Build Up: Pogba to United

No we have plenty of 10s.  That's not the issue.  Marcelo and Ronaldo don't defend so we need someone that can do the work defensively on the left while contributing to the attack.  Di Maria did that for us the one year we were truly balanced.  If you didn't have Marcelo/Ronaldo to completely mess up that side defensively, i'd agree with you.

That's why I'm adamant about Pogba.  He's about the only guy other than Di Maria (in a different way) that can bring speed, good enough defense, work rate and attacking flair on that left side to compensate.

Right now, Casemiro is basically a 3rd CB because Ramos is basically a LB (poor one) with Marcelo/Ronaldo/Kroos out there. We're messed up because of the left side tbh. You need a freak athlete out there so the entire team isn't forced to compensate

We defend good enough, I think Zidane has already said what is wrong with the team and what they need to work on.

I just think we need to replace Kroos I don't think he's as good as some think he is. Veratti is better.

On a second note, I'm starting to agree with Zidane alot more. I think the team is hard to improve and putting 100m on Pogba who is unproven is a risk.

I can see Juve keeping Pogba this year.

2 reasons why this is dragging on right now could be
1. Cos its a weekend. Transfers especially big transfers wont get announced on weekends.
2. Cos its a transfer deal like never before. 20 mil in agent fee alone. Ever seen something like that before ? Could be mightily complicated, the paperwork and everything.

Unless and until Mehdrid decide to avenge us for the ddg saga of last season, I can see an announcement Monday or Tuesday or max by Friday. Jose wont hang around even if Raiola is intending on dragging this further. He will make us get Matuidi if so. With Jose at the helm I think I am much more confident. If it was Moyes instead, lol... then ya. One way or the other this shit will/should be resolved soon.

sportsczy wrote:No we have plenty of 10s.  That's not the issue.  Marcelo and Ronaldo don't defend so we need someone that can do the work defensively on the left while contributing to the attack.  Di Maria did that for us the one year we were truly balanced.  If you didn't have Marcelo/Ronaldo to completely mess up that side defensively, i'd agree with you.

That's why I'm adamant about Pogba.  He's about the only guy other than Di Maria (in a different way) that can bring speed, good enough defense, work rate and attacking flair on that left side to compensate.

Right now, Casemiro is basically a 3rd CB because Ramos is basically a LB (poor one) with Marcelo/Ronaldo/Kroos out there.  We're messed up because of the left side tbh.  You need a freak athlete out there so the entire team isn't forced to compensate

I can see that, especially when you consider that Marcelo will push high and wide, and Ronaldo will (always) move into central areas in possession. With that in mind, getting someone who can contribute in both halves of the pitch makes perfect sense. In that respect, I understand adding Pogba.

The only place I would disagree (to an extent) is that you have enough #10s to cover the role. Rodriguez and Isco are, of course, high-quality #10s. However, they've always seemed more comfortable as a traditional #10 (or at least in an attacking-mid role), sitting behind the striker in a 4-2-3-1/4-4-1-1. I'm not convinced they'd be good in the 3-man midfield that you're describing. That said, Zidane, may never use them as such, choosing instead to make a tactical change in order to accommodate them.

sportsczy wrote:No we have plenty of 10s.  That's not the issue.  Marcelo and Ronaldo don't defend so we need someone that can do the work defensively on the left while contributing to the attack.  Di Maria did that for us the one year we were truly balanced.  If you didn't have Marcelo/Ronaldo to completely mess up that side defensively, i'd agree with you.

That's why I'm adamant about Pogba.  He's about the only guy other than Di Maria (in a different way) that can bring speed, good enough defense, work rate and attacking flair on that left side to compensate.

Right now, Casemiro is basically a 3rd CB because Ramos is basically a LB (poor one) with Marcelo/Ronaldo/Kroos out there. We're messed up because of the left side tbh. You need a freak athlete out there so the entire team isn't forced to compensate

Since when is Pogba a runner that can cover 2-3 positions a la Di Maria or Rakitic? He's an attacking b2b midfielder. If he has a solid defensive system behind him and freedom to attack he is amazing. If not you will be wasting him and he won't be performing very well.

Can someone enlighten me why sports is now going on one of his typically rambling and fantasto-constructivist posting sprees about what role Pogba will play in Real's lineup?
It is becoming increasingly bizarre. The kid has signed for United

Come on... Evra is not exactly great defensively (and neither was Asamaoh before him). You had Pogba track back into his lap almost every time and Chielinni peak in from the center.

Di Maria wasn't great defensively btw. But he did run back and get in the way... which is exactly what Pogba does with the exception that Pogba does muscle people off the ball.

Newsflash Hans... this is a message board.  We speculate, discuss the speculation and project what would happen if such speculation came to pass.  That's the point of a place like this.  It isn't Reuters.

