different. One is a goal scorer first and foremost, might give you a handful of assists a season the other more like a secondary striker whos main focus does not seem to be scoring but providing for the scorer. Both could play together in a 442

I think one of Higuain's biggest quality was being a reliant scorer in the league, Levante, Gijon, Sevilla you name it he would score agsibst all those but found himself missing easy chances in the bigger games. Those games have not been an issue for us since Carlo came. If we did lose it would be by 2-1, 1-0 or something of that ilk. It is the others we struggle with you know the Sevilla, Atleti, Malaga etc of this world. Those are the games are when Higgy was at his best. Benz and Bale and recently Ronaldo seem to be struggling in those games. Unfortunately more often than not it is those games that define a champion. When you struggle to beat those teams it doesnt matter how well you do against the bigger clubs, you just wont win the title

halamadrid2 wrote:

sportsczy wrote:Higuain has had how many goals the previous 2 seasons...  27 and 24... while being the absolute focal point of the attack.  He was getting all the balls.

Those numbers are decent... i have no problem with them.  But the big issue is that Higuain has continued his trend of being the biggest choker when it counts the most.  He's cost not only Napoli but also Argentina in a huge way.

This year, he's turned it around SO FAR.  Remains to be seen if he keeps it going when the pressure mounts... which is where he usually falters.

It's not a question of choice... Higuain is not elite.  He's just not.  He's good.  Benz is good too.  Neither have proven they can lead an attack.  One has had the opportunity and done ok (nothing special).  The other has only had it on NT and has done ok (nothing special).

You're not gaining anything by having Higuain.  Nothing.  In fact, the only time Madrid has played well is when Benz has played in the playmaker role, which he is clearly better at than Higuain.  We don't need another player to sit on top, which is being proven this year.

27 and 24 are quite good numbers no

I dont know about elite, by my own definition both are. And again they are both very different. One is a goal scorer first and foremost, might give you a handful of assists a season the other more like a secondary striker whos main focus does not seem to be scoring but providing for the scorer. Both could play together in a 442

I think one of Higuain's biggest quality was being a reliant scorer in the league, Levante, Gijon, Sevilla you name it he would score agsibst all those but found himself missing easy chances in the bigger games. Those games have not been an issue for us since Carlo came. If we did lose it would be by 2-1, 1-0 or something of that ilk. It is the others we struggle with you know the Sevilla, Atleti, Malaga etc of this world. Those are the games are when Higgy was at his best. Benz and Bale and recently Ronaldo seem to be struggling in those games. Unfortunately more often than not it is those games that define a champion. When you struggle to beat those teams it doesnt matter how well you do against the bigger clubs, you just wont win the title

His goals helped us win plenty of league matches back in 2011-2012, he just never was confident in the big matches and in the Champions League.

I disagree... the little teams don't define a champion.  The big games do because every lost point is 2x since your direct adversary is getting those while you're losing them.

We've lost the league the past several years because Barca was able to beat us and not only took the points, we lost them and they had the head-to-head tiebreaker.  Same with Atleti.

It's also psychological...  you can't have confidence in your quality if you lose the big matchups.  It also breaks all momentum.

You can overwhelm the lesser teams with talent, which we mostly have for many years. I would actually venture that compared to Barca and Atleti, we've done equally well or better against all the other La Liga opponents other than those two for most of the past several seasons.

we had a better head to head than Barca last season but lost the league due to the other tough games thet managed to get wins while we could only draw and lose. We gad 2 points compared to Barca's 15 against the top 6/7 if i remember correctly. Thats just poor from us. Atleti had a worse h2h than Barca when they beat them to the title iirc. And in that season we were ahead till the last couple of weeks because of our wins in these games

The bugger games are only a small miniscule fraction of the whole season. All teams are due to drop points before and after those games. How many you drop compared to your rivals dictates the fate of the title chase

We lost both La Liga games to Atleti, lost 1 to Barca and won 1 against Barca....  that's 3 points taken and 9 given up.  And that Barcelona win was early in the season too.

Not to mention we won that Barca game on Benzema's back.

i have one question if benzema scores 30+ this season, you guys gonna ditch the "not really a goalscorer" tag? he is scoring tap-in,headers, fox in the box movement and lots of instinctive finishing, and even now he is not really a number 9,then what is he doing?

anyway only really real key player we sold was di maria, that it.

@Sport, yet we finished higher than Atleti and Barca finished higher than us proves my point in its entireity

@chad, to answer your question, i think it will depend on how those 30 come about, (i've never really gotten into the whole who is a poacher or who isn't argument, frankly, i don't care for it. i just want team trophies) and not just him but cristiano and bale as well. if they all score 50 goals each, and 99 percent  of those goals are coming against the malmos, getafes, rayos, las palmas, levantes of this world and nobody is giving me performances (not necessarily goals/assists, but big time plays and confident football), against reasonable sides, then i'm not interested.

the same reason, i haven't cared to comment on cristiano ronaldo becoming real madrid's top scorer....it was something revered when our leading scorer had won multiple ucl's and league titles with the club, and defined the era...even raul too a ucl every other year at his prime for 3 years and two semis, and scoring in big moments. its almost embarrassing to have a top goal scorer at the club, yet live in barcelona's shadow. i want performances from all 3, not just stats. in this era of football, we've all been turned into mathematicians and research analysts because of stats

bale scored 4 goals the other day, now has 8 goals from 11 league games, and put the ball on his christmas tree....like really? if we are beating barca, and playing with conviction against tough teams in tough situations, then by all means stat pad; but it can't be too merry, when the team is getting slaughtered by barca (no i haven't gotten over it), and guys are treasuring the ball against almighty rayo.....santa please give us a big game performance for xmas. rant over. thank you all.

halamadrid2 wrote:@Sport, yet we finished higher than Atleti and Barca finished higher than us proves my point in its entireity

You do realize our only three la liga losses in the 2nd half of last season were to Valencia, Barca and Atleti, right?  How can you defend this ffs.  It's beyond obvious.  It's the only reason Carlo got fired...  we couldn't beat our rivals when it counted and we lost the league as a result. It had nothing to do with beating the lesser teams which we demolished.

