GAME OF THRONES - PART 7 - *NO BOOK TALK - READ THE RULES*

rincon wrote:One kid beasted his whole life and became lord commander of the Nights Watch. One kid became a badass faceless assassin. One kid became basically a time travelling, all-seeing demigod. Then there is Sansa who hasn't actually done anything positive in the entire story. Things either get handed to her, or they happen to her, and its mostly crap.

Sansa interned under the GOAT player of the game of thrones. Other than Jon she has the most applicable real world skills.

Can't go posting trailers without Alt Schwift X analyzing it

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

rincon wrote:One kid beasted his whole life and became lord commander of the Nights Watch. One kid became a badass faceless assassin. One kid became basically a time travelling, all-seeing demigod. Then there is Sansa who hasn't actually done anything positive in the entire story. Things either get handed to her, or they happen to her, and its mostly crap.

Sansa interned under the GOAT player of the game of thrones. Other than Jon she has the most applicable real world skills.

Any applicable skills don't really matter until she actually starts doing things. Broadly speaking, she is just an spectator who gets traded around and has things done to her (good and bad) just because of her names. She hasn't really made any positive decisions or moves of note.

She has done a lot of important things though, they are not as in your face as Arya murdering Walder Frey or Jon beating Ramsay in the Battle of the Bastards but she has done some positive things that helped House Stark get their home back / get revenge.

Admittedly her progression has been slow in King's Landing (for 4 seasons) but she has learned a lot there and has applied those skills since fleeing King's Landing. The decision to cover Littlefinger for Lysa Arryn's murder, discovering the truth about Bran and Rickon being still alive, making Jon fight for Winterfell, manipulating Littlefinger into fighting for the Starks etc...

rincon wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

rincon wrote:One kid beasted his whole life and became lord commander of the Nights Watch. One kid became a badass faceless assassin. One kid became basically a time travelling, all-seeing demigod. Then there is Sansa who hasn't actually done anything positive in the entire story. Things either get handed to her, or they happen to her, and its mostly crap.

Sansa interned under the GOAT player of the game of thrones. Other than Jon she has the most applicable real world skills.

Any applicable skills don't really matter until she actually starts doing things. Broadly speaking, she is just an spectator who gets traded around and has things done to her (good and bad) just because of her names. She hasn't really made any positive decisions or moves of note.

While Arya and Bran have done... ?

I think Sansa has learned from her experiences as a pawn, we'll see her take revenge on Petyr this season and who knows what else. I'm definitely expecting a political master stroke from her, would bring her full circle.

Arya has done a ton, one of the more active storylines. She basically crossed half of westeros and then the sea doing her thing. She even murdered the head of an important house now, plus who knows how many more people. Bran is one of the few people that is making moves towards having a fighting chance vs the white walkers. He basically has superpowers now.

Sansa? im not saying she won't be proactive in the coming season, but for 6 seasons she has been pawn. She didn't discover the truth about Bran and Rickon, Theon told her. Like most everything else in her story. She did convince Jon to fight for winterfell, and then she proceeded to hide the fact that she had access to another army to help out. If not for plot armor, that's the end Jon right there.

LeVersacci wrote:Hope Sansa dies tbh

^

rincon wrote:Arya has done a ton, one of the more active storylines. She basically crossed half of westeros and then the sea doing her thing. She even murdered the head of an important house now, plus who knows how many more people. Bran is one of the few people that is making moves towards having a fighting chance vs the white walkers. He basically has superpowers now.

Sansa? im not saying she won't be proactive in the coming season, but for 6 seasons she has been pawn. She didn't discover the truth about Bran and Rickon, Theon told her. Like most everything else in her story. She did convince Jon to fight for winterfell, and then she proceeded to hide the fact that she had access to another army to help out. If not for plot armor, that's the end Jon right there.

LeVersacci wrote:Hope Sansa dies tbh

^

Theon told her because she pushed him to do it, quite forcingly even. And Sansa told Jon to wait before attacking Winterfell but it was Jon's decision to attack immediately. He was impatient because he clearly doesn't regard life that much anymore, he even told Melisandre not to bring him back again.

It seems like you dislike Sansa, I mean she is not near one of my favourite characters and that's fine but discrediting everything she has done by using old arguments (she's a pawn) when she is even now manipulating the master of manipulations seems like lazy criticism to me.

Up until S4 I would 100% agree with you, but since leaving King's Landing and hanging out with Petyr Baelish she has really evolved a lot, she is not the little pawn anymore.

Why didn't she tell Jon about Littlefinger and the army? how does that fit into her master manipulation techniques?

Its terrible judgement.

I agree, but think it was down to bad writing (they wanted the twist at the end).

Also Arya has not done shit, other than killing Meryn Trant. Just like Sansa and Bran she has been in training this entire time. We'll see how it plays out.

She didn't tell Jon because she thought Ramsay would outplay Jon ("You don't know him like I do"). And he did end up outplaying Jon, all the plans they made before the battle where gone when Jon attacked the Bolton cavalry on his own.

Just think what would've happened if Sansa had told Jon about Littlefinger, they would join up, Ramsay would stay inside Winterfell now because of inferior numbers and taking Winterfell would've been 10x times harder with even more casualties, maybe impossible to take with the snows.