I understand Bayern isn't involved in any big transfers right now so there's nothing to speculate about for your club. But both Madrid and Man U are being talked about in regards to big transfers so we do have something to talk about lol.

True. And don't let me stop you. In fact I love your posts. I just wonder why.

I'd like to point out before going any further that I respect United as a club and institution in world football, and that I certainly don't want to offend anyone by what I'm about to say, especially the United fans on GL.

However, I think, and I could be wrong (in which case I apologize in advance), that the only reason Real Madrid is being rumored to be interested in Pogba, particularly by the English media, is to gloat later about them failing to sign him and "losing to Manchester United", thus allowing the latter to "get back" at Madrid for the times they came after their best players.

I still think (which again, could be wrong) that Real Madrid is yet to sit down with Juventus at the negotiation table, that Perez is not interested in Pogba, never was, and probably never will, and that United is the only club in the Pogba race.

The Demon of Carthage wrote:I'd like to point out before going any further that I respect United as a club and institution in world football, and that I certainly don't want to offend anyone by what I'm about to say, especially the United fans on GL.

However, I think, and I could be wrong (in which case I apologize in advance), that the only reason Real Madrid is being rumored to be interested in Pogba, particularly by the English media, is to gloat later about them failing to sign him and "losing to Manchester United", thus allowing the latter to "get back" at Madrid for the times they came after their best players.

I still think (which again, could be wrong) that Real Madrid is yet to sit down with Juventus at the negotiation table, that Perez is not interested in Pogba, never was, and probably never will, and that United is the only club in the Pogba race.

I agree with you.

Just to clarify I did not say that Pogba is unproven. I do think though that he has not yet done enough to justify this kind of mind numbing hype.

DoC... our transfer director (Sanchez) already had two face-to-face meeting with Raiola (reported by media with pictures of the two together no less).

Pretty clear we wanted him. But, as Bill said, we're not going to pay anyone 13 mil net + 50% of their image rights. We don't even do that for Ronaldo or Bale. Given that Pogba's image rights are currently valued at 15 mil per annum... He's going to make 13 mil net and another 7 mil gross. On top of that, reports have surfaced that the reason Raiola's fee is so high is that Pogba also gets a percentage of that (they say 50%). AND he also gets performance related bonuses too like winning EPL and CL, being named best player in EPL, top 3 BdO, etc.

It's such a crazy personal deal for him. Sets Pogba up for life and then some in one shot.

messixaviesta wrote:Just to clarify I did not say that Pogba is unproven. I do think though that he has not yet done enough to justify this kind of mind numbing hype.

And Bale, Neymar and Martial did?  Neymar hadn't even played in Europe.  Martial hadn't even played period basically .

When you compare achievements and experience in a top club, Pogba is miles ahead of what those guys were when they got bought. Remember that he went to a club with a midfield trio of Vidal/Pirlo/Marchisio and basically benched Marchisio after one year. Pirlo got injured/left and same with Vidal... so Marchisio wasn't forced to move (thankfully for Juve). But that's not just beating out a good player. Marchisio is WC to me.

Don't ever compare an insane talent like Neymar to Pogba

Valkyrja wrote:Don't ever compare an insane talent like Neymar to Pogba

Word.

Its basically done. This done. United playing right now and MUTV commentators and presenters are openly talking about it. They wouldnt be doing that if not. Even mentioned his name.

sportsczy wrote:

messixaviesta wrote:Just to clarify I did not say that Pogba is unproven. I do think though that he has not yet done enough to justify this kind of mind numbing hype.

And Bale, Neymar and Martial did?  Neymar hadn't even played in Europe.  Martial hadn't even played period basically .

When you compare achievements and experience in a top club, Pogba is miles ahead of what those guys were when they got bought.  Remember that he went to a club with a midfield trio of Vidal/Pirlo/Marchisio and basically benched Marchisio after one year.  Pirlo got injured/left and same with Vidal...  so Marchisio wasn't forced to move (thankfully for Juve).  But that's not just beating out a good player.  Marchisio is WC to me.

Martial - I don't think the word hype can be used for him. The world was mostly shocked when his transfer happened.

Bale - He had become almost a one man team at Spurs and they were getting some good results. Still think the hype was less than this.

Neymar - Was a prodigy from a very young age. As far back as 2010 when he was not included in the world cup squad there was an uproar. Shone in the Copa Libertadores after that and then was the best player at Confed 2013.

I think forwards by default get much more hype. So a better comparison would be midfielders. Why did Fabregas, Silva and Ozil never get this kind of hype? Is it height, strength and power that is making so much of a difference? Which games can you think of in which Pogba gave man of the match performances against top quality opposition?

Max Allegri says he will discuss this matter with the club hierarchy on Tuesday. Does that mean no deal will be done before that?