@tito benzema scored a brace at bilbao and a goal at atleti, for some reasons these games are being overlooked, he scores against barca regularly as well, i don't see what he is doing that makes him not as good, fans call bale a goalscorer yet benzema is easily a better finisher than him, yet he get denied great #9 rep every season, with same reasoning from 2009 , remember everyone was so sure he couldn't play counter attack footy? most fans are straight denying his improvement as a 9 for the sake of it that is a fact.

i'm not into the debate of whether he is a great 9 or not, i only responded to your question on how our stats this season may not necessarily exonerate our players, even if they're impressive.....my main issue is winning. hell, i'd rather cristiano, bale and benzema score 20 goals in the season (not each) but combined and we win the treble, than for benzema to get 40, cristiano 50, and bale 45, and we finish empty handed with eggs on our faces and a new pique joke.

and if after so many years we only finish wit a league, a ucl and 2 measly king cups, i'd rather we just scrap this whole project. i'm very uninterested in cristiano's world domination pursuit, benzema's improvement as a 9, bale's search for his premier league talents, james' next beautiful goal, isco's dribbles. i want titles and playing with conviction when it matters most. i also want a good manager in the summer...all due respect to rafa, i don't think he's a long term solution.

@sport, it wouldnt have mattered if we beat them in the 2nd half of the season when we could only muster 4 points from Villarreal, Valencia, Bilbao, Sevilla away while Barca took them all. Not to mention the fact we threw away 3 points against LaReal in the first half of the season. Barca might have beat us in the 2nd half of the season but whats the difference between that and us beating them in the first half. I dont think Carlo relies on the away Clasico and Atleti game when he sets a goal because those are the big games that could go either way. The others on the other hand should be won or at least not lost. Barca won most of them whereas we lost most of them and thats why they won the league. Not because they beat us in the 2nd Clasico or whatever. They went on a run in the 2nd half of the season and we continually tripped up when we had the chance to catch up to them. In the end Barca deserved the title despite having a worse h2h than us

@tito, i can see the rage in your eyes from behind my screen But i completely agree with everything you said, especially the part about everything becoming more stats based these days with people looking at numbers rather than performances. As you said trophies are what defines great players not individual numbers and some of our players are obsessed with numbers even our CB Ramos for crying out loud, everytime we are cruising against a team he runs faster than Bolt to the opposition box to try and score instead of perfecting his main job which is to defend.

Tito is right in that we have some specialist stat padders in our team, and the table i posted the other day about the teams Bale is scoring against, highlight this even more. He is a stat padder like you have never seen, and his stats look very good. He hasnt score against a "good" team since 2014, let alone performed, it's absurd.

The value of Barca's attack is the fact that when pit against top opposition, their attackers consistently make the difference. It used to be just Messi for a while, now Neymar does it, has become a specialist at scoring vs pathetico, Suarez performs big time in CL and against us, and Messi continues to do it vs everyone.

It did not help that our players got injured again this season and that we have been tactically lost since the start of the year. But they did not perform so far, or at least losing games when it matters.

I don't think you can criticize Benzema for not showing up in big games... the only notable exceptions were Atleti (because they crowded the middle and we never attacked the flanks since our "wingers" don't play wide) and the last Barca game where he had just gotten back from a 2 month injury.  He's been our best big game player.

Barca's strikers perform because their TEAM always dominate possession and they always get their fair share of service regardless of the opposition.  Our strikers fail when our midfield gets overrun and they are isolated with very little to no service.

Barca beats people via their midfield dominance and fantastic team shape primarily, not their strikers.  The fact that they have elite strikers just adds salt to the wound since they take their chances efficiently obviously.  At least when they had Pedro and players of the same ilk, you felt that they would squander plenty of opportunities (which they did).  Now, they don't do that anymore.

@sportsczy, i'm not singling out only benzema nor cris nor bale, its the whole team. the midfield often get overlooked as stat padders because obviously their position isn't based on stats, but even them, when it comes to solid sides the midfield become so damn dull. saw it last season against juve, atleti etc...the only person i kind of excuse is modric, cos at times he tries so hard its like he's not getting any help. i'm not even going to talk about the defense....when marcelo starts looking like the smartest one out of that back 4, you know we really need some divine intervention (i like varane, but he needs to be given an assured spot and consistent games).

I only miss Di Maria, Ozil and Higuain always failed in the big matches, specially Higuain who continues failing in these matches with Argentina and Napoli

Welcome to the forum, we have been in die need of new blood.

For me Di Maria is the biggest miss at Madrid because he covered a lot of structural weaknesses the team had. That 433 that Madrid played in the latter half of the season in 13/14 was very good.

Adit wrote:Welcome to the forum, we have been in die need of new blood.

thanks, I'll try to post frequently, sorry If I make mistakes writing my english It isn't good enough

I keep telling everyone for YEARS that you build a team with the midfield first if you plan on being successful in La Liga and Europe...  you don't need to in EPL but Madrid isn't playing in EPL.  

The most dominant teams i've seen in my life all had dominant midfields and had systems that focused on controlling the middle of the pitch.

Madrid keeps selling its best midfielders for whatever reason... it's insane.