Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

[rincon]

Tbh for me it wasn't much of a choice. I was a fan of the NT before I was a fan of a club. My family used to watch every NT game together, WC '98 was the first football competition that I remember from start to finish. After that it was also Serie A with Juve (as the family are fans as well), before I watched it too (as we did every weekend) but I don't remember them in all the detail.

NT football>>>club. It's always more passionate for me, a matter of preference.

[Luca]

The Bonucci downfall is mainly banter. There are plenty of players who are awesome with their clubs and average with the national team. There are even players who are average with their club but perform well with the national team.

I don't find it so strange. And besides, Ventura could have Totti, Paolo Rossi, Tardelli, Maldini and Nesta all in their prime and probably find a way to still struggle, it is just the current state of the national side.

It's not like anyone wants Bonucci or Italy to fail when he's wearing an Italy shirt. But when he's wearing that Milan jersey and playing for Montella, it's pure banter, all the time.

Also, robes, what do you mean you're the only Italian one? As in you're the only one actually from Italy? I resent that

[rincon]

I'm with Luca, I don't know his background but if Eder and Rossi are Italian then he probably is too, as am I

[Luca]

I'm with Luca, I don't know his background but if Eder and Rossi are Italian then he probably is too, as am I

I'm born in Canada, my parents, their parents and beyond are from Calabria

[Robespierre]

^ Guys I meant " the only one to live in Italy " , but I am lazy and it was long to write it.
Now I did it (:

[Luca]

^ Guys I meant " the only one to live in Italy " , but I am lazy and it was long to write it.
Now I did it (:

Its alright brother robes, I figured that's what you meant.

Do you live in Milano? Just curious

Drop points to Sampdoria today so that @rincon and I will forgive you

[Robespierre]

No I live in Centre Italy

[S]

Don't see what was wrong in what Robespierre said

Both of you are Canadians/Americans/whatever of Italian origin. If not for football, I don't think both of you would've been as patriotic about your Italian Nationality. For everything else it's Canadian or American but when it comes to football  , 'I'm Italian'. In general, I'm not sure where these European born North Americans would stand had the continent been a football powerhouse.

I mean look at Argentinians and Brazilians who are also mostly of European descent but do you see them cheering for European NT's and claiming they are Italian or Spanish?

Just an observation. Now come at me guys

[Luca]

Don't see what was wrong in what Robespierre said

Both of you are Canadians/Americans/whatever of Italian origin. If not for football, I don't think both of you would've been as patriotic about your Italian Nationality. For everything else it's Canadian or American but when it comes to football  , 'I'm Italian'. In general, I'm not sure where these European born North Americans would stand had the continent been a football powerhouse.

I mean look at Argentinians and Brazilians who are also mostly of European descent but do you see them cheering for European NT's and claiming they are Italian or Spanish?

Just an observation. Now come at me guys

Maybe for other countries but Canada is the most multicultural place on Earth and while I can't speak for other households, that isn't how I was raised. For me, it is a very proud thing to be Italian and more so to be Italian in Canada.

Its a lot bigger than sport.

On the other hand, there are many people I know here who only become Italian when the World Cup is on. They don't watch qualifiers or friendlies, they don't follow a club. They don't suffer with robes and I while we watch Ventura draw with Macedonia in Torino.

Not everyone cares about the sport like us who post here, we are the fanatics and the enthusiasts and the sport can be the great connector and equalizer between people of immense differences. Being Italian is more than liking Juventus or watching the national side. Its a culture, one of great history and one I wouldn't be the same person without

[breva]

I live in both the U.S. and Italy, I was born in Italy (Tuscany) and our home is in the province of Pisa in a town called Tirrenia. I am a dual citizen because my father was a U.S. serviceman (who married my Italian mother) stationed in Italy when I was born. Pisa is also my official residence as stated on my ID card (carta d'identita'). I have always supported the Italian national team, not the U.S. national team and an Italian club.

[rincon]

Don't see what was wrong in what Robespierre said

Both of you are Canadians/Americans/whatever of Italian origin. If not for football, I don't think both of you would've been as patriotic about your Italian Nationality. For everything else it's Canadian or American but when it comes to football  , 'I'm Italian'. In general, I'm not sure where these European born North Americans would stand had the continent been a football powerhouse.