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/694939/Paul-Pogba-Juventus-Manchester-United-MUFC-Transfer-News-Rumours-Gossip

http://www.joe.co.uk/sport/paul-pogba-is-either-signing-for-manchester-united-or-this-is-a-very-cruel-joke/76469

Every single Galactico we've signed under Florentino's presidency saw the latter personally oversee the negotiations from start to finish while publicly stating his desire to sign them.

With Pogba, Flo couldn't possibly be more aloof. José Ángel Sánchez might've met with Raiola, but so did Barça and a myriad of other clubs. It just shows that we might've been interested but the interest faded away and couldn't materialize into official negotiations. And when I say "official negotiations" I mean the representatives of both clubs, in the presence of Flo, sitting down for countless times to try and strike a deal. Like we did with Bale.

So far, we still haven't started official negotiations with them. United has, and are very close to signing him, if they haven't already. If we were seriously interested in him, we would've already done something to prevent the United deal from happening. Florentino would never let a player he likes slips away through his fingers without a fight. In Pogba's case, he didn't even bother to lift one finger.

As for Martial, Neymar and Bale, here's my take on it:

1. Martial: there was zero hype about him, everybody, including United fans were shocked they paid that much for him.

2. Neymar: you would be mistaken to compare Pogba to the Brazilian. Neymar even at a tender age was a sensation, extremely talented and a marketing gold mine. Florentino didn't waste a second to try and get him, outbidding Barça in the process and publicly expressing his desire to get him.

3. Bale: A Two-time PFA player of the year (beating Suarez to the trophy), while single-handedly carrying Tottenham to CL football through amazing, consistent memorable performances, and murdering treble-winner Inter all by himself. And even then, I thought he was overhyped and didn't deserve that price tag.

Pogba didn't even do half what Neymar and Bale did before they signed for Madrid and Barça, nor is he even worth half the hype those two had at the time. He's definitely talented, but I'm still yet to see one ground-breaking performance from him, one that would convince me that he's even worth 60m.

He basically flopped at the two biggest games of his career: CL final with Juventus against Barça, and Euro final with France against Portugal.

Once again, I'm not denying his talent, I'm just saying that he's nowhere near the hype he's getting, and as things stand, he's absolutely in no position to demand 13m a year. He's a midfielder not a forward, and he's the furthest from being a game changer.

messixaviesta wrote:

sportsczy wrote:

messixaviesta wrote:Just to clarify I did not say that Pogba is unproven. I do think though that he has not yet done enough to justify this kind of mind numbing hype.

And Bale, Neymar and Martial did?  Neymar hadn't even played in Europe.  Martial hadn't even played period basically .

When you compare achievements and experience in a top club, Pogba is miles ahead of what those guys were when they got bought.  Remember that he went to a club with a midfield trio of Vidal/Pirlo/Marchisio and basically benched Marchisio after one year.  Pirlo got injured/left and same with Vidal...  so Marchisio wasn't forced to move (thankfully for Juve).  But that's not just beating out a good player.  Marchisio is WC to me.

Martial - I don't think the word hype can be used for him. The world was mostly shocked when his transfer happened.

Bale - He had become almost a one man team at Spurs and they were getting some good results. Still think the hype was less than this.

Neymar - Was a prodigy from a very young age. As far back as 2010 when he was not included in the world cup squad there was an uproar. Shone in the Copa Libertadores after that and then was the best player at Confed 2013.

I think forwards by default get much more hype. So a better comparison would be midfielders. Why did Fabregas, Silva and Ozil never get this kind of hype? Is it height, strength and power that is making so much of a difference? Which games can you think of in which Pogba gave man of the match performances against top quality opposition?

Ozil is a much better player. Not only more proven on the biggest stage but also a much more talented footballer overall. Can't think of a current player that can spot a runner faster and easier than him. The likes of Messi, James come close though.

messixaviesta wrote:

I think forwards by default get much more hype. So a better comparison would be midfielders. Why did Fabregas, Silva and Ozil never get this kind of hype? Is it height, strength and power that is making so much of a difference? Which games can you think of in which Pogba gave man of the match performances against top quality opposition?

I have seen countless people asking this exact same question. Which big games can anyone say Pogba was clear motm and played like a 120 million player? No body knows.

Adit wrote:

messixaviesta wrote:

I think forwards by default get much more hype. So a better comparison would be midfielders. Why did Fabregas, Silva and Ozil never get this kind of hype? Is it height, strength and power that is making so much of a difference? Which games can you think of in which Pogba gave man of the match performances against top quality opposition?

I have seen countless people asking this exact same question. Which big games can anyone say Pogba was clear motm and played like a 120 million player? No body knows.

It's classic case of "The Cheerleader effect" as explained by the legendary Barney Stinson where if you look at the gruop of chics u think they all are hot but as you zoom on each one by one u realize u were wrong.