Re: Paul Pogba, the biggest fraud of our time?

by Unique Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:30 am

sportsczy wrote:I'm not sure how Mourinho wants him to play... it looks confusing to me and it has to be confusing to Pogba. He doesn't have a well enough defined role. From what I can tell, he is asked to do whatever the others can't do... and that's too much given the lack of talent at CM other than Pogba.

Define a proper role for the guy and then see if he can shine at it.

what roll would you give him

by Firenze Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:37 am

anything but ham or bacon, since he's a muslim

by Unique Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:40 am

Firenze wrote:anything but ham or bacon, since he's a muslim

by Luca Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:42 am

Pogba has never been a stat sheet filler though. He's like a 10 goal/10 assist type player on a great season. Similar to a Xavi/Iniesta/Pirlo type (strictly statistically speaking).

He definitely needs to be in a midfield 3, alongside some quality players and at least one that can cover for him defensively. It's a new team, system and league, but he's definitely not lived up to expectations- not that any player can at that cost.

Anyways, he represents a great investment and I wouldn't ever worry about a player with his level of talent. Manchester United will not win the league this season, even if Pogba had a ballon d'or type season it wouldn't happen. They'll be happy to qualify for the CL and improve again next season. It's a long term set up for Paul in Manchester Molenation

by sportsczy Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:45 am

Unique wrote:
sportsczy wrote:I'm not sure how Mourinho wants him to play... it looks confusing to me and it has to be confusing to Pogba. He doesn't have a well enough defined role. From what I can tell, he is asked to do whatever the others can't do... and that's too much given the lack of talent at CM other than Pogba.

Define a proper role for the guy and then see if he can shine at it.
what roll would you give him

Either have him play the top of a 3-man mid up front (quasi-10 role) or a B2B or a holding mid. Right now, he's sometimes a holding mid, sometimes an attacking mid and sometime a B2B.

Pick one. Define his role better. Juve already attempted to have him roam briefly to start last season and it didn't work either. A roaming 10 to be exact. They quickly reverted back to his preferred B2B spot and he went right back to being Pogboom.

Why reinvent the wheel? Especially experimenting with things that have previously failed no less.

In a way, Pogba doesn't want to play a defensive role. Instead of complaining about it, he just goes through the motions so a manager sees that he's not motivated playing that spot. He puts in the effort there on NT... because it's NT. But he has no intention of being pigeon-holed into that with club.

by sportsczy Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:51 am

Mourinho has a way of making great players look average btw, especially in midfield... happened at Madrid with Modric (not to mention Xabi Alonso too to a certain extent). Then Matic at Chelsea. Now Pogba at Man U.

He has set ideas and he feels that players need to adapt to him. Well, very good players won't sacrifice like that. They want the manager to adapt to them.

by CBarca Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:57 am

Deserves more than one season before I properly judge.

He hasn't been very good though. He's been inconsistently quality...But very inconsistent. Well, more like consistently shite.

But I'll give him another year before I call him a fraud.

by Turok_TTZ Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:36 am

CBarca wrote:Deserves more than one season before I properly judge.

He hasn't been very good though. He's been inconsistently quality...But very inconsistent. Well, more like consistently shite.

But I'll give him another year before I call him a fraud.

That's not fair, he is playing under Mourinho after all...

My personal opinion is that Mourinho is currently ruining pogba atm.

by CBarca Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:48 am

People have been calling him a fraud all season and me saying he deserves another season before I call him a fraud is unfair? hmm

I understand his situation. Often times it can take a season at least to get acclimated, which is why I always give the player a season free before I judge them. I did it with Fabregas at Barca too.

That being said, if he fails to produce next year I don't care who he's playing under, he's clearly flopped. Yes the manager is important as are the tactics, but if you cost as much as Pogba has you better produce by your second year. He better not be performing like he has done this season. You can't blame 7 dispossessions (did it end up being more? Laughing

) on tactics. That's just poor play. Next season there are no more excuses. We'll see if he shows up.

by Harmonica Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:37 am

Welcome to Barcelona, Gomes plus Iniesta swap?

by Turok_TTZ Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:50 am

CBarca wrote:People have been calling him a fraud all season and me saying he deserves another season before I call him a fraud is unfair?

I understand his situation. Often times it can take a season at least to get acclimated, which is why I always give the player a season free before I judge them. I did it with Fabregas at Barca too.

That being said, if he fails to produce next year I don't care who he's playing under, he's clearly flopped. Yes the manager is important as are the tactics, but if you cost as much as Pogba has you better produce by your second year. He better not be performing like he has done this season. You can't blame 7 dispossessions (did it end up being more? ) on tactics. That's just poor play. Next season there are no more excuses. We'll see if he shows up.

You say that but Mourinho don't know how to use midfielders properly. Pogba playing out of his element. Though I do agree Pogba should be doing better.

by rincon Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:37 am

Unique wrote:
rincon wrote:This is the most ridiculous delusion thrown around.

Leicester City won the title last year

That's how shit the teams are. Leicester had like a 10 point gap.

now Chelsea has a 10 point gap.

dat competitiveness
Leicester did not have a 10 point gap when they won the title. but my point is and it is a fact the champions of England will have harder games against the lower teams than the champions of france. Italy. spain. Germany and Holland. I admit that juve. barca. madrid. psg and Bayern are better than Chelsea. but in England Chelsea will have to work harder to win the title than the winners of the other lges.

Yes they did hmm

They had 81 points over Arsenal's 71. That's how much nonsense this whole "competitive' thing is. Shit teams are winning by large margins in england. If there is any competition is because all the teams are inconsistent as hell except the runaway winner. Put Bayern, Juve or Madrid in the PL and they annihilate the league. Simple as that. Is not that lower teams are better in england, its that top teams are worst.

by free_cat Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:30 am

What you guys are on? Pogba has clearly been one of the best midfielders in England.