I mean look at Argentinians and Brazilians who are also mostly of European descent but do you see them cheering for European NT's and claiming they are Italian or Spanish?

Just an observation. Now come at me guys

This has simply no backing at all. Just how I said I don't know Lucas background, you don't know mine, or his, or anyone else's.

Football is a passion independent of others. Being a fan of a football team doesn't mean it has a correlation to another aspect of life. Should I tell my mom that I don't care about the heritage she gave me raising me as she did? Or to my grandma who didn't speak Spanish but Italian? Or more officially, should I ask for a different passport as mine says "passaporto"? Life is more complicated than jumping on a football bandwagon. But we are on a football forum so that's what is relevant here

When I have kids they will have my mixed heritage, and my wife will likely be of a different one (my gf is scanfinavian) and they will likely be born in neither of our countries. They will have a hell of a time figuring out that identity but there doesn't need to fixed impositions, everyone gets to grow as they feel.

[Warrior]

Canada's NT is worse than diarrhea, can't blame Luca for being 100% behind La Nazionale.

[Kaladin]

Not like Italy's NT is anything special, has been ass for years, last decent run was under Prandelli at the Euros. You can already Ventura crashing out of the groups if you squint

[Warrior]

Is it possible that ital-canadians have two identities ? Public identity that would be mainly canadian while private identity would be a mix of both cultures ?

Things such as art, sports, cinema will exacerbate the italian identity in the private sphere, because for agreed social reasons it is mostly absent in the public life. So when it comes to football italian community regroups itself and feels more related to Italy than Canada.

[breva]

Not like Italy's NT is anything special, has been ass for years, last decent run was under Prandelli at the Euros. You can already Ventura crashing out of the groups if you squint

Admittedly, this Italian National Team is wanting, but, it depends what you mean when you say years. Italy won it's fourth WC 11 years ago. When did Brazil or Argentina or France last win a WC, and the great Spain, how many WCs have they won? This constant denigration of Italy gets on my nerves.

[Hapless_Hans]

I was born in Italy (Tuscany) and our home is in the province of Pisa in a town called Tirrenia.

Unbelievably beautiful spot on our earth. Congratulations.

[juve_gigi]

I am also a dual citizen. My parents were born and raised in Salerno and I was born in Vancouver. I watched the World Cup in 1982 at my Zia's house in Milano with my cousin and watched Italia win the World Cup in Italia so ever since then I was hooked on La Nazionale.

In Vancouver when the World Cup comes there are lots of Italian fanatics here. Alot of older people as well like my parents who are still alive and go to little Italy on Commercial Drive in Vancouver and watch the games at an Italian bar. Everyone in the bar is speaking Italian so you feel like you are in a bar in southern Italy. Everyone has their Italia jersey on, kids have their faces painted on La Nazionale colors.

I feel more Italian than Canadian really. When I go out with the boys (most of my guy friends are Italian), we actually go to Italian restaurants and speak Italian to each other. My friend who is a Milanista actually speaks fluent Italian and travels to Rome every year. He lived in Italia for 13 years after his parents divorced and his mom moved back to Italia for 13 years. He feels more Italian than Canadian. I don't think he has ever watched a Canadian soccer game ever, not even the Vancouver Whitecaps.

Anyways, Italian Calcio is a passion for me, I watch it like I watch hockey really, but I can understand that alot of Italians born in Canada don't feel the same way. Alot of them don't even speak Italian or eat Italian food, so they are mostly Canadian to me. We call them "mangia cakes".

[S]

Interesting viewpoints. Luca says he was raised as an Italian with Italian ethos, tradition etc so I take it he identifies more with Italy than Canada ?

The question I posed was purely hypothetical and in total relation to football as opposed to personal identity. I was just wondering if North America had a thriving footballing culture like Europe, would they still cheer for their ancestors or their own nation's NT. This is purely hypothetical that is left to be unanswered. On the contrary I suppose most South Americans don't share their allegiance to European teams regardless of their ancestral roots.

It was not particularly aimed at you people but I've seen American people conveniently switching their nationalities, chest thumping about their European ancestry  when the WC or other big events comes around  just so it makes it more 'legit'.

