Fallout 76

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:43 pm

Glad people are finally on the bandwagon I've been on since Oblivion.

They've always been a bunch of frauds who for some reason have consistently had excuses made for them for years for making bad games.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:55 pm

The people in this video make me laugh though.

If you don't like how buggy and glitchy the games are don't buy the games.

This isn't rocket science, the reason they continue to put out half assed products with outdated engines is because you keep supporting them.

Gamers are so thick.
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Post by M99 on Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:53 am

Universally bad games aka games I don't like

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Post by Harmonica on Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:25 am

Love how Todd says with straight face they've more people working on 76 than any game before, when it's just copy&paste. Maybe he's not just straight up lying, but just deceiving as they put everybody on it like a week before the release? Laughing I mean the fan made Morrowind multiplayer TES3MP works so much better than this shit.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:26 am

@M99 wrote:Universally bad games aka games I don't like


Ok let's see.

Games which run badly, games which has poor writing, animations, gameplay, quest design, character design etc etc.

They're literally the only developer on the planet who got away with so much meh because of exceptional world building.
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Post by Harmonica on Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:09 pm

Bethesda's world building is mediocre, always have been, well FO4 has decent vanilla world. Modding support is the reason for their success, and freedom to rp. Another thing they've always done well is soundtrack.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:19 pm

@Harmonica wrote:Bethesda's world building is mediocre, always have been, well FO4 has decent vanilla world. Modding support is the reason for their success, freedom to rp and hype for Morrowind over Gothic 2, which back then was a much better game. Another thing they've always done well is soundtrack.


I wanted to praise the one thing that IMO i always like about their games.

I don't disagree though, what ever you consider it world building, freedom to immerse yourself in cool worlds etc.

But i would say whatever that is, it's really the only thing which isn't massively behind the competition.

I don't particularly think the criticisms i laid it in the previous post is particularly controversial though.
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Post by Harmonica on Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:26 pm

Freedom to immerse comes also from the modding support, and mods themselves. If there was no modding support, nobody would play Skyrim anymore, but now it's still relevant after 7 years and has the best modding scene to keep it relevant. People are hooked on the franchise and continue to talk and dream about the next part of the game. Same goes for Morrowind with Tamriel Rebuilt and Oblivion with Better Cities and Unique Landscapes which make the games relevant even today. Tale of Two Wastelands integrates F03 and FONV, Fallout New California just got into beta and so on...

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:45 pm

That's fair, i of course will never understand it because i just come from a different world and never really experienced modding much less ever had the desire for it.
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Post by Bellabong on Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:54 pm

Just the voice activated skyrim mod revived the game entirely for me

I'm not talking about the dragonshout, the one where you read out the dialogue option you want and the game selects and picks it.

TBH if Bethesda put that in TES6 people will still be hooked and buy it

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Post by Firenze on Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:59 pm

It's widely regarded for Bethesda that their best is Morrowind, right? (calma Harmonica) so I never really played it to judge them on that..however yeah, they're overrated because while they have these huge worlds, the decent writing is isolated to basically a couple hours spent in them (for me, always found I enjoyed Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood, the latter mostly in Oblivion) out of like 60-100. That's unacceptable, the world building has indeed always been utterly garbage. I never felt rewarded for exploring really. Their worlds were alive, yet dead. It's odd.

Always found them to be a quantity over quality type dev when it came to their open worlds.

And it has to be something on a company level, because people have said (and I only put 20 hrs in so I don't remember enough) that Fallout New Vegas was amazing, and that used their game engine. Just had a better developer behind it. They need a new direction and an overhaul in staff I guess. But they seem to be heading in the wrong direction especially after this debacle.
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Post by Harmonica on Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:59 pm

And I understand why you hate them and I agree on your points, because for consoles there's not much else going on for them, other than freedom to rp which is one of their strong points. Another thing I hate about Bethesda is their ongoing streamlining of their game series, to make them more console friendly, and same time more boring with less freedom. From 35 skills that Daggerfall had, to simple perks system of F04. So god knows what they (Zenimax) have planned for TESVI so they can make more money for less work. I can only hope that FO76 fails miserably, backlash is so huge that they get back onto their strong points of the games and stop fucking streamlining them.