If you don't want him, jus resell him like you did with Di Maria. Plenty of people (hopefully Barça) will take the "fraud" gladly.

People is obsessed with stats, if Pogba doesn't score and assist in double digits like did in previous seasons, he is suddenly a "fraud" and a failure.

by Mr Nick09 Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:27 pm

Are you saying that a player that signed a big contract aka chase money in spite of European greatness, is shooting commercials every other week, trying to launch his own brand under adidas is not performing like an elite player in big games despite being the most expensive player of all time?

Im shocked

by Jay29 Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:29 pm

All this talk of needing to define a role for Pogba reminds of Ramsey. They have all the qualities you want in a midfielder but neither can play as a 6 or a 10 on a consistent basis. They have to play a role that blends everything together but in their respective teams there's no place for that role.

Whenever I watch Pogba though I get the impression that this is a guy who can do everything but just doesn't do it, for whatever reason. Like he doesn't commit to whatever role he's been placed in. Nor does he seem to take command in games.

Maybe that'll improve with age, but right now it seems a mix of confusion over his role in the team and mentality are dragging down his performances.

by rincon Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:57 pm

Jay nailed it.

by Harmonica Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:21 pm

Yeah, whoscored lists Pogba as the best cm of premier league, 3rd overall not far from 1st. What a dud, Gomes+Iniesta+Mascherano should be enough for a dud?

by BarcaLearning Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:26 pm

I said it last season he was overrated, not that hes not one of the most talented and a top all rounder, but hes not yet still able to command a game or always make the difference, maybe thats asking too much, and he definitely isnt a fraud.

Just expectations vs reality, interesting no manager yet still able to extract the absolute best out of him, or maybe hes just that type of player, good in everything, but perhaps need to refine and improve in order to become the best in something.

by Lucifer Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:33 pm

Harmonica wrote:Yeah, whoscored lists Pogba as the best cm of premier league, 3rd overall not far from 1st. What a dud, Gomes+Iniesta+Mascherano should be enough for a dud?

Ain't nobody taking Gomes from us, not even Chinese.

by jibers Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:44 pm

No Mourinho is just a reactive negative pos. Pogba should have stayed at Juve but trilling your wages is too good an opportunity for anyone despite us 'attacking' according to the commentators last night Chelsea created all the best chances before Herrera sending off.

I actually fear for our club atm.

by sportsczy Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:50 pm

Pogba's best role is clear as day. He's a B2B. It's when managers want to make him into something else that he struggles. Just let him play the left side B2B and be done with it.

Problem with Man U is that even being OK at CM and deep playing mid is better than the other CMs. Complete lack of quality there. So Mourinho would rather play a winger as opposed to a B2B and play Pogba in a position he's uncomfortable in... because even so, he's better at it than the other guys.

I agree he should have never gone to Man U because Man U are utter crap in terms of talent. Also, he should have known that Mourinho would play him in a weird way. Mou does crap like that when he's looking to compensate. Heck, he tried making Ozil into a CM, Di Maria was a right side winger, etc. Only Ronaldo got his way because he feuded with Mourinho and Flo had his back.

by rincon Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:56 pm

sportsczy wrote:Jay nailed it?

Pogba's best role is clear as day. He's a B2B. It's when managers want to make him into something else that he struggles. Just let him play the left side B2B and be done with it.

Problem with Man U is that even being OK at CM and deep playing mid is better than the other CMs. Complete lack of quality there. So Mourinho would rather play a winger as opposed to a B2B and play Pogba in a position he's uncomfortable in... because even so, he's better at it than the other guys.

I agree he should have never gone to Man U because Man U are utter crap in terms of talent. Also, he should have known that Mourinho would play him in a weird way. Mou does crap like that when he's looking to compensate. Heck, he tried making Ozil into a CM, Di Maria was a right side winger, etc. Only Ronaldo got his way because he feuded with Mourinho and Flo had his back.

What are you freaking out about? this is exactly what Jay said just much less eloquent.

He said that Pogba is not a 10 nor 6, he is right. That he needs a role that blends the two together (B2B!) but that his team has no room for it.

He is also right that Pogba can do everything but he doesn't, for whatever reason. And that maybe he'll change with age.

:facepalm:

by rincon Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:59 pm

BarcaLearning wrote:I said it last season he was overrated, not that hes not one of the most talented and a top all rounder, but hes not yet still able to command a game or always make the difference, maybe thats asking too much, and he definitely isnt a fraud.

Just expectations vs reality, interesting no manager yet still able to extract the absolute best out of him, or maybe hes just that type of player, good in everything, but perhaps need to refine and improve in order to become the best in something.

What is this? Conte and Allegri don't count?

by sportsczy Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:01 pm

ok sorry Jay. My bad Laughing

by jibers Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:18 pm

rincon wrote:
BarcaLearning wrote:I said it last season he was overrated, not that hes not one of the most talented and a top all rounder, but hes not yet still able to command a game or always make the difference, maybe thats asking too much, and he definitely isnt a fraud.

Just expectations vs reality, interesting no manager yet still able to extract the absolute best out of him, or maybe hes just that type of player, good in everything, but perhaps need to refine and improve in order to become the best in something.

What is this? Conte and Allegri don't count?

Why do you even bother responding Laughing

You're wasting energy lol

He's probably never seen Pogba play in his life

by jibers Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:19 pm

Pogba isn't a #6 or #10....

Maybe...just maybe he might be a #8.... hmm

Not difficult here people Laughing

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