Also from my observation, it seems Italians are more nationalistic than the other big European nations so all the Italians who reside in North America today are more likely to identify with their ancestry first and then their country of birth. Does that make sense ? Is it just my illusion ? I'm just curious. I've seen nationalistic traits more in the Italians than the other Europeans.

[breva]

I was born in Italy (Tuscany) and our home is in the province of Pisa in a town called Tirrenia.

Unbelievably beautiful spot on our earth. Congratulations.

Yes, we do like where we live. My wife especially.

[juve_gigi]

I think the biggest thing is if you were born in Brazil or Argentina and you are Italian and you start to watch soccer down there then it is easier to become a fan of your country that you live in and consequently you identify as that country. When you are watching Messi or Maradona or Neymar or Ronaldo it is much easier to identify yourself as Argentinean or Brazilian than if you are watching some schmuck play on the Canadian national team that you've never heard of before. In Canada and the US it's different because soccer is not one of the main sports here and for the most part our national teams suck. To be honest I can't even name one player on the Canadian national soccer team whereas I can name the entire La Nazionale roster off the top of my head. You can't even watch Serie A unless you have RAI sports channel or you stream it. But Canadian hockey, football and even the American sports are readily available 24/7 on every sports channel.

I see alot of Brazilians and Spanish people who are very passionate about their soccer in Vancouver as well. Even Germans. When the World Cup comes they have their jerseys on and have their flags on their cars. Even Portuguese fans in Vancouver. Then you see some white dude with a Messi jersey and you know he's just a Messi fan and not an actual fan of Argentina.

That's my take anyways. In Vancouver there seems to be more passion on the Italian side versus other countries and in Toronto and Montreal it may be the same.

[rincon]

Interesting questions.

I can't answer most of those because I'm not north american, I'm south american. In things that relate, my city is extremely full of families with foreign backgrounds. Mostly Italian, Spanish and Portuguese among europeans, plus Colombians, Peruvians and Chileans.

It was almost implicit that you root for Venezuela's national team AND the national team of your heritage, as long as it was an actual part of your life. So you'll see the guy rooting for Vzla in the Copa America and for Italy/Portugal/Spain in the WC.

With such a heavy immigrant community and such recent waves (the post ww2 period filled the city with european immigrants) immigrants retained and brought a lot of their culture into everyone's life. Just as my dad had all these venezuelan traditions, so did my mom with the italian ones. So you ended up with a really multicultural situation.

It wasn't exclusive to the Italian ones though, Portuguese have the same level of "heterogeneity" here. With Spanish it depends on which wave of immigration it was, because for them it has been a constant flow.

[Warrior]

When it comes to the winter olympics everyone feels canadian, all of a sudden

[rincon]

Also with sport I don't think we should be so serious. No one here is from Turin and we all support Juve. Even most Italians who support Juve are not from Turin. Same with NTs, if you like their play, or whatever else about them, then its fine to follow them imo. I assume M99 is not Brazilian but he likes them so who cares?

I have no particular love for Switzerland yet I would like Licht to succeed. He is the same guy I root for every weekend after all.

[Warrior]

For me it was an interesting discussion to read... the impact of sports on patriotism.

I root for Juve first which leads me to follow Serie A and then Italy NT, by default.

[S]

Also with sport I don't think we should be so serious. No one here is from Turin and we all support Juve. Even most Italians who support Juve are not from Turin. Same with NTs, if you like their play, or whatever else about them, then its fine to follow them imo. I assume M99 is not Brazilian but he likes them so who cares?

I have no particular love for Switzerland yet I would like Licht to succeed. He is the same guy I root for every weekend after all.

No nothing serious. I myself grew up supporting a National team(Italy) but as the time has gone by , I have started to realize that supporting a National team when I have no connection to that country whatsoever in every aspect, is not for me. Just my perspective. Is this a sign of me becoming nationalistic myself ? I don't know, perhaps.

Club football is a bit different as it's a business now and the target audience are mainly foreign fans. Without them , football wouldn't be a multi billion dollar industry as it is today. So in that respect , a foreign fan would feel more 'welcomed' to cheer for a team.

People are free to follow what they want but I just gave my side of things. No harm intended.

[RealGunner]

Would be interesting how different views would be if countries like Canada were top 3 and Italy 250th in world ranking

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