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Post by M99 on Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:01 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
@M99 wrote:Universally bad games aka games I don't like


Ok let's see.

Games which run badly, games which has poor writing, animations, gameplay, quest design, character design etc etc.

They're literally the only developer on the planet who got away with so much meh because of exceptional world building.


Those are not cold hard facts like you are spouting, thats your opinion. You hated Breath Of The Wild and they made the game a lot like Elder Scrolls/Fallout, those type of games are just not for you. Gamers who think otherwise are not "blind supporters"

Also I hope 76 flops like hell, they need to ditch MMOs and stick to what they do best.

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Post by Harmonica on Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:04 pm

@Bellabong wrote:Just the voice activated skyrim mod revived the game entirely for me

I'm not talking about the dragonshout, the one where you read out the dialogue option you want and the game selects and picks it.

TBH if Bethesda put that in TES6 people will still be hooked and buy it
Yeah I can see them introducing this. How's it working btw, does it fail to recognize a lot?

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:12 pm

@Firenze wrote:the world building has indeed always been utterly garbage. I never felt rewarded for exploring really. Their worlds were alive, yet dead. It's odd.

.


OK the thing is because i agree with this, maybe world building isn't the right term.

They design great worlds but when i explore i just don't care, part of it is because what's there to care about? Pointless designing great worlds if you care about nobody in it.

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Post by Harmonica on Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:14 pm

@Firenze wrote:It's widely regarded for Bethesda that their best is Morrowind, right? (calma Harmonica) so I never really played it to judge them on that..however yeah, they're overrated because while they have these huge worlds, the decent writing is isolated to basically a couple hours spent in them (for me, always found I enjoyed Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood, the latter mostly in Oblivion) out of like 60-100. That's unacceptable, the world building has indeed always been utterly garbage. I never felt rewarded for exploring really. Their worlds were alive, yet dead. It's odd.

Always found them to be a quantity over quality type dev when it came to their open worlds.

And it has to be something on a company level, because people have said (and I only put 20 hrs in so I don't remember enough) that Fallout New Vegas was amazing, and that used their game engine. Just had a better developer behind it. They need a new direction and an overhaul in staff I guess. But they seem to be heading in the wrong direction especially after this debacle.
I would say so, at least on average for everyone who played every instalment. True Oblivion had the best vanilla guest lines, and introduced dynamic world and physics engine, which why it was revolutionary at the time. Well if you didn't play Gothic 3 that is. eco smile Skyrim didn't really introduce anything new, just streamlined the game with slightly updated effects. Funny example would be the mage guild. In Oblivion you had to freaking persuade every guild hall and do some favors for them, before being accepted, and then it felt like you accomplished something. To Skyrim's, pay 30 gold for a spell, and get 500 worth of gold in clothes in addition to acceptance to the guild.  Laughing

I would say though, that lore too is their strong point, at least for TES as it's freaking huge, although somewhat inconsistent. There's books in Morrowind that are almost novel size. And you know who wrote those, the modders. If I remember correctly they were mods for Daggerfall and Bethesda integrated those on Morrowind.


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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:15 pm

@M99 wrote:
@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
@M99 wrote:Universally bad games aka games I don't like


Ok let's see.

Games which run badly, games which has poor writing, animations, gameplay, quest design, character design etc etc.

They're literally the only developer on the planet who got away with so much meh because of exceptional world building.


Those are not cold hard facts like you are spouting, thats your opinion. You hated Breath Of The Wild and they made the game a lot like Elder Scrolls/Fallout, those type of games are just not for you. Gamers who think otherwise are not "blind supporters"

Also I hope 76 flops like hell, they need to ditch MMOs and stick to what they do best.


You seriously think those things are objectively good? The only thing there i think is debatable there is quest design.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:20 pm

Also the gamers in that video are blind supporters lol.