This doesn't add up.

She told him to attack Winterfell, then believed he would get outplayed, so instead of helping remedy the situation she hides Littlefinger's army?

For what purpose? to sacrifice her 2 brothers (Ricon and Jon) in order to maybe take Winterfell in the event that they get there in time?

So what happens then. She has no family and 0 supporters, as Jon's army would be decimated (and not loyal to her) and Littlefinger's army is loyal to him.

Instead, she could have trusted Jon with the information so he could plan accordingly. Having someone as smart as Littlefinger planning moves with you would give Jon/Sansa a big advantage.

The only reason this worked is because Jon was invincible and Littlefinger got there at the exact time, which is impossible to plan and account for.

Sansa's plan was this:

Plan A: Not attack while having inferior numbers, Jon wanted to attack with what ever they had.

Plan B: Surprise attack from the Vale while Jon is safely commanding his army and not fighting at the thick of a battle like a fool (but we love him for it).

Kill Ramsay and select either her or Jon as Warden/Wardeness of the North.

Which is pretty much what happened aside from Jon being pulled in the battle because of his recklessness, something which she really couldn't see because it was dumb from Jon's part. Sansa on the other hand had already given up on Rickon because she knew what kind of person Ramsay was.

Why does Jon need to not know about Littlefinger's army for either plan?

Because Sansa doesn't trust Jon to beat Ramsay. She has become distrustful of anyone really after everything she has gone through by trusting people. She takes things in her own hands now.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:I agree, but think it was down to bad writing (they wanted the twist at the end).

Also Arya has not done shit, other than killing Meryn Trant. Just like Sansa and Bran she has been in training this entire time. We'll see how it plays out.

This^^

BTW I don't think Sansa will be doing anything substantial (by that I meant taking revenge on Baelish). It will happen eventually but not this season. This season is basically the season for her to backstab Jon. LF is like a cockroach. Surely he will be among the last few people left in Westeros and will die only in the end.

urbaNRoots wrote:Because Sansa doesn't trust Jon to beat Ramsay. She has become distrustful of anyone really after everything she has gone through by trusting people. She takes things in her own hands now.

Sure, I believe that. Doesn't mean that it isn't terrible judgement.

Doesn't trust him to beat Ramsay yet asks him to attack. Doesn't trust Littlefinger yet accepts his help. Then she has the tools to actually help in the battle and doesn't do it.

99% this ends with Jon dead. There is no other reasonable outcome. So her distrust only leads to the man that has been playing her all along to win, and her only true ally to die. If not for plot armor.

Nothing grand about it. Its a terrible decision.

Have to agree with rincon here

rincon wrote:

urbaNRoots wrote:Because Sansa doesn't trust Jon to beat Ramsay. She has become distrustful of anyone really after everything she has gone through by trusting people. She takes things in her own hands now.

Sure, I believe that. Doesn't mean that it isn't terrible judgement.

Doesn't trust him to beat Ramsay yet asks him to attack. Doesn't trust Littlefinger yet accepts his help. Then she has the tools to actually help in the battle and doesn't do it.

99% this ends with Jon dead. There is no other reasonable outcome. So her distrust only leads to the man that has been playing her all along to win, and her only true ally to die. If not for plot armor.

Nothing grand about it. Its a terrible decision.

It wasn't terrible judgement though, Jon got played by Ramsay and Sansa was smart enough to see that beforehand.

The fact that Jon risked his life by attacking the Bolton cavalry on his own is not something that can be foreseen because commanders are supposed to stay behind and command their armies (like Ramsay did). Sansa did not risk Jon's life, Jon did.

Agree with BC here. It was actually bad writing to induce twist in the plot. Made Sansa look like fool though.

Absolutely. I thought that was obvious. Its this mindless tweaking by the show writers to induce more suspense.
Sansa indeed had a plan, so she wasnt useless per se.

Eventhough I dont like Sansa, I sympathize with her. Other Stark siblings always got to do the cool things where as she was always a prop until ofc she met LF. Can't really see where her arc is going tbh. In the grand scheme of things what role would someone like Sansa play? Kinda makes her unpredictable cos of that. Hopefully she surprise us.

urbaNRoots wrote:Because Sansa doesn't trust Jon to beat Ramsay. She has become distrustful of anyone really after everything she has gone through by trusting people. She takes things in her own hands now.

She should've done so by becoming queen in the north but ofc we know why she couldn't do that (:

To be honest I was pleasantly surprised when the lords of the North selected Jon as their king. I really thought Sansa would become queen/wardeness and Jon some kind of war general until his true identity is revealed. Now I don't even know where her character is going... ok she will probably take Littlefinger down but what next.

I would actually prefer if she became really bitter about the North selecting Jon as king and fully joining with Littlefinger, get the leaderless Riverlands and fight for the Throne. That way Littlefinger gets what he wants and Sansa becomes the "more beautiful queen" that Cersei fears.

Started rewatching, at 107 now.

Forgot how annoyingly naive Ned Stark was

Amazing character to set up the entire universe and the scheming.

Giant Hodor penis

Wildling girl Mirin

Ned Stark is still influencing characters and plots from the grave, still my favourite

Emilia Clarke is a painfully bad actress