The things they were complaining about (well except the story stuff not existing) are issues with Fallout 4 and Skyrim too yet they continue to line up and buy the games just to complain about how it's still buggy.
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Post by Harmonica on Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:28 pm

Agree on Skyrim, but it got fixed pretty quickly, although mostly by modders. F04 however was decent on the release if I remember correctly, nothing like 76. Also the people in the video are streamers I think, who get games free and money for playing them.

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Post by Harmonica on Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:49 pm

On world design, PB have always had the best designed world in freeroam rpg's. Gothic 3 was an awe inspiring, although they got fucked by the publisher so hard that it ended the series. Elex or W3 probably have the best fantasy world desing to date, or KCD for real life. If Elex had good combat it would probably be the best freeroam rpg to date, as it has everything else going for, great story, dynamic world, good skill system, choices and consequences and replay value. Which brings me to the next point. W3 doesn't have good combat either, it has worse even broken skill/perk system, and less dynamic world and yet it's considered masterpiece by casuals and Elex some euro junk. W3 has the best story, but that doesn't make it the best "game", but hype can make or break any game...

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:56 pm

That would make sense lol, my bad.
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Post by Kaladin on Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:58 pm

I'm hyped for Starfield because i love Scifi and i'm hoping it can be what Mass Effect was to me..hopefully it doesn't disappoint, thats the last straw for me


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Post by Bellabong on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:04 pm

Bethesda's best is Morrowind and that's because of the writing + the actual depth (how you swung your weapon and what weapon type it was mattered etc.)

Don't know how you're remembering FO4 Harmonica but it was a complete shitshow on release. The increasing complexity exposed the engine once we hit FO3 and Skyrim and Fallout 4 was an even bigger disaster on release (and actually still is without community fixes) THE SAME GDMN GOD RAY THROUGH TERRAIN BUG I HAD IS IN FALLOUT 76

One of the most telling things for me when I got far enough into modding to edit mods is that the beginners guide points out some easy to overlook mistakes that beginners make that you need to avoid. Bethesda's own core files have wild edits, conflicting overrides and identical to master records.

Yes, in order to have a stable modded Skyrim you have to clean up Bethesda's shit yourself. (Can't distribute the clean files since they are core game files) It's easier nowadays since it's semi-automated but that should tell you about how much care Bethesda's programmers actually put in their games.

Same story with Fallout 4, by this time modders have concluded that Bethesda simply doesn't care and it's not just an oversight. Bethesda has been in milk the customers mode ever since the Horse Armour DLC. The paid mods for Skyrim are a complete joke and pale in quality to what can be found on the Nexus or LoversLab

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Henry wrote:"“Stepovers, tricks, that’s not the game. The game is what Thomas Muller is doing. If I had a son right now, playing, I would say to him ‘look at them, look at [Franck] Ribery, look at Muller.’ What Ronaldo does, and Messi, they’re just freaks. Don’t try to copy those guys. You can copy from Ribery, you can copy from Thomas Muller. What he did at the World Cup, people don’t talk about it. They don’t talk about it, but they should talk about it. He plays the game the right way: he defends, he attacks, he controls the ball when he has to control it, he reverses when he has to reverse it. When he has to finish, he’ll finish. He doesn’t do stepovers, but when he has to perform, he performs. He does what the game asks him to do.”"

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Post by Harmonica on Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:26 pm

For me FO4 was the most stable of any Bethesda release, and I've done probably 3 playthroughs without issues that I would remember, it's been year or two since last time though. The dirty official plugins are strange things, as why in earth wouldn't they fix those. Although I don't notice on a lot of difference in stability since SE, dirty or clean.

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Post by Harmonica on Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:52 pm

In relation FO76 has sold 82,4% less than FO4. https://wccftech.com/fallout-76-sold-less-fallout-4/

Hopefully that'll be enough to scare Zenimax's milking habits, at least the backlash should be enough.

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Post by Kaladin on Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:08 pm


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